Performance Aspirations for Joe Average
Comments
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Did you pace your ride with your powermeter?bahzob wrote:* I did 75%, I reckon the guys right at the front do more like 90%.
What is your Functional Threshold Power (if you don't mind sharing the info)?0 -
Your local university's Sports Science Dept can probably determine your VO2 max but it needs to be cycling specific not done on a running treadmill for example.nolf wrote:I have no idea what my VO2 max would be (anywhere i can get it tested?) but I'd like to think with a lot of determination I could eventually become a CAT2 racer. If I can do that I'll be happy!
What natural talents would you need to acheive this?
There's obviously a lot more to getting 2nd Cat than power alone - how to ride in a bunch, how and when to make an effort, how to read a race etc etc etc
This table which Alex has posted before may help - the categories referred to are US racing cats I think, but I guess it translates fairly well:
http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/pow ... ing_v4.xls
You need to know your Functional Threshold Power (FT) [ie your 25 mile TT power output] and your weight.
My figs come out at around 3.6W/kg (270W / 74kg) which translates pretty well to my current blank licence 4th cat status (although I don't ride that many road races)0 -
I'm 19 and idealistic,
don't bully me with truth!"I hold it true, what'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost;
Than never to have loved at all."
Alfred Tennyson0 -
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Bronzie wrote:
Did you pace your ride with your powermeter?bahzob wrote:* I did 75%, I reckon the guys right at the front do more like 90%.
What is your Functional Threshold Power (if you don't mind sharing the info)?
Yes I pace with a powermeter, especially when doing the long climbs in France/Italy.
FTP is 305W for 70kg. (measured doing a 25TT).Martin S. Newbury RC0 -
Interesting - so you are at 4.36W/kg which puts you in "2nd cat" territory according to the chart above which ties in fairly well with the guy in our group who did a similar time to you who was a reasonable 2nd cat roadiebahzob wrote:FTP is 305W for 70kg. (measured doing a 25TT).0 -
A rider I coach did ~ 79-80% FTP on the climbs and was very consistent, losing only 10 watts for Le Alpe. He did ~7:55 with ~ 10-min of stops included.bahzob wrote:* I did 75%, I reckon the guys right at the front do more like 90%.
What's optimal depends on a few factors but anyone pushing 90% has phenomenal power endurance as well as exceptional performance at altitude.
IIRC you seemed to have a greater drop in power from earlier climbs to Le Alpe. Is that right? I've lost the chart.0 -
Bronzie wrote:
Interesting - so you are at 4.36W/kg which puts you in "2nd cat" territory according to the chart above which ties in fairly well with the guy in our group who did a similar time to you who was a reasonable 2nd cat roadiebahzob wrote:FTP is 305W for 70kg. (measured doing a 25TT).
Alas it only puts me in 2nd cat category for 60 minute power, which actually is of limited use in a road race. My 5s and 1 min power is "untrained". Which explains why I am pants at road racing but OK at sportives. Reverse will be true for some riders I guess. Back to OP of this post part of the reason for my poor 5s/1 min is I dont do much training in these zones but also reckon all the postive thinking and training in the world wont make up for lack of genes.Martin S. Newbury RC0 -
Sounds like a time triallist profile.bahzob wrote:Bronzie wrote:
Interesting - so you are at 4.36W/kg which puts you in "2nd cat" territory according to the chart above which ties in fairly well with the guy in our group who did a similar time to you who was a reasonable 2nd cat roadiebahzob wrote:FTP is 305W for 70kg. (measured doing a 25TT).
Alas it only puts me in 2nd cat category for 60 minute power, which actually is of limited use in a road race. My 5s and 1 min power is "untrained". Which explains why I am pants at road racing but OK at sportives. Reverse will be true for some riders I guess. Back to OP of this post part of the reason for my poor 5s/1 min is I dont do much training in these zones but also reckon all the postive thinking and training in the world wont make up for lack of genes.
Where is your 5-min power?0 -
Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
IIRC you seemed to have a greater drop in power from earlier climbs to Le Alpe. Is that right? I've lost the chart.bahzob wrote:* I did 75%, I reckon the guys right at the front do more like 90%.
Right: Glandon 87%, Telegraph 83%, Galibier 75% and ADH 75%. However, getting back to my OP the main reason for dropping off on last 2 climbs was fear of cracking caused by knowledge I had overdone Glandon and other riders warnings.
With hindsight I wish I had been more postive and now seeing ABs figures I will plan to train and ride future such events at 90%.Martin S. Newbury RC0 -
What do you do if you haven't got a power meter or even an HRM?!!! I've gone Old Skool due to lack of money and a family and mortgage.0
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How hard to push can be based upon percieved effort.
However, heart rate monitors are now available from £20ish, and IMHO worth saving for.Rich0 -
skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:What do you do if you haven't got a power meter or even an HRM?!!! I've gone Old Skool due to lack of money and a family and mortgage.
It just takes experience. You should know if you are going too fast, you can feel it. A power meter or HRM can confirm this but it's about learning what your body can do.
Even things like powermeters are not perfect anyway. You might think "I need to do the Glandon at 280W" but if you're not on a great day, holding 280W could ruin you and besides, you will be increasing the power after each hairpin bend and easing at other points, it isn't a solo TT all the time. Not that I'm saying powermeters aren't helpful but really, you can ride well without one, if you haven't got one, then maximise your knowledge of how to ride and make the most if it.0 -
I'm really surprised to be honest. Clearly if you are born with greatly enhanced VO2 max, cardiovascular system, muscular ability etc. then you have the natural potential to be a hugely successful cyclist.
