Etap again
Comments
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Right, so
eTap Force 1x £699 (shifters and RD)
2 x Rival 1250 cassettes £ 220
1 x chain around £40
2 x XDR freehub bodies £ 140 (Hope +Bitex)
overall £ 1,100... it seems a lot of money, but in this day and age you don't get very much for a grand in the race bike world... thoughts?left the forum March 20230 -
Depends. These days I have a "race" bike that stays as it is - I don't swop wheels out etc - so compatibility with other stuff I've got wouldn't be an issue. In the past when I actually raced, trained in bad weather, didn't have zwift etc having 11 and 12 speed bikes would have been more of a consideration.
Price wise that does look pretty reasonable in today's world.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
I could even splash an extra £ 200 and go for Red instead of Force, but I figured out the technology is probably identical and the weight saving for two shifters and a derailleur is not worth the extra. I think there was a point in going top of the range with mechanical shifters (smoothers, possibly better built), but with electronics the argument is (I suspect) feebleleft the forum March 20230
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It is a lot of cash but if you want it then go for it.
Agree there is no discernable difference between red and force. I have had 3 electronic groups in the past and shift speed and accuracy was virtually identical across them all. As you say, it is just extra cash to save a few grams.0 -
The barrier is the 12 speed stuff... a lot of extra money to convert wheels and to render my bike incompatible with my wife's... bit of a hassle. I wish there was a cost effective way to run eTap 1X with 11 speed
left the forum March 20230 -
Yes, that is the trade off, if you are going to switch you have to go all in. Personally I am avoiding 12 speed in all forms as all my bikes are 11 speed and I have lots of spares to keep me supplied for a while. In addition, chains and cassettes, which I burn through, are still a fair bit cheaper.2
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the question MF has just shouted across is why?.
The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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The counter argument is that it might be the last chance to get eTap for a rim braked bike... I am not sure how long they will keep offering it in both flavours...left the forum March 20230
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Why not? Cable operated gears are a PITA... installation and maintenance, especially the 11 speed stuff, is so fiddly with a million different and specific ferrules... especially with the new frames/bars with internal routing. I think wireless shifting is one of the very few bicycle innovations that can actually make a differenceMattFalle said:the question MF has just shouted across is why?
left the forum March 20230 -
eh, serioudly? cables PITA? 11 speed constant fettling? eh?Bizarre. Sounds lke you've been convincing yourself of a problem that doesn't exist tbh
Anyhow, you've been saying that you want a lighter frame for 'climbing but can't afford it so you're going to spaff £1100 on a groupset on an old Dolan frame?
okey kokey..... crack on.
.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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I've got 4 AXS rim brake bikes (Red, Red with Rival FD, Force and Rival with Red shifters), one of them (my PX Spitfire) is equipped with a 12-speed Shimano CS-8100 cassette, CN-8100 chain, and Praxis Buzz12-speed compatible rings on an old Red Exogram chainset. It works well, but the front shifting isn't quite as quiet or quick as with an AXS chainset. I also have a Sunshine branded 12-speed 11-34 cassette from AliE which also runs fine with AXS gears and chain, so you don't necessarily need to go with XDR hubs, and the new 105 cassette is pretty cheap.
Edit: sorry I missed the part where you said you want cassettes with < 30T
BTW, Force AXS chains can be bought for £26.50 each and Rival for £20, and Red probably isn't worth the upgrade over Force, at least not the shifters and derailleurs. The Red chainset is a bit lighter and prettier though. The Force chains are chrome plated so will wear a bit better than Rival.1 -
A thousand quid won't buy me a decent light frame, unfortunately... taking a punt for that kind of money on a second hand frame from ebay is not something I am too keen on. The next best upgrade would be ETap... I love the simplicity of a cable free gearing system. It would also future proof everything, as it won't matter if the next frame is designed for di2 or mechanical, if it is meant to be 2x or 1x... with no cables to worry about, any frame will be just fine, as long as it can be equipped with rim brakes.MattFalle said:eh, serioudly? cables PITA? 11 speed constant fettling? eh?Bizarre. Sounds lke you've been convincing yourself of a problem that doesn't exist tbh
Anyhow, you've been saying that you want a lighter frame for 'climbing but can't afford it so you're going to spaff £1100 on a groupset on an old Dolan frame?
okey kokey..... crack on.
It is just a question whether I can be bothered to go 12 speed right now...left the forum March 20230 -
a grand won't buy you a lightweight frame for riding up a hill?ugo.santalucia said:
A thousand quid won't buy me a decent light frame, unfortunately... taking a punt for that kind of money on a second hand frame from ebay is not something I am too keen on. The next best upgrade would be ETap... I love the simplicity of a cable free gearing system. It would also future proof everything, as it won't matter if the next frame is designed for di2 or mechanical, if it is meant to be 2x or 1x... with no cables to worry about, any frame will be just fine, as long as it can be equipped with rim brakes.MattFalle said:eh, serioudly? cables PITA? 11 speed constant fettling? eh?Bizarre. Sounds lke you've been convincing yourself of a problem that doesn't exist tbh
Anyhow, you've been saying that you want a lighter frame for 'climbing but can't afford it so you're going to spaff £1100 on a groupset on an old Dolan frame?
okey kokey..... crack on.
It is just a question whether I can be bothered to go 12 speed right now...
eh? seriously?.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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I'm not saying it's a bad idea but it sounds like you are planning to make a fairly expensive compromise.
