alu to carbon ?

stronginthesun
stronginthesun Posts: 433
edited January 2010 in Road beginners
going from a £1000 alu framed bike to a £1600 carbon frame bike . will i tell a differance ? components are equal .

Comments

  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,442
    The feel is likely to be different (probably less vibration as carbon smooths this out a bit) but it's unlikely you'll find it any quicker if that's what you mean. Depends on the from / to bike to be honest, may be lighter. What would make more difference to how it feels though is the geometry of the relative frames.
  • GavH
    GavH Posts: 933
    What Pross said - depends on the bike you're upgrading from and to.

    I went from a cheap Alu frame to a decent carbon Bianchi and the difference was very noticeable, but the whole component range and wheelset was a significant step up as well just the frame. The difference would have almost certainly been less tangible if I had a better Alu bike to begin with.
  • STEFANOS4784
    STEFANOS4784 Posts: 4,109
    I went from a cheap-ish Alu frame to a decent-ish carbon Kuota and the difference was very noticeable, but the whole component range other than wheelset was a step up as well just the frame.

    :wink:
    winter beast: http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr34 ... uff016.jpg
    Summer beast; http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr34 ... uff015.jpg
  • mattward1979
    mattward1979 Posts: 692
    From a Spesh alu with carbon forks, to a raleigh Avanti U6 carbon fork and rear, I notice a HUGE difference.
    Enough dampening to even say that it takes away some of the feel of the road, that need some getting used to!! Feels like I slide a bit from the rear now, with the front rock solid.
    exercise.png
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    This carbon dampening thing is largely a myth in my experience unless you've gone with a flexy CFRP frame
    I like bikes...

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  • blorg
    blorg Posts: 1,169
    I went from an aluminium to a carbon Trek, same groupset, finishing kit, geometry. There was a phenomenal difference in ride comfort. Another friend who moved from aluminium to carbon (swapping frame, same everything else) had the same experience. It's not a myth. It is more difficult to compare between completely different bikes but all 3 of the carbon road bikes I've had had decent road noise damping... My ti bikes share this but I wouldn't say they were any better.

    @reddraggon- all carbon bikes are "CFRP." Carbon fibre by itself is a fabric, you wouldn't get a bike out of that without the plastic bit. The carbon reinforces the plastic.
  • bill57
    bill57 Posts: 454
    redddraggon wrote:
    This carbon dampening thing is largely a myth in my experience unless you've gone with a flexy CFRP frame
    I'm always impressed by the way carbon frames and forks are so stiff that they provide great power transfer, yet somehow manage to absorb vibration and the oft quoted "road buzz". A wonder material indeed, though flying somewhat into the face of physics.
  • mattward1979
    mattward1979 Posts: 692
    redddraggon wrote:
    This carbon dampening thing is largely a myth in my experience unless you've gone with a flexy CFRP frame

    From my rather limited experience I would still say that I know enough to refute this...

    One thing about my spesh that I liked was the lack of vibration up my arms, yet the very solid grounded feel on my rear end...
    With the read carbon, I can definitely feel a detatchment from the contours of the road.. im sure Ill get used to it but for the moment its kinda weird to feel like your not actually attached to anyting with either wheel!
    exercise.png
  • bill57
    bill57 Posts: 454
    Engineers have been using rubber bushes to absorb vibration for decades, and I don't think a switch to carbon fibre is imminent.
  • blorg
    blorg Posts: 1,169
    bill57 wrote:
    Engineers have been using rubber bushes to absorb vibration for decades, and I don't think a switch to carbon fibre is imminent.
    I'm sure a bike made out of rubber would have better vibration damping qualities than carbon. I think it might be compromised in other areas though.

    Do you have a carbon bike Bill that you speak from experience?
  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    Don't Specialized put rubber in their carbon frames and forks? Zertz, or something?
  • balthazar
    balthazar Posts: 1,565
    blorg wrote:
    @reddraggon- all carbon bikes are "CFRP." Carbon fibre by itself is a fabric, you wouldn't get a bike out of that without the plastic bit. The carbon reinforces the plastic.
    I think RD knows this. He's in material science, or some such.

    Also, there's been something approximate to a discussion on this subject going on concurrently on "Buying Advice":

    http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12675202
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    blorg wrote:
    @reddraggon- all carbon bikes are "CFRP." Carbon fibre by itself is a fabric, you wouldn't get a bike out of that without the plastic bit. The carbon reinforces the plastic.