But surely if someone (obviously not with physiological defects) spent the whole of the their early life dedicated 100% to cycling training then they could push their performance up towards elite standard?0 -
Experience counts for a great deal in the Marmotte. Once you have got round once you can at least be prepared next time around. I managed 6:54/=50th in 2007 but didn't ride this year. However, I usually do several alpine sportives in the Alpes each year. These give you far better preparation than anything in the UK & I have done RR & MTB at elite level in both UK & Europe. Racing on the road is fine for the top end stuff & tactics but riding the big alpine cols does not really happen in other than the big Tours. Events such as Challenge Dauphine, Megeve-Mt Blanc, Metropole Sud Isere (Grenoble/La Mure) Vaujany etc all give you the preparation for the Marmotte. Best advice is to enter 1 or 2 of these in advance as part of your programme. This will help you get use to the large international fields, starts, climbs, downhills,weather, altitude, feedzones, food/water etc.The other consideration is to practise your feeding strategy in the other events. This has to work, ask any Ironman triathlete. They put far more emphasis on this part of the event than any (non pro) bike riders i've come across. You need to be eating solids/gels every 15-20 mins + fluids if you are going to get round & match your goal. However, don't waste time at some of the feedzones, if you have a strategy worked out in advance you will not need them all. Without any other assistance I only spent 30secs at the Valloire feed for water on my last Mmot & mixed drink on route. Went through 8 GO gels + bars. All the sports sceince is great in advance but you still need to do the training + the practical experience & knowledge on the day.0
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Why cycling specific and not on a treadmill? Surely the result should be the same?Bronzie wrote:
Your local university's Sports Science Dept can probably determine your VO2 max but it needs to be cycling specific not done on a running treadmill for example.nolf wrote:I have no idea what my VO2 max would be (anywhere i can get it tested?) but I'd like to think with a lot of determination I could eventually become a CAT2 racer. If I can do that I'll be happy!
What natural talents would you need to acheive this?0 -
bahzob wrote:I did 75%, I reckon the guys right at the front do more like 90%.
Won't 90% bring you into the anaerobic zone? To do more than 15 mins at 90% one has to be pretty fit and even then probably couldn't keep it up for more than 45-60 mins, not long enough for some of those climbs.bahzob wrote:Glandon 87%, Telegraph 83%, Galibier 75% and ADH 75% ... With hindsight I wish I had been more postive and now seeing ABs figures I will plan to train and ride future such events at 90%.0 -
Sorry to leap around the posts....I did my training and the Marmotte this year relying on RPE, and I'd say that my RPE monitor (my brain) is now finely tuned. However this didn't stop me making a right balls up of the Marmotte (and suffering a bit at the Highclere in the UK).
I'm clearly doing something wrong in my training for these events, but a year spent without the HRM has I think done me some good - my body and brain are now in sync and if I go back to the HRM and/or use power in the future (not likely this year due to finances) I'll be better placed to interpret it all. I used to ride in fear of the numbers especially on hills! I go much faster uphill without an HRM.0 -
AFAIK (and someone with more knowledge please correct me if I'm wrong) your VO2 max can vary between different excercises (running / cycling / swimming etc) due to the different muscle groups involved in eachknedlicky wrote:Why cycling specific and not on a treadmill? Surely the result should be the same?0 -
Good advice from Bound4Glory0
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knedlicky wrote:bahzob wrote:I did 75%, I reckon the guys right at the front do more like 90%.
Won't 90% bring you into the anaerobic zone? To do more than 15 mins at 90% one has to be pretty fit and even then probably couldn't keep it up for more than 45-60 mins, not long enough for some of those climbs.bahzob wrote:Glandon 87%, Telegraph 83%, Galibier 75% and ADH 75% ... With hindsight I wish I had been more postive and now seeing ABs figures I will plan to train and ride future such events at 90%.
Sorry, maybe some confusion. Talking in power terms where 100% is your best 1 hour pace (e.g. as done in 25TT).Martin S. Newbury RC0 -
RichA wrote:Ken Night wrote:
[I actually think 90% of the population could complete a moderate UK sportive with the right training]
Have to say I doubt this one. Even being kind and excluding all those under 12 and over 70 (say), there are an awful lot of people with disabilities in this country who really wouldn't be able to complete a sportif ... at least not without extreme suffering.0 -
I agree there are some with disabilities that would not be able to complete. Although I have seen amputees completing sportives - amazing.
The orginal point was really that most of us could be "Joe", he is an average guy. I didn't want it to turn into a thread about people with natural talent and what they could achieve.Rich0 -
So if your 1 hour/25 TT power is 305 watts (as you wrote elsewhere), you were at about 265 watts on the Glandon and 223 watts on the AdH. Is that right?bahzob wrote:knedlicky wrote:bahzob wrote:I did 75%, I reckon the guys right at the front do more like 90%.
Won't 90% bring you into the anaerobic zone? To do more than 15 mins at 90% one has to be pretty fit and even then probably couldn't keep it up for more than 45-60 mins, not long enough for some of those climbs.bahzob wrote:Glandon 87%, Telegraph 83%, Galibier 75% and ADH 75% ... With hindsight I wish I had been more postive and now seeing ABs figures I will plan to train and ride future such events at 90%.
Sorry, maybe some confusion. Talking in power terms where 100% is your best 1 hour pace (e.g. as done in 25TT).
How does that translate into time on those ascents?0 -
You WILL win the 2011 Tour de France 
