Robust/Hardcore Trail Hardtail Build

Morty_Oxon · October 2007

After considering the full-susser route and being sorely tempted by a Meta 5.5, I've decided that in all honesty a bike like that is prob a bit excessive for my needs at the moment. So I've decided a fairly versatile hardtail with 5'' forks would be more suitable to handle mainly singletrack, all day rides and occasional jumps and downhill.

I'm pretty certain that the DMR Trailstar LT is the right frame for me (good/bad choice?), but having never done my own build before I was hoping for some advice on how I should spec it.

My budget is sub £900 all in (but obviously the cheaper the better). The frame is £220 on CRC which seems pretty good. Current broad ideas for a fairly light but strong build:

130mm Recons
Mixture of LX/XT chainset ('08 XT shadow rear mech definitely)
Raceface Deus XC stem and Atlas AM low rise bar
SDG Bel Air ST i-beam saddle and post
Crank Bros Smarty pedals

Don't know about brakes: currently using Hays 9s but not sure about the on/off feel of them - ideally want something with similar power and pad wear with a bit more modulation particularly on the front brake (currently pretty tricky to do smooth stoppies).

Also, know nothing about wheelsets, think there was a WMB test recently that I'll go back and look at more closely. Same goes for headsets (Chris King gd but expensive?).

Overall would be good to get in under 28lb tho not an absolute requirement.

All ideas welcome. Cheers

Andy B · October 2007

For wheelsets look on Merlincycles.co.uk, one of the best wheelbuilders there is. Hope hubs & Mavic XM719's should do you well, as for disc brakes Shimano Deore are very good stoppers & cheap too.

Father Faff · October 2007

I can recommend the Orange P7. Steel twang and hard as nails.

ride_whenever · October 2007

If you can stretch it in then i'd suggest pikes for the bolt through stiffness. As fro bakes i'd look at the formula ones, although I love my hope mono minis, they do really smooth stoppies!

As for wheels, id trust merlin, I bought my bakes and wheels (719 on proII) from them and they have been flawless. I've been jumping on them all summer including doing a 10' drop a couple of times and they are still running true.

As for headsets, I'd look for something cheaper than a CK, possibly a FSA the pig IIRC, they are supposed to be rather nice.

CitizenLee · October 2007

To add my tuppence worth - You cant go wrong with FSA Pig headsets... cheap and strong. I've had them on pretty much all the bikes I've owned (bar internal FSA on my BMX) and have never had a single issue with them. They can take a lot of sh*t!

Morty_Oxon · October 2007

Good shout for the P7 and I can see many reasons why it should be on my list, however, I've got a few issues with it:

Firstly, think 140mm is prob too much for the most common riding I do (general "aggressive" xc, hate that phrase, but suppose it's the most appropriate). Secondly, although I like the build for the Pro (similar to my choices coincidentally), think £1200 is really a bit much for my budget. I can understand spending more initially to save upgrading in the long-term but really think the grand mark is my limit.

Still doesn't sit too well with me that it's that much to be honest and the girlfriend and various family members would be horrified that I'd spend that much on a "push-bike", but working as much as I can at the mo to pay for something that hopefully will be pretty gd quality and last me a while.

My rationale for a custom build is to get something a bit more personalised which could genuinely cover many diff types of riding. Not sure if I could take the P7 jumping; could be wrong but I see it more as a bulletproof mile-muncher for the mountains.

Have I missed some other obvious frames? Am I being unrealistic in going down the build route and just buy a gd quality off-the-peg option?

Good comments so far, particularly the FSA headset. That's exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for, tough, cheap and fairly light. Spot on. Same goes for wheels (merlin will be getting a call). Formula also look like excellent stoppers, so if I can, they'll be going on. Less convinced over the Pikes - as wicked as they are, they're pretty steep to incorporate into a sub £1000 build (also 140mm).

Sorry for the long messages, really keen to get this right and super grateful for all the advice so far.

Thanks again, Morty

GT Destroyer · October 2007

An orange crush (frame or bike) is certainly worth a look?

Its £999 for the full bike, 08 comes with Fox, Hayes, Raceface, some Sram bits etc....

