Skiing the Alps????

dennisn · February 2008

Not a bike question but thought I would ask it anyway. See if there are any skiers out there.
While recenly skiing at Vail, Colorado(USA) my wife and myself rode up a lift with a couple from England. Being curious I asked them why, with the Alps so close by, did
they choose to fly halfway around the world to ski Vail. They responded by saying
that skiing in the USA was much better than Europe's ski resorts because of snow conditions, grooming, and the like. Said they have been coming here for years and knew
a lot of people who did likewise. This struck me as odd as I had always viewed the Alps
as the top of the line, although I have never skied there. Is this really a common thing or are these people just a little crazy and have too much money to spend???

Dennis Noward

Monty Dog · February 2008

The £/$ exchange rate at the moment makes vacationing in the US relatively cheap. There's also the guarantee of snow which you often can't get in Europe - particularly early or late season. That said, ski-ing in the US is generally more risk averse - depending on the resort - but in Europe at many resorts you can venture off piste at your own risk without risking your lift pass.

dennisn · February 2008

Monty Dog wrote:

The £/$ exchange rate at the moment makes vacationing in the US relatively cheap. There's also the guarantee of snow which you often can't get in Europe - particularly early or late season. That said, ski-ing in the US is generally more risk averse - depending on the resort - but in Europe at many resorts you can venture off piste at your own risk without risking your lift pass.

Interesting. I've always wanted to ski the Alps. You know, take in the culture and all that.
One of these days it just might happen. I must say that as I get older, off piste skiing,
which I have never been good at, is not something I do much of, if at all. When I do try
it I just get piste off. Now that was a really bad attempt at humor.

Dennis Noward

ddraver · February 2008

I'm a very keen skiier but i ve yet to go anywhere else than the alps

i get the impression from some people that the USA is a bit more theme park like with big open easy pistes, now tbh i lonly really ski off piste now, but i aslo get the impression that there are "off piste" pistes in USA that are safer if you don't iknow what you re doing (the impression i got is that they the skiing equivalent of MTB trail centres)

i think if you can deal with the jet lag or afford the two weeks off that USA is a good place to go, but for me its too expensive and too far and i just like France too much tbh

plus i'm bad at following rules..... :oops:

ajohn9 · February 2008

ive skied both, depends what you're into.
if its freestyle then america
if its backcountry its europe
piste cruiser its europe

Europe just pips it for me!!

Bronzie · February 2008

I love Vail - friendly people (no pushing in at lift lines), 300 days of sun a year on average, champagne powder from November to April. The inlaws had a place in West Vail for 5 years or so and I went there most seasons.

I skied Austria before that and although I prefer the atmosphere (less Disney On Snow than Vail), the snow conditons are very variable. Went to Morzine for Xmas 2006 and had to ski on mud...........no fun. Also skied Whistler and Lake Louise, but I still think Vail is my ideal ski resort.

The only drawbacks over Europe in my eyes is the travelling/jet lag (and environmental damage I am helping to promote :oops: ). You need to spend 10 days there really as you lose a couple at the start with the journey wiping you out.

il_principe · February 2008

DennisN, if you do go to Europe make sure you pick a resort with some soul! A lot of European resorts have become rather souless - populated with concrete and staffed by con-artists - IMHO France is particularly bad for this - yes Tignes/Val D'isere I'm thinking of you.

Basic rules in Europe are: go high and go in Jan/Feb; that way you should be guaranteed snow. My favourite resort is Zermatt. It's traffic free - except for electric buses, electric taxis and the odd horse, and they have very strict building regs. On the rare occasion they do allow a new build it must adhere to a draconian set of rules that ensure the character of the town remains unsullied. Zermatt also happens to have some of the best skiing in the Alps as well as some fantastic alpen restaurants and watering holes, and of course the iconic Matterhorn! I'm heading over in March and I cannot wait. On the downside it can be very expensive but it's the same all over Europe with the exception of Andorra and some of the Eastern European resorts.

dennisn · February 2008

Thanks for the input guys. I'm sure I'll be heading that way in the next 2 or 3 years.
Like I said I've always wanted to go. Now all I have to do is talk my wife into it, hench
the 2 or 3 years. She wants to go to Ireland first and won't be denied(well, she's
Irish and you know how they are).

