Help - newbie question on a bike I sold...

MankyManning · March 2009

I recently sold a bicycle on ebay, it was an excellent condition road bike, I have literally only ridden it twice and as far as I know it was in perfect condition as it sat in my shed for 3 years (and said so in my auction)
I stated clearly on the auction that it was pickup only. However the winner lived hundreds of miles away in Wales and was going to have to take time off work and drive up to collect it. I offered him the chance to cancel the auction and I would relist without negative feedback if he had made a mistake but he wanted to go through with it.

I then agreed to have the bike couriered to him as they were so far away. He arranged a courier (parcel farce) and I packed up the bike - this in itself was a massive chore involving several trips to a bike shop for old boxes and dismantling the bike for transit.

Anyway he receive the bike about 4 day ago and reported he was happy and it rode really well. I got an email from him today however saying he has found a hairline fracture on the head tube and he wants to return it.

Is this a major problem on a bike? I have asked for a photo but if it is really obvious I am sure I would have noticed it whilst packaging the bike up.

I am very annoyed as I have gone to so much trouble to get it to him, the auction was collection only and he would have been able to inspect it had he picked it up. Also he has been riding around on it for a few days so I don't know if it was caused in transit or whilst he has been riding it or was there already, I only have his word that there is a problem with it.

Matty1235 · March 2009

Thats a tough one. He has ridden it, and you offered no warranty with it. It was collection only, and then you posted it. It sounds like maybe he's trying it on. Did he sign for it damaged, if so you have a claim with the courier. I would e-mail ebay for advice, and what responsibilty you have.?

robmanic1 · March 2009

I think if it's been ridden he's unlucky. His best bet would be to claim damage in transit against the carrier, if he arranged it it's down to him.
He should've checked it thoroughly as soon as it was delivered (I would), to admit to riding it and then claim damage is a bit of a "try-on" I reckon.

dg74 · March 2009

MankyManning wrote:

I recently sold a bicycle on ebay, it was an excellent condition road bike, I have literally only ridden it twice and as far as I know it was in perfect condition as it sat in my shed for 3 years (and said so in my auction)
I stated clearly on the auction that it was pickup only. However the winner lived hundreds of miles away in Wales and was going to have to take time off work and drive up to collect it. I offered him the chance to cancel the auction and I would relist without negative feedback if he had made a mistake but he wanted to go through with it.

I then agreed to have the bike couriered to him as they were so far away. He arranged a courier (parcel farce) and I packed up the bike - this in itself was a massive chore involving several trips to a bike shop for old boxes and dismantling the bike for transit.

Anyway he receive the bike about 4 day ago and reported he was happy and it rode really well. I got an email from him today however saying he has found a hairline fracture on the head tube and he wants to return it.

Is this a major problem on a bike? I have asked for a photo but if it is really obvious I am sure I would have noticed it whilst packaging the bike up.

I am very annoyed as I have gone to so much trouble to get it to him, the auction was collection only and he would have been able to inspect it had he picked it up. Also he has been riding around on it for a few days so I don't know if it was caused in transit or whilst he has been riding it or was there already, I only have his word that there is a problem with it.

The cheeky git, send him packing. It's like buying a new T-shirt and going to the pub in it and spilling a pint on it then taking it back the next day as it's 'marked'.

Stick to your guns, kid.

MankyManning · March 2009

Thanks

Problem is he paid with Paypal so if he complains I am pretty much knackered I think. Paypal tends to side with the Buyer in all cases.

kingrollo · March 2009

Let ebay handle it . If he paid with paypal he has insurance anyway. Other than that tell him to a file an ebay dispute (saves you having to make any decisions)

Jimi_08 · March 2009

I recently had two issues with similar problems, first was me sending an amplifier I sold on ebay using Parcelforce. The item got to the buyer damaged even though it was bubble rapped and well packaged but still worked. So he decided to get the dents hammered out and all was well, though because Parcelforce give insurance with each package they deliver you are covered up to £150 as standard insurance unless you opt higher, its worth reading the claims section if your matter needs to be taken further. My second was I bought some formula disc brakes off ebay stating working perfectly just need bleeding. I thought no probs buy, a formula bleed kit and give it a go as I'd been told the instructions are really helpful. To my amazement the screws by the reservoir had been completely worn away, so the item was not as stated, because the buyer had led me to believe brakes working and they needed a bleed but if you can't bleed them then they can't work, so Paypal refunded me.

Because you stated pick up in your auction that gives the buyer the chance to assess the overall product in this case the bike, so it is at his fault, you also have the option to choose as a drop box i think, refund options if the buyer isn't happy. In your case I think you should inform the seller to chase up with Parcelforce as you have 30 days to make a claim and I think from what you've said its in your favor. if he only noticed it after he'd ridden it a few times and not when received of the item, his loss.