Or the frame on its own is £380

It'll deal with the big hits as its designed for a 150mm travel fork.
Its one I'm seriously considering getting as I do very similar riding to yourself - Aggressive XC.

easyg · October 2007

Me and GT Destroyer are bestest pals and like he said do very similar riding to you which as you said is classed as agressive XC (AXC). As Jim (GT) said we are also doing a very similar thing with upgrading our hardtails. Jim is still in two minds whether to buy a new bike or build from the frame up. I on the other hand have taken the plunge on the second option and recently purchased a Marin Rocky Ridge 07 frame (for a steal!) and am now designing the other bits - god its good fun isn't it!

I have Recons and love them - not the lightest (coil - more robust) but super plush feel and love the look of them. They get my vote and are on budget like you implied earlier. Green light for your build in my book.

Got to dash to lunch, but looking forward to continuing this discussion this aft.

Speak soon.

Morty_Oxon · October 2007

The Crush is definitely a tough bugger but I'm not sure it's really right for me. My standard riding week during the winter months tends to be two 3+ hour rides at the wkends and a couple of miles 2/3 nights a week down to the local pool.

When the days are a little longer I try and get out almost every evening after work. The standard ride tends to be bridleways and paths and I try to hit everything I can see whether that's decent sized drops, jumps, gaps or the more standard rooty, rocky singletrack all in one ride. I also don't want to be having a pulmonary every time gravity isn't working in my favour, or on longer rides.

I’ve been using an upgraded Trek 4500 for most of this and aside from riding it into the ground it’s coped pretty well but now I’m starting to go bigger I really need something stronger which whilst good for distance, is also quite chuckable.

Not much love for the Trailstar, any reasons behind this? Perhaps it’s too jump-oriented and won’t cope as a xc hack?

Saw the Rocky Ridge did very well in the WMB awards so good choice easyg. I'm quite keen to put my own spin on the bike and doing a custom build could really be a lot of fun. Recons will def be on it.

GT Destroyer · October 2007

On-one inbred 456? I looked at that as well but it didn't go big enough in frame size, its got good reviews and is a very good price.

I'm looking at the Crush as its designed for bigger travel forks, which is what we need for our AM riding.

Heres a question, where do I find the WMB awards?

tommywmb · October 2007

What about Santa Cruz Chameleon? Pricey, but hard as nails!

Morty_Oxon · October 2007

WMB did a Bikes of the Year issue in September. In the Best Sub £1000 Long Forked Hardtail category, the winner was the Marin Rocky Ridge a close second was the Saracen Zen 3 and third was the Orange Crush.

In the Best Sub £1000 Hardtail category the winner was the Rock Lobster Team Tig SL, second went to the Focus Killer Bee Ltd. and third to the Genesis Altitude 2.0.

If I could afford the Chameleon, I prob wouldn't have started this discussion in the first place! My dream list would include the Cruz, Pace 303 and one or two others.

Think I've developed an inferiority complex with regards to my riding. Afraid Oxfordshire isn't renowned for it's mountain ranges....

The 456 is going on the real-world list as is the P7 which I've decided to reconsider. Like the idea of a Rocky Ridge build......

GT Destroyer · November 2007

You might struggle with the Rocky Ridge - I don't think the frame is available to buy on its own. easyG managed to find a frame from a guy who had some 07 models left over - He might be able to get you in touch with him - easyg will have a look in here today probably and help you out if he can.

I'm made up that the crush got the 3rd place. The zen only goes to 19" and my mate has got the Rocky Ridge so the Crush looks like the one for me.

easyg · November 2007

So the discussion is hotting up a bit.

As GT said you might struggle to find a Marin frame, but in my book if you look hard enough you will everntually find what you want. I will send you the eBay identity of the guy I got mine of (privately) as he did say he might have more 07 Marins that he would break down and sell, no guaranteed though.

The DMR topic - my point with that was not saying it won't do because it probably would, its just you could do better.

