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Bull terriers- and why i now think they should be banned.

ademortademort Posts: 1,924
edited April 2008 in Campaign
Around 1-0-clock this glorious sunny afternoon i was out in the back garden cleaning my bikes as usual. The kids were out playing with friends and all was well. Within seconds that all changed, i could hear screaming shouting and above all one womans voice she sounded hysterical. Then i heard people running up the alleyway by my house and my daughter ran in and said that two bull terriers had got hold of a cat and were tearing it to peices. I ran out to the square and saw one of the dogs with the cat,s head in it,s mouth, a bloody awful sight, i ran over pushed the dog away, obviously the cat was dead. The dog at the scene was covered in blood and sat licking itself off. The owner a woman in her twenties arrived and said that the dogs had never done anything like this before. She was very distraught. I put the cat in a plastic bag and we waited for the police to arrive, both dogs are to be destroyed. I,M a dog lover myself, but having seen the damage that those dogs did to that cat then you can only imagine what they could do to a child. You could hear the cats skull being crunched like a bone. One neighbour was taking a video in his garden at the time and has footage of the dogs attacking the cat. His daughter has been taken to hospital suffering from shock. If you had of asked me this morning for my opinion on bull terriers then it would have been very positive, i,ve many friends who have or have had bull terriers and they love there dogs, but after seeing this today i am afraid that they get no points at all from me now. Any comments or advice as always very welcome Greetings Ademort
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  • huggyhuggy Posts: 242
    edited February 2008
    Dogs can be strange things. A girl working in a dog shelter was taking a placid rottweiler for a walk on the plain. She tripped over and the dog went crazy - it bit her arm off from the shoulder. Couldn't be sewn back on unfortunately, as it was half-eaten. The dog kept biting and tearing, running off, then coming back and eating more arm. The girl was found 45 minutes later, and thankfully she lived. The dog was shot, and the dog shelter was closed down. It's such a shame how unpredictable dogs are when they get spooked, though from my experience, older, bigger dogs are far 'nicer.'

    I like cats more - elegant, sleek, lightweight, fast, quiet, compact, sounds like something else on this forum
  • fto-sifto-si Posts: 402
    So are you saying that only a bull terrier would do that to a cat? Numerous breeds of dog are capable of inflicting the same from a rottweiler to a mongrel.
    If you had seen the same incident but it involved a german shephard for example would you be saying that all german shephards should be banned? I doubt it very much.
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  • ademortademort Posts: 1,924
    fto-si wrote:
    So are you saying that only a bull terrier would do that to a cat? Numerous breeds of dog are capable of inflicting the same from a rottweiler to a mongrel.
    If you had seen the same incident but it involved a german shephard for example would you be saying that all german shephards should be banned? I doubt it very much.
    Hi dont think german shepard dogs can inflict such injuries, but i might be wrong. Greetings Ademort
    ademort
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  • huggyhuggy Posts: 242
    Well I wouldn't want to fight a German Shepard, but since they are used by armies such as the British army, as 'war dogs' - placed between the 2 fences in POW camps, deliberatley designed to kill, I imagine they can inflict a lot of damage.
  • Not wanting to be devils advocate or anything, but the cat may have provoked the dog first. I've seen numerous cats "taunt" dogs, usually from a safe height or behind a patio door. This one may have gotten a bit too close, as Bull Terriers can be a bit territorial if I remember correctly.

    No matter the nature of a dog they can still turn shan. My grandma used to own a very aggressive Golden Retriever (i'm convinced the only one in existence).
    "A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"

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  • 5 think the original poster is wrong, sorry. There are very few bad breeds of dogs, but many varieties of bad owners.

    In my experience Staffordshire bull terriers are some of the friendliest breeds I have ever had the pleasure of owning and breeding.

    The biggest problem they have is that they are incredibly strong and for this reason attract the wrong owners. You know the ones, no need to elaborate.

    I owned two of these dogs and had three litters from them, they were both the best dogs and most loving animals I have experienced.