Best thing is if a dispute occurs and you cant come to an agreement, state all the measure you took to aid this buyer considering you stated clearly pick up not deliver, and the fact you had to go out of your way to send this item, (what a good ebayer, dedication), and if a crack occurs after riding then his loss, he should have checked before riding, because now thats in his hands not yours. Had it been on arrival then it would be courier issue. Paypal usually sides on the evidence and from what you have said I would say your favor.

crankycrank · March 2009

I would keep the money and dispute his claim. He accepted the bike, rode it, and so far has not provided you with any photos. He may or may not be trying to be dishonest but he needs to understand that you did your best to insure that the bike was what it was advertised as and there is no way of knowing whether the crack formed after he rode it or when initially recieved. Or,in fact,there is a crack at all. He may never be satisfied and give you negative feedback but unfortunately, that is one of the risks of Ebay. He sounds a bit unreasonable to me having requested you post the bike after stating in the ad that it was pick-up only and you going so far as to offer to cancel the sale with no ill will. You have already done more that would be reasonably expected any seller to do. Good luck to you.

MankyManning · March 2009

Well we came to an agreement about posting it as he was going to drive for several hours to pick it up, so perhaps I should not try and help people out! Definitely a lesson learned there...

He has emailed me a picture and there is a crack there but looking at it I am fairly sure it wasn't there when I posted the bike - I would have noticed it. (I think I have the original high res photos i took when I put the auction up too to show this) Also he has already left me positive feedback shortly after receiving the bike as he was happy then.

cougie · March 2009

To be honest - if you do buy a bike off ebay from a location hundreds of miles away - i dont think you can quibble too much with this. He had a chance to inspect it - said it was ok and now he complains....

k-dog · March 2009

He has emailed me a picture and there is a crack there but looking at it I am fairly sure it wasn't there when I posted the bike - I would have noticed it. (I think I have the original high res photos i took when I put the auction up too to show this) Also he has already left me positive feedback shortly after receiving the bike as he was happy then.

That's important - you have good evidence that it wasn't in that condition when you sold it to him.

It definitely sounds like he's trying it on so I would reply saying that it was in the condition you said it was - and you have pictures to prove it - and that unfortunately you can't take a now used product back.

See what happens.

fast as fupp · March 2009

tell him to fupp off :evil:

giant_man · March 2009

I think you should have let him pick it up definitely. At least you know for future .....

alfablue · March 2009

The buyer may well be acting in good faith, having spotted the crack after riding the bike, however, he really doesn't have a leg to stand on. He will have signed for the parcel, most probably stating it was received in acceptable condition (most couriers have this where the recipient signs). His first claim would be against the courier, however he will have undermined any such claim by signing for the goods and by failing to make a claim immediately. It is quite possible that the damage occurred after he used the bike, but the problem is no one knows for sure, and therefore you cannot be liable. I think you should definitely decline to refund the buyer, albeit in the nicest possible way.

ademort · March 2009

MankyManning wrote:

Well we came to an agreement about posting it as he was going to drive for several hours to pick it up, so perhaps I should not try and help people out! Definitely a lesson learned there...

He has emailed me a picture and there is a crack there but looking at it I am fairly sure it wasn't there when I posted the bike - I would have noticed it. (I think I have the original high res photos i took when I put the auction up too to show this) Also he has already left me positive feedback shortly after receiving the bike as he was happy then.

If you still do have the high-res photos to prove that it was not damaged when you sent it then you are in the clear if you ask me. You sold a bike in good faith and as far as you were concerned it was in full working order.The buyer must have checked the bike out for damage when he recieved it, because that,s what everybody does, (right). He then goes out for a spin or two and then he notices a crack in the frame. I find this story a little hard to believe, and have a feeling that your buyer has probably gone out on the bike, met a few friends who know more about bikes than he does and has probably been told that the bike is not worth the money he paid for it. Out comes something rather heavy, one strategically aimed swipe at the frame and there is your crack.Just wondering, what bike did you sell and how much did you sell it for, if you don,t mind me asking.I think paypal will look very favourably at your case, if they get involved. At the end of the day you sold the bike as pick up only. What idiot would sell a bike as pick up only when they know that there is a crack in the head tube.

Ademort

tmg · March 2009

I was watching the Gadget show earlier tonight and they were flogging old gadgets.

Basically for second hand stuff you have to follow two rules:
1. It has to be yours to sell
2. Needs to be as described

By the sounds of it he hasn't got a leg to stand on if you have a date stamped photo of the bike showing no damage. They also said that by buying things second hand you as the buyer are taking more of the risk of the product failing, hence the cheaper price paid.

So I'd send him the pic and tell him if he wants to pursue it then he can do so via eBAY, but the odds are stacked in your favour

Biscuiteer · March 2009

I've been messed around several times by people wanting to arrange postage for items where I'd clearly stated 'buyer collects' in the item's description. I now scatter the text BUYER COLLECTS ONLY in various different colours and the largest font size I can get away with throughout the description of items I can't post. Most notice it but a few idiots still slip through.

NB: At least empty your Paypal account of cash before he files an ebay dispute - which I think that he can only do 7 or 10 days after the auction ends. You may think that the evidence is stacked in your favour but there's no telling how ebay will view the case.

Help - newbie question on a bike I sold...

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