    If you are going to be like that.....

    WTF is plastic!!!!!

    It's a resin or polymer, only n00bs call polymers plastic
    I like bikes...

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  • Brindy
    Brindy Posts: 45
    I think the biggest feeling will that it much stiffer so feels faster and more responsive
  • blorg
    blorg Posts: 1,169
    redddraggon wrote:
    It's a resin or polymer, only n00bs call polymers plastic
    Fair enough, I quite like the conceit that an expensive frame is "made out of plastic" though :)
  • blorg
    blorg Posts: 1,169
    alfablue wrote:
    Don't Specialized put rubber in their carbon frames and forks? Zertz, or something?
    They do, I have a Specialized fork on one bike and a seatpost on another one. The fork is on a bike with 700x35c tyres so I don't think you would notice much there with the amount of damping the tyres would be doing already.

    I thought the seatpost, on a 700x23c bike, maybe added a bit to comfort over an aluminium one but I'd say it was marginal. Much more subtle than the frame change. Could certainly put that one down to my imagination.
  • blorg
    blorg Posts: 1,169
    Brindy wrote:
    I think the biggest feeling will that it much stiffer so feels faster and more responsive
    I've had aluminium frames that were very stiff and responsive... my experience with the Trek was if anything the opposite, the aluminium bike felt very direct and stiff but it also shook me to bits (relatively speaking to the carbon.)

    Of course frames will differ so it is difficult to say, results may vary depending on what the two frames you are comparing are. I have also had relatively flexy aluminium and carbon can be built to be extremely stiff also.
  • mattward1979
    mattward1979 Posts: 692
    whoa there tigers!!!

    Sans Scientific materials degree, my experience is that carbon on the front feels nice, and carbon on the front nad back feels nicer but with a bit less "feel" tracton wise.

    The atomic science behind it is WAY beyond me, and im sure way beyond the OP.
    exercise.png
  • sandbag
    sandbag Posts: 429
    Carbon is a stiffer outright. It be stiffer, especially around the BB area which is better for power transfer. It also be stiffer due to no lug joints.

    Carbon dampening is due to the epoxy glue between the sheets of carbon.
  • Steve_b77
    Steve_b77 Posts: 1,680
    I too have a Raleigh U6 avec carbon rear end, it's certainly very comfortable to ride.

    It's nicer tham my allez was, kinda feels like riding a steel MTB
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    bill57 wrote:
    Engineers have been using rubber bushes to absorb vibration for decades, and I don't think a switch to carbon fibre is imminent.
    engineers are also now using carbon fibre to make large commercial airliners. they chose materials carefully for the purpose.
  • Bugly
    Bugly Posts: 520
    to OP - it depends on the build of the frame and how the carbon tubing is wrapped, how many wraps etc. Having said that you should find the carbon frame to be lighter, (generally) more comfortable and to be more efficient in delivering your input to the rear wheel. I would NOT buy a alloy road bike anymore, they are on the decline like steel frames were 20 years ago.
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    Bugly wrote:
    to OP - it depends on the build of the frame and how the carbon tubing is wrapped, how many wraps etc. Having said that you should find the carbon frame to be lighter, (generally) more comfortable and to be more efficient in delivering your input to the rear wheel. I would NOT buy a alloy road bike anymore, they are on the decline like steel frames were 20 years ago.
    worrying now about all the scare mongering about bombing down a hill and the bike cracking in half .have you had any break.
  • blorg
    blorg Posts: 1,169
    rake wrote:
    worrying now about all the scare mongering about bombing down a hill and the bike cracking in half .have you had any break.
    It's generally stronger than lightweight alloys. I have written off a carbon frame in a crash but I am sure an alloy frame would have been the same, probably worse. I have seen other people's stuff break but alloy at least as much as carbon.
  • Bugly
    Bugly Posts: 520
    AS Blorg says Carbon is thin and light and STRONG better tensile strength for a given weight then steel and allloy. Going back to the early carbon frames there were more failures but that was in lugged carbon frames at the lug - ie the glue failed not the carbon. I havent ridden a lugged carbon frame but I suspect such failures are as rare as hens teeth. I cant see a well made C frame failing under a loads that would not cause Al or Steel frames to fail.

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