    However, I have been bitten by a Doberman, attached by 3 Alsations (I was a paper boy, came with the territory!!) and even had to get rid of my own Golden retriever as it was often growling at my daughter.

    Point is, some dogs like humans are not so nice, then some breeds of dogs attract the wrong owners.

    But to say that these dogs should be banned is to make a statement based on emotion rather than facts.

    All my opinion of course. I don't expect all to agree.
  • z000mz000m Posts: 544
    i think the owner(s) should be banned from keeping such animals
  • ademortademort Posts: 1,924
    Just hear from the police that the owner was visiting her boyfriend here and brought the two dogs with her in the car. On opening the door the dogs jumped out and did a runner, the cat was in the wrong place at the wrong time. One of the dogs got the cat and then both of them started pulling at it like a rag doll, there were a large group of children playing ttere at the time. The owner said that the more she screamed at the dogs the more aggresive they became. She is insisting that they both be destroyed, but as is usual here the case will have to be referred to the courts. Greetings Ademort
    ademort
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  • fossyantfossyant Posts: 2,549
    The issue is that they are terribly strong animals, and very difficult to fend off even for an adult. Maybe I should have a BIG cat, like a tiger - look cuddly don't they...... :shock:
  • I don't think dogs get destroyed for killing cats, I might be wrong.

    Do cats get destroyed for killing mice?

    Anyway - obviously on my last post I was attacked by 3 Alsations, not attached.......

    Also - used to have a greyhound - it killed two cats - but that was in the 80's when dogs killing cats was not really news :?
  • fossyant wrote:
    The issue is that they are terribly strong animals, and very difficult to fend off even for an adult. Maybe I should have a BIG cat, like a tiger - look cuddly don't they...... :shock:

    Most dogs are. Alsation, golden retriever, bulldog, tiger - all difficult to stop if they do something wrong. That's why they need to be trained from an early age (except tigers, unless it's tigger from pooh, or Hobbes...)

    It's all about the owners - lots of dangerous things out there in the world in the wrongs hands - knives, guns, chainsaws and dogs.....
  • I heard about a bloke on a bike who killed a pedestrian.

    When are we going to ban blokes on bikes?
  • Tom ButcherTom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    Dog attacks cat - not exactly news is it. Many dogs will attack cats - just as cats kill birds and mice etc Most sight hounds and terriers have a high prey drive - although it isn't unique to those types of dog. It doesn't mean they are the dogs most likely to attack a person.

    Yes a Staffy could likely kill a child - just as any powerful breed of dog could - German Shepherd, labrador, golden retriever, greyhound. If you don't think a Shepherd can be as powerful as a Staffy then I think you are mistaken - yes Staffies are strong for their size - but they are fairly small to medium dogs typically weighing no more than 40lbs. The fact they are involved in so few incidents considering there are so many of them about now and that a percentage of the owners probably aren't the best dog owners is testament to their temperament with people.

    If she's having her dogs put down for attacking a cat then she shouldn't be allowed to own a dog in the future.

    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • You have to keep these unsavoury things in perspective.

    The sad fact is that a child is far, far more likely to be killed by one of it's parents than by a dog.
    Bizarrely, dog attacks are more likely to be front page news.
  • In Geneva, Switzerland yesterday there was a plebiscite passed to ban dangerous dogs.

    The law will now need to be finalized but it passed with 65% support.

    Smoking in public was also banned (80% support)

    God bless direct democracy.
  • chill888 wrote:
    In Geneva, Switzerland yesterday there was a plebiscite passed to ban dangerous dogs.

    The law will now need to be finalized but it passed with 65% support.

    Smoking in public was also banned (80% support)

    God bless direct democracy.

    Good to see The swiss following on the UK's coat tails.......

    Dangerous dogs act quite some time ago (this thread is really discussing Staffordshire bull terriors, which are not classified as dangerous, currently).

    There has been no smoking in Scotland for several years and more recently in England.

