Dura-ace chainwheel failure

Turnbull2000
Turnbull2000 Posts: 189
edited August 2009 in Workshop
After 2 years of use, this happened today on my Trek Madone 5.9...

http://www.paulturnbull.co.uk/Images/Bike/PICT0001.JPG
http://www.paulturnbull.co.uk/Images/Bike/PICT0005.JPG

Looks like it shattered to due to internal corrosion. Am I looking at a whole new crankset here?

:(

Comments

  • Rockhopper
    Rockhopper Posts: 503
    Looking at Shimanos parts lists suggests that that bit of the chainset doesn't have a part number which usually means its not available as a spare part!
    I think i'd be speaking to the dealer about it though as it shouldn't fail like that.
  • crankycrank
    crankycrank Posts: 1,830
    Check with a machinist. They may be able to make and fit a new axle made of better quality and thicker walled (and gasp!!! slightly heavier) stronger tubing which won't corrode.
  • Rockhopper
    Rockhopper Posts: 503
    I think the axle is one piece with the spider - when you look at the exploded diagram they don't appear to come apart anyhow!
  • jrduquemin
    jrduquemin Posts: 791
    Better buy a new one dude, that looks screwed!!!
    2010 Lynskey R230
    2013 Yeti SB66
  • scherrit
    scherrit Posts: 360
    Hmmm,
    it's toast, get a new one.... a bit of oil/waxy stuff down the middle may have saved it? Did you fall off?
    S.
    If you're as fat as me, all bikes are bendy.
  • balthazar
    balthazar Posts: 1,565
    It doesn't look like corrosion caused that, but it's hard to tell: the broken part is blurred and facing away from the camera..! It would be interesting to see a focused (macro?) picture of the broken edge.

    Either way, I'm sure everybody else is right - that axle doesn't look replaceable.
  • Doesn't seem possible to get the the crank arm alone. The arm that broke is 172.5mm, but I've seen a 170mm crankset available second hand in good condition for £120. Surely there'll be no real difference with 2.5mm?
  • ride_whenever
    ride_whenever Posts: 13,279
    no difference that you'll notice...

    it's allunminium isn't it? Shouldn't corrode.
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    The spindle is steel and is integrated into the arm - there are no user-replaceable parts. Suspect that failure was due to a combination of fatigue and corrosion - you'd need the opinion of a materials specialist to say whether it's due to defective manufacture. Chainrings are well worn, so probably time to buy a new one. The cranks must have been really creaking before it went?
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • crankycrank
    crankycrank Posts: 1,830
    I'm not positive but I believe the spindle is pressed and/or bonded to the crank. Two different pieces of metal. That is why I think you should ask a machinists' opinion as to weather it's possible to make a new spindle. Not only will it be cheaper but possibly a stronger replacement can be made. Bicycle manufacturers are always looking for ways to save a few grams on parts sometimes at the expense of durability. Most crankshafts in car engines use pressed in pins to hold them together so there are people out there able to do such things and in the case of a bicycle crank would be considered a very low stress part compared to something producing 300+hp. As for replacing the 172.5mm arm with a 170mm. I think some people may not notice but most probably would. I sure can tell the difference between different length cranks and wouldn't want to use a different size.
  • scherrit
    scherrit Posts: 360
    A bike crank would be considered a high stress part as a human generates close to as much torque as an average 2 litre petrol engine. higher hp/wattage for the petrol engine is made up by turning a lot faster than a bike crank, but forces from a human are surprisingly high, and your DA equipment is more Ferrari than toyota in terms of over-design.

    Buy a new one.
    Good luck,
    S.
    If you're as fat as me, all bikes are bendy.
  • crankycrank
    crankycrank Posts: 1,830
    scherrit wrote:
    A bike crank would be considered a high stress part as a human generates close to as much torque as an average 2 litre petrol engine. higher hp/wattage for the petrol engine is made up by turning a lot faster than a bike crank, but forces from a human are surprisingly high, and your DA equipment is more Ferrari than toyota in terms of over-design.

    Buy a new one.
    Good luck,
    S.

    Agreed about the high stress but nowhere near the stress that an engine spinning at 5,000+ RPM, pushing 2,000+Lbs of weight, developing 120+ horsepower and generating huge amounts of heat can produce. Not to mention that a car crankshaft is expected to last well over 120,000 miles of this. In any case the point is that small engine shops have the capability to do a similar job as what is needed for your crankset. Why waste an expensive, repairable crank without checking out a fix that may be an improvement over the old spindle?
  • rockmount
    rockmount Posts: 761
    If you really really wanted to know why it failed, you could send the broken spindle end (easier than the complete crank) to me. Could do failure analysis on it. It's what we do. 8)
    .. who said that, internet forum people ?
  • will3
    will3 Posts: 2,173
    Looks like a fatigue failure to me, but a picture of the broken surface would make it obvious.
  • rockmount
    rockmount Posts: 761
    will3 wrote:
    Looks like a fatigue failure to me, but a picture of the broken surface would make it obvious.

    So long as you have your camera attached to one of these, that's what we usually use to determine failure modes in metal components >>

    06.jpg
    .. who said that, internet forum people ?
  • will3
    will3 Posts: 2,173
    rockmount wrote:
    will3 wrote:
    Looks like a fatigue failure to me, but a picture of the broken surface would make it obvious.

    So long as you have your camera attached to one of these, that's what we usually use to determine failure modes in metal components >>

    06.jpg

    really? seems a bit OTT to me, fatigue failures in hardened materials usually leave signs pretty obvious to the naked eye, eg polished area of original crack followed by 45dedgree fast fracture area etc etc. Imean, sure, to be absolutely certain, but given the highly cyclic loading etc, you'd be in with a good chance of being right just by looking at it.
  • rockmount
    rockmount Posts: 761
    ...and you'd be able to determine the cause of fatigue initiation, not to mention counting striations with the naked eye to determine cycles to failure etc ?
    .. who said that, internet forum people ?
  • will3
    will3 Posts: 2,173
    rockmount wrote:
    ...and you'd be able to determine the cause of fatigue initiation, not to mention counting striations with the naked eye to determine cycles to failure etc ?

    Did I say I could?
    No merely fatigue failure/not fatigue failure. Sure your microscope will spot the inclusion, void, or what have you that might have been the root cause.
  • Rockhopper
    Rockhopper Posts: 503
    I'd still be going back to my dealer with it - a chainset shouldn't fail like that after two years use.
    Getting a new one made and pressed in would probably cost more than a new chainset from Shimano - someone would have to do a very accurate drawing of it first.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Rockhopper wrote:
    I'd still be going back to my dealer with it - a chainset shouldn't fail like that after two years use.
    Getting a new one made and pressed in would probably cost more than a new chainset from Shimano - someone would have to do a very accurate drawing of it first.

    +1 I doubt getting it fixed is an option. Now warranty, I'd see about that and I'm sure Shimano would be very interested in the broken one(quality control and all that).
    Just a guess on my part but I would say it was a freak defect and not something that happens with any regularity.
  • 4candles
    4candles Posts: 240
    After 2 years of use, this happened today on my Trek Madone 5.9...

    http://www.paulturnbull.co.uk/Images/Bike/PICT0001.JPG
    http://www.paulturnbull.co.uk/Images/Bike/PICT0005.JPG

    Looks like it shattered to due to internal corrosion. Am I looking at a whole new crankset here?

    :(

    Contact Madison the main importer, see what they can do...