Energy drinks - the differences...

IanTrcp wrote:

Is there some reason why PSP is useable in much higher concentrations than Torq?
Are there other products like PSP that can provide many kCals/bottle?
Is all of this science or mainly marketing?

There's no reason the Torq products cannot be used at higher concentrations, the ingredients are much the same, and you can almost certainly digest them at 15% or more. Simple sugar drinks are generally (depends on the individual of course) only digestible up to 6%, maltodextrin, and malto+fructose are digestible up to 15% or more.

IanTrcp wrote:

How do you get enough carbs on long rides (say 7hrs+)?

Any ride that long will have to be done at such an easy pace relative to your maximum, that's your body will be digest anything easily, there's no reason to take Sport Drinks other than convenience (and cost if you make your own sport drink) you could probably eat a roast dinner and digest it without discomfort. So as someone said, it regular food. Especially as with time of that duration, adding in both Fat and Protein to the food is probably a very good idea.

For the Marmotte, there's really no way you can be self sufficient in both water and calories, you'd be carrying way too much! What you could do is make a bottle of energy paste - a mix of malto/protein/fructose in a bottle at about 80%, and then take this paste with water to wash it down with regularly, that will allow you to carry a lot of calories, but you will still need to rely on water from outside sources. You should also look at solid foods though, Energy Bars, carry a lot more bang for their weight, and on a 7 hour ride, you should be able to eat them comfortably.

Pianoman - Choline is believed to be something to deal with neuro-muscular fatigue (the brain can no longer send the signals to activate the muscles) and I don't know of any evidence that it helps you "burn fat". And caffeine in sufficient doses to help "burn fat", research suggests is much better done with a pre-ride dose a few times the size of what's provided in the drink.

I have recently discovered hammer nutrition, pretty good stuff it seems, pricey but you get what you pay for.

Seems a lot of top athletes use this

http://www.hammernutritionuk.co.uk/

One of their drinks includes fatty acids and protein – see below

Perpetuem - This newer product takes the concept of long-distance fueling to the max. We designed it primarily for extreme endurance events lasting about six hours to many days. Perpetuem contains 75% carbohydrates (from long-chain maltodextrins—no added simple sugars), 13% fatty acids from a specially made long-chain lyso-lecithin, and nearly 10% soy protein. A small portion of fat seems to cue your body to more liberally release its fatty acids stores, which account for up to 70% of one's energy requirements in long bouts of exercise. A little fat in the fuel also slightly slows the rate of digestion and thus promotes “caloric satisfaction,” another attractive plus during primarily aerobic ultra-long distance events. Perpetuem provides maximal benefits at an aerobic pace (under 70% MHR).

IanTrcp wrote:

jibberjim wrote:

There's no reason the Torq products cannot be used at higher concentrations, the ingredients are much the same, and you can almost certainly digest them at 15% or more. Simple sugar drinks are generally (depends on the individual of course) only digestible up to 6%, maltodextrin, and malto+fructose are digestible up to 15% or more.

Hmmmm..... Torq say:

It is not recommended that you mix TORQ energy NATURAL FLAVOURED on its own above 9% carbohydrate or you will overdose on electrolytes, so during cooler weather you can add TORQ energy NATURAL if you want to run a higher concentration.

So it looks like I can add unflavoured Torq to bulk up the carb levels. This sounds like a very interesting avenue to explore, although I wonder why the reference to cooler weather is in there???

Ah sorry, yes, I forgot they pumped their energy drink with electrolytes - not necessary, not helpful, since the number of calories, and the amount of salt you need are not correlated at all. Torq natural unflavoured is nothing but maltodextrin, so please don't buy it from them, it's crazy expensive for a very basic ingredient.

jibberjim wrote:

I forgot they pumped their energy drink with electrolytes - not necessary, not helpful, since the number of calories, and the amount of salt you need are not correlated at all. Torq natural unflavoured is nothing but maltodextrin, so please don't buy it from them, it's crazy expensive for a very basic ingredient.

Torq make a clear distinction between the products with and without electrolytes. If you want half the electrolyte content use it 50/50 with Torq natural (which as you say is plain maltodextrin), as the previous quote from the website suggests.

The flavoured versions have the maltodextrin+fructose carb mix (which is apparently better for CH absorption) as well as the electrolytes. And anyway, who is going to know what the 'right' amount of salt etc is? This isn't the cornerstone of your diet, is it?

It's pretty obvious that the calories in energy drinks will be more easily absorbed than flapjack, particularly during strenuous exercise, as blood that would otherwise be hanging around the stomach and intestine is drawn elsewhere. If you're pedalling less frantically there's no reason why solid foods like banana, raisins, bars, fig rolls or malt loaf couldn't be included. Even pro racers eat 'real' food on long stages, usually when the pace is slower or during long descents.

Amazed at the post ref. the 80 mile ride on water & sandwiches, never again ? I'm lucky if I crack 300 miles a month training but have no probs doing 50-80 miles on Gatorade (no additives), water, bananas & energy bars.
Frankly I wouldn't even consider SIS or any of the other products unless I was going 100km+, which clearly many of you are.
But I see no real need for specialist sports drinks for lower distance rides, and I stress again I am far away from the level of many/most on this Forum.

I'm confused, does that mean that if I'm doing a sportive on a hot day, I need a bottle of energy drink such as PSP and a bottle of Isotonic such as Go? I had assumed that I could use PSP for both carbs and electrolytes?

Takis61 wrote:

Amazed at the post ref. the 80 mile ride on water & sandwiches, never again ? I'm lucky if I crack 300 miles a month training but have no probs doing 50-80 miles on Gatorade (no additives), water, bananas & energy bars.
Frankly I wouldn't even consider SIS or any of the other products unless I was going 100km+, which clearly many of you are.
But I see no real need for specialist sports drinks for lower distance rides, and I stress again I am far away from the level of many/most on this Forum.

Anything over 20 miles and I find there is a noticeable difference using something like High5 or GO. One of my sons was suffering cramps on endurance MTB events above about 20 miles. Started using GO and never had a problem since. Have a number of colleagues with similar experiences

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said we are all different, find out what works for you and stick with it , I didn't and paid the price. I failed to mention that my heart rate monitor battery packed in a while ago and I haven't replaced it yet and I do rely on it to slow me down.