As for the fun factor - I agree, I am really enjoying designing mine. I have written a spec and apart from not knowing which wheels to get I have everything else picked out. It will be as follows:

Marin Rocky Ridge medium frame
Rockshox Recons
Avid Juicy Carbon brakes
Truvativ Team Carbon Riser Bars
Truvativ Team Carbon Seatpost (double clamp)
Truvativ Team Stem
Truvativ Noir Crank OR Truvativ Stylo Team Carbon GXP Crank
Green Chris King threadless headset
Deore XT running gear, incl shadow derailleur
White Sella Italia Flite Carbonio saddle (or the shit arse Bontrager standard thing I have)

and then the wheels??? which in dreamland would be green Chris Kings on Mavic 719s (all black look)

Thoughts...

tommywmb · November 2007

Are carbon bars and breaks wise? The number of times I've caught a brake lever or slid out and the bars have copped it I'd have broke them by now! Maybe I'm just crap on a bike!?

GT Destroyer · November 2007

There all right mate - I've had the Ritchey carbon WCS bars on mine for ages now - Although I haven't really taken a decent tumble for a bit now (sorely tempting fate there!) the bars are well strong.
I'm 6ft 7 and weigh 18 stone so must put loads of stress on them whilst riding and they've never felt anything less than strong. I was concerned about them flexing etc.. but if its a quality product it'll take loads of abuse.

rob cole · November 2007

I'd highly recommend the DMR Trailstar...one of the nicest frames i've ever ridden for hardcore cross country or "play" riding

Rockshox Pike would be a great fit

fireheed · November 2007

CRC do some good deals on wheels too.

Morty_Oxon · December 2007

I went for a new 2008 Marin Rocky Ridge medium sized frame that happened to be available quite by chance and it looks wicked - lighter than I thought as well.

My build at the moment is as follows:

Mavic XM719 rims on 2008 XT hubs from Merlin Cycles
Formula Oro K24 brakes also from Merlin - to be upgraded to 180mm asap
2008 Rock Shox Revelations 426 Coil Sprung with 130mm travel adjust
XT cranks, shadow rear mech and XT front mech with XT shifters. LX cassette
RaceFace Atlas AM bar
Bontrager Big Earl lock-on grips
Charge Spoon saddle

Yet to decide on:
Stem - probably Titec Hell Bent RIP 3D
Headset - Cane Creek S-3, FSA Orbit UF, On-One Smoothie Regular
Rear tyre - ideally highish-volume (2.25 inch) but still fast rolling, along the lines of Intense CC 2.5

Haven't thought about weight too much but don't think it'll be that hefty went for reliability and strength as priorities.

I'd welcome any comments on what I've chosen or views from anyone doing similar builds.

Cheers.

GT Destroyer · December 2007

Sounds like a fantastic build you've got there mate I can't see much wrong with it myself - Where did you get the Rocky Ridge frame from?

The Big Cheese · December 2007

you wil love the Rocky Ridge frameset - they truly are a delight to ride and I find the geometry astounding - very light and strong!

Nice build you have planned there - don't forget to post pics when you finish!

Morty_Oxon · December 2007

I got it from the same shop that your mate easygav got his from in Newark. The mechanic made a highly uncharacteristic blunder as he was building it up and accidentally cut the forks to the wrong length so they had to order a completely new bike from Marin for the customer they were putting it together for. They decided to sell the bits off separately and I bought the frame. Incredibly lucky as it's nigh impossible to get Marin frames normally. Real stroke of fortune and I'm hugely grateful to Gav for the heads-up.

How's the Crush working out for you? Looks pretty awesome.

After some truly outrageous quotes on components from a LBS, I've found somewhere that can source the remaining bits I want and put it together for less than a third of the price the other shop was demanding. Should have it built up by the new year.

Ordered the wheels and brakes from Merlin Cycles on Monday night - received them today. Top service as always and both items (wheels in particular) look brilliant.

GT Destroyer · December 2007

Well done for you mate!! Really lucky by the sounds of it.

Gav appreciates your thanks

Not got the Orange yet - Waiting for the 2008 frames to come in January. I have my full XT set sat waiting in a big box next to me! I'm ordering the Pikes tomorrow, and the rest of the stuff I'm getting just after christmas.

So you haven't managed to get out on yours yet?

Noclue · December 2007

As an alternative to the race face atlas bars you could always go for evolve AM bars and stem they are identical in looks to the atlas range except the graphics but at a fraction of the cost, i used them on my build and am well impressed with them.

Robust/Hardcore Trail Hardtail Build

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