"Roads are for cars, not lycra louts"

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Hey, I said I was in two minds, not a concrete for or against.
I had assumed that our "road tax" was meant to cover the vast majority of road maintenance though.

Nowhere near the costs of providing all highway facilities, including emergency services, maintenance, building new roads, putting in new design features to take into account driver stupidities, etc. I'm afraid

As for cyclists killing other people, fair enough, not many kill other road users. However, how many cyclists are to blame for their own deaths due to irresponsible riding? I'd wager it's far higher.

Government survey showed about 65% of bike/MV collisions were drivers fault. A later AA (yup, them) survey put it higher, at about 70%.

Anyway, I pay VED like all drivers, only the bicycle is a zero emission vehicle, so I pay nowt'

I was always led to believe its the other way round, that the amount collected from VED far exceeds the amount actually spent on roads. Admittedly I've never sought any figures out.

When you add up the cost of road building/maintenance, the cost of policing the roads, the cost of treating accident vicitms and clearing up (the police reckon it costs £750K to sort out each fatal accident - and there are the best part of 3,000 of them a year), the illness caused by traffic pollution etc. you'll find that VED and fuel duty don't nearly cover it. Non-motorists actually subsidise motorists.

And, from some remarks above, apparently we do still have the death penalty in this country for the offence of "cycling like a tw*t". No trial required.

yeehaamcgee wrote:

See, I'm in two minds about this. As much as I wish our roads were safer, and that cars paid more attention to cyclists, I also realise that it's the car owners who foot the largest part of the bill for building and maintaining roads. Also, I see a lot of dangerous, or just plain ignorant cyclists, even out here in the countryside.

How do you work that out? Council tax pays the vast majority of highway repairs. VED goes into the general coffers, some may make it back into roads but will be trunk roads and motorways which we generally aren't cycling on plus most cyclists will also be motorists so it doesn't wash. Where else are we supposed to ride? We legally can't ride on the footway, cycleways are generally crap, cyclelanes on the road are shared with buses and taxis and get you just as much stick. Until we end up with nationwide long distance cycle only routes most of us are going to be on the road as it's the only choice!

Porgy wrote:

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Hey, I said I was in two minds, not a concrete for or against.
I had assumed that our "road tax" was meant to cover the vast majority of road maintenance though.

As for cyclists killing other people, fair enough, not many kill other road users. However, how many cyclists are to blame for their own deaths due to irresponsible riding? I'd wager it's far higher.

It's just a distraction from the important argument though - that roads though funded by all of us seem to be geared up for motorists above all; and that (just occasionally at least) cyclists get killed by motorists while not doing anything wrong - and anyway this same judgemental attitude is never levelled at motorists for whom we seem to be bending over backwards to protect on the roads.

Also that all of us to some extent are having to make compromises for poor driving and lack of focus by powers that be on cycling issues.

Well said. It's a shame that any discussion about bike in the mainstream media is grounded in the assumption that drivers own the roads and the damage they cause is acceptable, whereas cyclists are menaces. Objectively it just makes no sense at all.

Seeing as the article is about cycling on Australian roads, there may be socio-econimic differences that influence opinion to road cyclists.

If anything the Aussies seem even more militant and aggressive than UK motorists.

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Pross wrote:

How do you work that out? Council tax pays the vast majority of highway repairs. VED goes into the general coffers, some may make it back into roads but will be trunk roads and motorways which we generally aren't cycling on plus most cyclists will also be motorists so it doesn't wash. Where else are we supposed to ride? We legally can't ride on the footway, cycleways are generally crap, cyclelanes on the road are shared with buses and taxis and get you just as much stick. Until we end up with nationwide long distance cycle only routes most of us are going to be on the road as it's the only choice!

GIVE IT A FRICKING REST.
I was mistaken, as has been pointed out over and over and over.
I'd love to run you over if I saw you on the road :roll:

PMT time is it? Come and try anytime if you think running cyclists over is fun

Down in Monmouthshire BTW apologies I somehow missed your earlier responses. Yes, motorists are ripped off to pay for everything other than better roads!

Only available on weekends sorry. Just to warn you though, it may do me some damage but with the amount of excess weight I'm carrying I wouldn't count on your car being useable again!

I can guess, I've seen the battered pick ups you all drive around up in Gogland

clanton wrote:

If anything the Aussies seem even more militant and aggressive than UK motorists.

To be fair,the majority of Aussies are descendants of our castoffs/criminals shipped out etc,so you can expect such behaviour!
Not too sure of the attraction people find in emigrating there,unless you like it so mind numbingly hot you have to go training at 5am. :shock:

yeehaamcgee wrote:

See, I'm in two minds about this. As much as I wish our roads were safer, and that cars paid more attention to cyclists, I also realise that it's the car owners who foot the largest part of the bill for building and maintaining roads. Also, I see a lot of dangerous, or just plain ignorant cyclists, even out here in the countryside.

Even if VED paid for roads it still wouldn't be the case.
The cost of an LGV VED disc probably out weighs it at £1,850 for a Bang G 12 month disc

Get outta my way Hummvee I paid nearly 5x more VED than you.

bloody hell, does no-one actually read threads these days?

I KNOW! I was mistaken, and have been corrected. Several times over by now. If you'd read the bastard thread you'd be aware of this.