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worth £200 extra for a steel frame?

john_john_ Posts: 26
edited June 2008 in MTB beginners
I am considering replacing my 5 year old trek trek 4300 over the summer and want to get something that will last...

I am considering an orange p7 but it seems that you are paying a premium for the steel frame (and slightly longer travel forks)
but a similarly speced specialised rockhopper censored can be picked up for around £600, £200 less than the p7.

does anyone have any experience of similar bikes? or can suggest anything better around that price range, I would prefer to buy from leasure lakes as I should be able to get 10% anything there this summer.

John

Posts

  • Rich HcpRich Hcp Posts: 1,355
    Have a look at the Orange G3

    Ali frame....

    The P7 is bomb proof, that's what you pay for, that and the fact that orange only make 4,000 bikes a year

    Spez probably make that many a week
    Richard

    Giving it Large
  • john_john_ Posts: 26
    Is the rockhopper disk a good buy at £600 or is there anything at the same range that really outclasses it? after my previous trek would definately consider them again.
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    The Orange frame is designed for harder riding, and is heavier because of it.

    Genesis do some decent priced steel hardtails, such as the Genesis Altitude 1.0 and 2.0

    http://www.cyclesurgery.com/ProductDeta ... egoryID/81

    Personally I am not sure why the Orange is the price it is for the frame, when equivalent priced frames are Reynolds 853, or more exotic steels.
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  • switchback18switchback18 Posts: 617
    edited June 2008
    john_ wrote:
    ...I am considering an orange p7 but it seems that you are paying a premium for the steel frame (and slightly longer travel forks)
    but a similarly speced specialised rockhopper censored can be picked up for around £600, £200 less than the p7.

    I would say it's worth it if you've got the cash - it's actually welded in Halifax for one thing. It has good mud clearance so you can fit a bigger choice of tyres - I reckon tyres are probably the most important bit. Also, steel feels ace to ride if the bike's a hardtail. I've got a Switchback and its still nice to ride even after serious abuse. It's dented but keeps going. Alluminium bikes or really lightweight steel ones tend to die from dents much more easily. The P7 has a good chance of lasting alot of years.

    Alluminium is used in hardtails mostly because it's cheaper to produce - that's not saying they're bad bikes, but that's the main reason. But ...it's good for full sus

    You might not get a G3, orange have run out - if you want one snap it up quick if a shop has any left - really good for the money, we went for them as rental bikes - couldn't stretch to P7's, shame.

    Note on exotic steel bikes - I had a posh hand built reynolds frame from Dave Yates once - a mixture of 531 & 753. It snapped one day when I grabbed the front brake hard. They fixed it for cost price but wouldn't admit it was their fault - interestingly he said the shop shouldn't have sold it to me coz I wasn't light enough! I weighed about 13.5 stone.
    So some steel should not be used for mountain bikes I think.

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  • Chaka PingChaka Ping Posts: 1,451
    As other people have said, you're not really comparing like with like there - the Spesh is really mass market and the Orange is rather more "specialised".

    Is it worth £200 more? Not sure. Have a look at the On-One Inbred if you're after a more economical steel framed bike - and if you can understand their website.

    Or I found this link when reading another thread today, not bad value even at full price...

    http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/produ ... _Bike_2008
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    P7 is made in the far east! Not that it makes any difference where they are made nowadays, as the far east has some of the worlds leading facilities and equipment.
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  • Rich HcpRich Hcp Posts: 1,355
    The Orange Hardtail frames are made in the far east.

    Orange only employ about 8 people. They can't do everytihing

    The final paint and build is done here (I think)

    The Full Sus frames are made here.

    It's all down to preference, like buying a car and we should not critisise peole choices if the are happy with what they have got.
    Richard

    Giving it Large
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    "Note on exotic steel bikes - I had a posh hand built reynolds frame from Dave Yates once - a mixture of 531 & 753. It snapped one day when I grabbed the front brake hard. They fixed it for cost price but wouldn't admit it was their fault - interestingly he said the shop shouldn't have sold it to me coz I wasn't light enough! I weighed about 13.5 stone.
    So some steel should not be used for mountain bikes I think."

    Some guages of steel maybe - a lot depends how it is built. Remember 853 steel has 80% higher tensile strength than standard cromo which is why it builds into lighter or stronger frames when done right. 531 is standard cold drawn chromoly, 725 heat treated which adds more strength, while 753 cannot be welded, only suitable for brazing and is rarely seen (requires certified builders to use).


    Upshot is that if you have two identically built bikes (dimensions), the 853 or 725 will be stronger than standard cromo
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  • john_john_ Posts: 26
    what about charge? they seem to do some quite nice bikes, I really like the look of this
    http://www.leisurelakesbikes.com/produc ... ke&id=1727
    anyone had any experience?
  • BlackSpurBlackSpur Posts: 4,228
    Nope, but it's a bargain here

    http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/14926/Charge_Duster_Mid_Bike_2008
    "Melancholy is incompatible with bicycling." ~James E. Starrs
  • john_john_ Posts: 26
    wow yeh really is!
    has a good spec and it seems charger are a new british brand!

    anyone rode one? if i was considering it i'd take a spin over to my local leasure lakes first tho.
  • BlackSpurBlackSpur Posts: 4,228
    You could ask them to price match too, and avoid Whinstanley's.
    "Melancholy is incompatible with bicycling." ~James E. Starrs
  • john_john_ Posts: 26
    do you mean I could avoid them.. or that I should?
  • BlackSpurBlackSpur Posts: 4,228
    Should, there is a thread somewhere on here with pages of people criticising awful service from them.
    "Melancholy is incompatible with bicycling." ~James E. Starrs
  • john_john_ Posts: 26
    does any kno leasure lakes policy? would they match internet?
  • Paul ShPaul Sh Posts: 607
    Personally i would go for the Rockhopper Disc, mainly for the frame, my wife has one and it's faultless, i'm actually trying to find one so i can switch as many of my Boardman components as can onto it, i was told it was once used on the Stumpjumper range at one point, dunno if it's true though, either way i want one. :D
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  • john_john_ Posts: 26
    yeh this rockhopper does look like a good deal... and if I get 10% off I can get it for £540!

    how long do you think it would last me? obviously without any major crashes.
  • Rich HcpRich Hcp Posts: 1,355
    10 years+
    Richard

    Giving it Large
  • fcumokfcumok Posts: 283
    I know someone who works for Orange and i've always told him their bikes are too costly. He's never disagreed. I'd go for the rockhopper.
  • john_john_ Posts: 26
    anybody have any other suggestions for quality bikes around the £600 mark?

    preferably available from http://www.leisurelakesbikes.com/

    they do Marin, Saracen,Scott...etc

    the aspect 10 doesn't look bad...
  • BlackSpurBlackSpur Posts: 4,228
    I agree, it's a very nice looking bike. I love the riding position too, but obviuously that is personal.
    "Melancholy is incompatible with bicycling." ~James E. Starrs
  • BigmiksearsBigmiksears Posts: 51
    i bought a p7 - dont think i'll ever regret it - plus it'll be going up and down hills alot longer than most ally frames
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