Thanks

Dennis Noward

knedlicky · February 2008

If the English you met, dennisn, had been going to Vail, as they said, ‘for years’ it probably means they were also out of touch of how it is nowadays in the Alps or anywhere else in Europe. I suspect they might have also preferred Vail for cultural reasons, not all English can cope with foreign languages and the more pushy European behaviours.

I work for an American company in Europe and at any one time about half the employees are American. There is more turnover amongst the Americans, as many only come over to Europe for the experience, then leave and are replaced by others, so over the years I’ve met many. And of those who ski, none preferred the US for skiing, all preferred the Alps. Their favourite areas seem to be Kitzbühel, St. Anton, Jungfrau, and Trois Vallees. I’ve skied over 20 resorts in the Alps and could easily recommend another 6-8 to anyone.

I’ve also met groups of Americans at ski resorts in Europe who have come over just for a week’s skiing, also claiming Europe was better than the US for skiing, partly because (as implied above) the US resorts are too tame. Admittedly the groups were from the east coast, Maine and Vermont, so not exactly living themselves near Vail.

The only Europeans I’ve met who have been to the US or Canada to ski have gone for the off-piste heli-ski tours which one can more easily do there than in the Alps, though nowadays it seems the Caucasus mountains are increasingly popular for that., and cheaper than the Rockies too.

knedlicky · February 2008

Monty Dog wrote:

The £/$ exchange rate at the moment makes vacationing in the US relatively cheap.

The dollar rate nowadays does make holidaying in the US cheaper than it was before, but not really cheaper than closer home.

I know of someone who just before Xmas went to New York because he heard he could get kid leather Italian shoes cheaper there than in Europe. What he heard was right, but in order to cover his airfare there, compared to a cheap flight to Milan, to make his journey worthwhile, he had to buy 30 pair of shoes!

robbarker · February 2008

Tignes and Val D'Isere may share a ski area (the best in Europe in my humble opinion) but they are very different as places to stay.

Sure, Tignes is quite high-density high-rise in the typical French manner, but Val is a much older and prettier place altogether. It's a thoroughly pleasant place to stay - expensive, yes, but that's supply and demand for you. I like it anyway, and I'm off there for 10 days next week :-)

I couldn't live with the speed limits on the US Pistes..

flattythehurdler · February 2008

I'm with you on that. I've been to a good few places and Val is my favourite. Nice and high and clean.
First rule is to avoid the french school holidays as it is utter bedlam. I really really mean this. Try to avoid UK school holidays as well. Mid january is a good time to go.
Kitzbuhel is lovely, but not that high so snow can be patchy. The three valleys are dreadful. Full of braying sloanes and increasingly russians. I realy don't like them.
I would read the white spider and go for a look at the north face of the eiger whilst you are over.
dan

OffTheBackAdam · February 2008

I'll stick my hat in the ring for Cervinia, other side of the hill from Zermatt. Switzerland is very expensive, Italy not so and you can get a lift pass that covers the whole area. Snow cover permitting and fitness level, you can do a 22km, all-day ski, all the way down to Valtournenche.
If you want really cheap, try Bulgaria. Been twice there, but being fairly low, the snow can be unpredictable, but it's one of the few places in Europe that yopu can afford to eat on the mountain at lunchtime. Mind you, their concept of a cheeseburger is interesting! :shock:
The best French resort I've been to was Vaujany, small, but just over the mountain from L'Alpe d'Huez, again, a shared lift pass for the area.
Went stateside last year for the first time, a glorious 10 days in Lake Louise (OK< Canada, but it's just America with a different accent) Bloody cold, Cervinia is -13C at the top (~3,000m) first thing on the morning, LL was colder than that going up the first chair lift, straight back down to buy a balaclava!
The big difference is the classification of the runs, the Canadian Black Runs weren't even a dark Red as far as we were concerned.

chill888 · February 2008

One watch out for Alps

NEVER book a holiday well in advance unless at a HIGH resort - base at least 1700m or higher.

Every year, Brits get disappointed at places like Morzine and Lesgets. Which are GREAT resorts but can struggle for snow when warm.

But Val d'Isere, La Plagne, Trois Vallées, Chamonix etc, etc are world class.

PS - when first getting into big Alps cycling, I was skiing at Val d'Isere, sitting on a ski lift and saw this little road up HIGH, weaving through the mountains. I thought "what a great cycling road I bet" - Yep, it was the Col de l'Iseran highest PASS in France. Cycled it a few months later.