    So what is better about the Swiss democracy that made it take longer to do the same there? 8)
  • hehe

    I could give you lots of reasons why Swiss government is better than the UK's .... but it was just a throw away comment .... not looking for a fight.

    FWIW - There is also a law that requires any dog regardless of breed that is over 25 kilos to take a certified training/behaviour course.
  • Tom ButcherTom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    If we had direct democracy on individual issues like that in the UK I'm sure that we'd not only have a ban on certain breeds of dogs - but probably on bicycles using the road when there is a perfectly good cycle path painted on the pavement too.

    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • chill888 wrote:
    hehe

    I could give you lots of reasons why Swiss government is better than the UK's .... but it was just a throw away comment .... not looking for a fight.

    FWIW - There is also a law that requires any dog regardless of breed that is over 25 kilos to take a certified training/behaviour course.

    Wasn't looking for a fight......honest.

    Also not really into defending British Government.

    Quite like the 25Kilo rule, but think it might work better if it was a 4 stone rule...... :lol:
  • It's a sad fact, that when a dog sees a cat running, it thinks "Food" "Chase". We've a dog and three semi-feral cats, who keep the rodent population down around the stables.
    The dog largely ignores the cats and visa-versa, until he startles one and it runs, then he starts to chase it.
    The cat was quite unlucky to get caught.
    However, the owner should have the dogs trained well enough for them to stop chasing the cat when told to.
    When my dog starts to chase the cat, he gets told not to and stops.
    Remember that you are an Englishman and thus have won first prize in the lottery of life.
  • pjhpjh Posts: 204
    I think most dogs would kill a cat given half the chance! (and sometimes it's the dog that comes off worse)

    The dogs shouldn't have been off the lead ... THAT was the problem. If they'd been under control this simply wouldn't have happened.

    As has been said ... bad owners (including ignorant one's) are nearly always to blame; the dogs are mainly doing what comes naturally!


    It's great to be .....
  • rustychiselrustychisel Posts: 3,444
    richardast wrote:
    You have to keep these unsavoury things in perspective.

    The sad fact is that a child is far, far more likely to be killed by one of it's parents than by a dog.
    Bizarrely, dog attacks are more likely to be front page news.


    Errrr, okay. But what percentage of dogs (any breed) bother reading a newspaper? Perhaps that's what is at issue here?
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  • there's no such thing as bad dogs. only bad owners.

    (i know this thread is about a cat but, as an aside, staffordshire bull terriers are the only breed described by the kennel club as being "totally reliable," around children. english bull terriers come highly recommended as a family dog.)

    i have quite strong views on dog ownership and how it should be regulated. i would be quite happy if every dog owner should have to register with a vet and do a basic obedience course as well as having a licence.

    i don't think the dogs will have to be destroyed. dogs chasing cats is hardly new. unfortunately for the cat. it wasn't quick enough.
  • jedsterjedster Posts: 1,717
    when I was at University in Manchester I used to walk through a park to lectures. A few times I saw a bloke "training" a staffy. Memorable features were

    a) him tieing a balloon to a tree so that the staffy could just reach it with its nose at full jump. The dog was bounding up and down like a large, toothy and very frustrated bouncing ball...
    b) him towing a traffic cone on a rope behind his bike dragging the growling staffy who had his jaws locked around the traffic cone...

    Bloody scary.

    As someone else posted, its more bad owners than bad dogs. Mind you can make the same argument for hand guns...

    J
  • ademortademort Posts: 1,924
    Have just had a visit from the owner of the cat, he was very emotional but gave me a bottle of whisky for my help on sunday. The story has taken another twist now. Apparently the lady who wanted the dogs put down is not officialy the owner, her boyfriend is.He came home on sunday after being called out from work and apparently attacked a police officer who was waiting to question him He was arrested and spent a night in the cells for his troubles. He blames his girlfriend for the incident and has told the police that even in the house both dogs have a collar on and are not taken out of the house without a lead on.This is not backed up by his girlfriend who says that the reason the dogs got away in the first place is that both dogs have a choker collar which is attatched to their lead. But both leads were in her boyfriends car at the time so she could not use them. The dogs are held by the police at the moment awaiting further investigation. It turns out that from council records the man is the owner of the dogs. In the Netherlands you have to pay council tax on a dog and the more dogs you have the more you pay. Watch this space, i do not know the lady involved or the man, but have a feeling that their relationship is a bit tense at the moment.Keeping you all informed Ademort
    ademort
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  • fto-sifto-si Posts: 402
    Being the owner of a Staffy I was fully expecting a load of 'anti-staffy' replies to Ademorts original post but I have been pleasently surprised by the response.
    The breed do not deserve the reputation they have been tarnished with by certain groups of people and this is not helped by the owners who see them as some kind of fashion accessory or ego booster.
    In my experience with dogs Staffies are without doubt the most loyal and loving dogs and in the right ownership they can become the perfect dog to own.
    The general public, fuelled by the media, are always quick to blame the dog for every incident but we rarely get to know the complete story. A dog does not just decide to attack a human or another animal, something triggers that action wether it be an instinct such as the dog chasing the cat or something that has been instilled in its brain by training or possibly even abuse. For example if a dog was mistreated with a stick in its younger years what will be the reaction if an innocent child approaches brandishing a stick?
    My Staffy NEVER leaves the house/garden unless she is on a lead and this is where the owner of the dogs in the original post was at fault.
    I see the strength, power and tenacity of a Staffy everyday and that cat would of stood no chance, the dogs should never of been in the position where they were able to get to the cat.
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  • my Staffy b*tch is now 15 and still in reasonable fettle, when she was 18 months old she used to 'play' with next doors cats , they all got on fine until one day she was severley scratched and permanently scarred on her face by one of the cats, after that she didn't like cats. One day she was let out onto our very secure fenced/walled garden the cats were sleeping in the sun, they were startled by the dog and ran, one got up a tree one didn't ,luckily I got out to stop the dog killing the cat in time it 'just' savaged it's back leg. The leg needed to be amputated, the cats owner was very upset but also understanding she even commented " it was only getting it's own back".
    The points are dogs chase cats and despite training are still animals with animal instincts as are cats as they torment ,maim and slowly kill mice,birds,shrews,voles etc etc, there is no good or bad they ARE animals.
    Owners ARE to blame in all circumstances for failing to keep animals under control, even accidentaly, Staffies are strong and I never let either of my children alone with my dog until they were able to make her behave, also I never let them take her out for walks that was/ is my job. My dog has never bit anyone only myself accidentaly when taking a stick out of my hand, she has never attacked or attempted to attack anyone else.
    being a reformed stuntdrinker allows pontification
  • My 9 year old Staff/Lurcher cross dislikes but is largely passive to other dogs.
    Strangely, he loves cats.
    Even stranger, the cats next door that he knows best love him back in equal measure.
    My wife and the neighbour think it's terribly cute. Obviously, as a stereotypical shaven-headed, tattooed, knuckle-dragging Staff owner, I think it's an abomination. :wink:
  • richardast wrote:
    . Obviously, as a stereotypical shaven-headed, tattooed, knuckle-dragging Staff owner, I think it's an abomination. :wink:

    I am actually surprised you can use a computer - everyone knows that these staff owners are all drug dealing ruffians who love nothing more than dog fighting and beating up old ladies....
  • ademortademort Posts: 1,924
    To a certain extent i would agree that much of it,s down to the owners. Certainly the behaviour shown by the dogs owner. Attacking police officers just because your dogs have been taken away. What does this owner expect when his dogs are running round the streets and not on a lead. The young lady who was looking after the dogs at the time quite obviously could not control them. How does he expect her to control them if he has both dogs choker/leads in his car. If his dogs are destroyed he has only himself to blame, IMO he should be prosecuted.
    ademort
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