Col de l'Iseran in winter

chill888 · February 2008

By the Way

One possibility for cyclists that like to ski, is to bring the bike to French Alps - even in winter. A bit fanatical but occasionally doable.

If no recent snow, famous Tour de France routes are quite rideable - IF they are up to a ski resort as the roads are plowed. And if it hasn't snowed in a while the road dries.

Alpe d'Huez is clear at the moment for example.

Bring several layers for the descent

grimpeur · February 2008

chill888 wrote:

By the Way

Alpe d'Huez is clear at the moment for example.

You're joking right?!? It may well be rideable but it is also extremely busy especially with coaches ferrying skiers to and from the resort. It busy enough out of season during the summer. Besides could you really derive any enjoyment from riding it in the middle of skiing season?? The descent would also be treacherous and it would freeze you to the bone.

chill888 · February 2008

totally serious and fun

apart from saturdays, the road isn't that crowded. The weather has been stunningly sunny and clear. The lack of recent snow means plowed routes are in excellect shape and DRY. The Views are better in winter as everything is snow covered. Paradise.

it's all a question of how you dress. I wear ski gloves and bring 2 extra jackets for descents. As i said originally, it is a bit fanatical .... but fun

Not for everyone, fair enough

Couple days ago, didn't even need extra jackets up to 1500m - HOT

BlackSpur · February 2008

I've been skiing the states for 7 years, just got back from Steamboat CO this afternoon. They have had 380" powder so far this season - and that pretty much sums up why I go out there - I don't think you will not get anything like this in Europe. Skiing in the States means no queues for lifts, unlike in Europe, no language barrier, guatenteed snow and with the dollar the way it is, you don't pay that much of a premium over Europe.
The mountain there is also a pretty big MTB spot in the summer, and the locals still use it as one in the winter - saw loads of bikes with humongous snow tyres on!

chill888 · February 2008

That is very true

The Alps never gets even remotely as much snow as Colorado.

Lift lines are rarely a problem where I ski in the Alps - although the french school holidays are a real hassle.

And when conditions suck at the lower resorts, the higher ones do get more crowded.

dennisn · February 2008

Well, it looks like it just might be Zermatt - Cervinia. My wife sort of gave the nod to Italy
if we can go to Ireland first, next year. So, in any case it's still a couple of of years off
and that's if the dollar doesn't drop out of the bottom of wherever it's at now. Then I'll have to
take a suitcase full of money. Thanks again for the input.

Dennis Noward

ddraver · February 2008

true but the izoard and the galibier won't be, the lautaret will be mind adn any of the other "main acces to resort climbs"

i suppose the proper passes/cols won't be, either way i'm jnot sure i'd mix cycling with novice drivers and ice mind... we ve had a few spinning moments on roads in ski resorts, even with an experienced/sensible driver at the wheel...

plus i would nt be giving up a morning for cycling 8) , i can cycle at home and in the summer

knedlicky · February 2008

OffTheBackAdam wrote:

Switzerland is very expensive.

I don't really agree with this.

If one looks, one can find pretty cheap accommodation in Switzerland. For 3 of the last 5 years we’ve paid only about £30 per night for a self-catering flat for 4 people (two bedrooms, living room, kitchen and bathroom) on the outskirts of Adelboden. And I know people who have found similar arrangements on the outskirts of Grindelwald.
In Austria and France one would expect to pay almost double this, though in Austria flats are admittedly usually more generous spacewise and better furnished and heated. In France, however, flats are usually tiny, with little floor space and poor value per square metre.

For the ski pass in comparable ski areas, one might pay 10% less in France, but pay 15% more in Austria, so Switzerland is in the middle. Though, the ski lifts in Switzerland usually start up to an hour earlier than France and finish up to an hour later than in Austria, so in that respect, one gets easily more for one's money in Switzerland.

Switzerland is expensive for hotels and for restaurants (when one can easily pay twice what one might pay in Austria for the same or similar) but if you go self-catering, Switzerland can work out very well.

hammerite · February 2008

This is all very interesting.......

After years of being anti skiing (not because I didn't want to try it but because I'm injury prone and was scared I'd get injured!), and avoiding going with the OH (she's a very keen skier) I've relented and just booked a holiday.

Unfortunately she's a teacher and the little one is at school so we have to go in school hols, but we're going to Alpe d'Huez over new year. This way I have all summer to practise at MK snowdome, so I'm not a complete numpty when I get there. Only got 10 more months to get excited about it

Skiing the Alps????

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