I thought for 1x12 the main advantage was a wide range cassette without too big jumps between gears? For your requierments will you not require multiple chain rings and cassettes? That plus converting hubs etc sounds like quite a faff?
Also I would worry about how long before SRAM stop making eTap for rim brakes and expensive conversion kit becomes obsolete.
If lightweight racebike is the goal and you don't want to spend £5K+ I'd personally go with a chinese carbon frameset for £500ish or even lightweight alloy like a kinesis aithein or second hand, second hand tubs, and for 1x I'd look at "modifying an older 11 or 10 speed set up - something light to start with eg Red, record etc.
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No, it won't... guy on the second hand Facebook page wanted 1500 for his second hand Supersix HM... very good conditions and all. Anything less wouldn't be an upgrade to be honest.MattFalle said:
a grand won't buy you a lightweight frame for riding up a hill?ugo.santalucia said:
A thousand quid won't buy me a decent light frame, unfortunately... taking a punt for that kind of money on a second hand frame from ebay is not something I am too keen on. The next best upgrade would be ETap... I love the simplicity of a cable free gearing system. It would also future proof everything, as it won't matter if the next frame is designed for di2 or mechanical, if it is meant to be 2x or 1x... with no cables to worry about, any frame will be just fine, as long as it can be equipped with rim brakes.MattFalle said:eh, serioudly? cables PITA? 11 speed constant fettling? eh?Bizarre. Sounds lke you've been convincing yourself of a problem that doesn't exist tbh
Anyhow, you've been saying that you want a lighter frame for 'climbing but can't afford it so you're going to spaff £1100 on a groupset on an old Dolan frame?
okey kokey..... crack on.
It is just a question whether I can be bothered to go 12 speed right now...
eh? seriously?
Chinese route, maybe... but it's all very marginal, a lot of faff to save half a pound... or one Watt to you and me.
left the forum March 20230 -
i'd go with a sanded old Madone frame, the SLX forks he has, light tub wheels he can build, 1x 10 speed Red/Dura/Record, nice light 'bars, stem, 'post, carbon saddle from the 'Bay.i.bhamra said:I'm not saying it's a bad idea but it sounds like you are planning to make a fairly expensive compromise.
I thought for 1x12 the main advantage was a wide range cassette without too big jumps between gears? For your requierments will you not require multiple chain rings and cassettes? That plus converting hubs etc sounds like quite a faff?
Also I would worry about how long before SRAM stop making eTap for rim brakes and expensive conversion kit becomes obsolete.
If lightweight racebike is the goal and you don't want to spend £5K+ I'd personally go with a chinese carbon frameset for £500ish or even lightweight alloy like a kinesis aithein or second hand, second hand tubs, and for 1x I'd look at "modifying an older 11 or 10 speed set up - something light to start with eg Red, record etc.
Easy sub 6kg, well sub £1,000.
Then lob anyoldshit forks on his Dolan as an all rounder.
Sorted.
MF is still sitting on his chair drinking coffee bewildered by eTap talk considering what Ugo does with his bikes.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Don't worry about weight, that is a separate issue.i.bhamra said:I'm not saying it's a bad idea but it sounds like you are planning to make a fairly expensive compromise.
I thought for 1x12 the main advantage was a wide range cassette without too big jumps between gears? For your requierments will you not require multiple chain rings and cassettes? That plus converting hubs etc sounds like quite a faff?
Also I would worry about how long before SRAM stop making eTap for rim brakes and expensive conversion kit becomes obsolete.
If lightweight racebike is the goal and you don't want to spend £5K+ I'd personally go with a chinese carbon frameset for £500ish or even lightweight alloy like a kinesis aithein or second hand, second hand tubs, and for 1x I'd look at "modifying an older 11 or 10 speed set up - something light to start with eg Red, record etc.
But I do agree on the 12 speed faff... mind you, I do like the 10T sprocket which means I can time trial with a relatively small ring at the front.
I thought buying it now would mean having it before they stop making it... spares will be the same for rim or disc (chains and cassettes)left the forum March 20230 -
I don't just do that with my bike... it's also a training machine as well as a time trial bike.MattFalle said:
i'd go with a sanded old Madone frame, the SLX forks he has, light tub wheels he can build, 1x 10 speed Red/Dura/Record, nice light 'bars, stem, 'post, carbon saddle from the 'Bay.i.bhamra said:I'm not saying it's a bad idea but it sounds like you are planning to make a fairly expensive compromise.
I thought for 1x12 the main advantage was a wide range cassette without too big jumps between gears? For your requierments will you not require multiple chain rings and cassettes? That plus converting hubs etc sounds like quite a faff?
Also I would worry about how long before SRAM stop making eTap for rim brakes and expensive conversion kit becomes obsolete.
If lightweight racebike is the goal and you don't want to spend £5K+ I'd personally go with a chinese carbon frameset for £500ish or even lightweight alloy like a kinesis aithein or second hand, second hand tubs, and for 1x I'd look at "modifying an older 11 or 10 speed set up - something light to start with eg Red, record etc.
Easy sub 6kg, well sub £1,000.
Then lob anyoldshit forks on his Dolan as an all rounder.
Sorted.
MF is still sitting on his chair drinking coffee bewildered by eTap talk considering what Ugo does with his bikes
BTW, I do have a carbon saddle from Facebook...110g for 10 quid was good value! frame and eTap come together the way I see it
I very nearly got a Boardman SLR... NOS, it was 500 quid, but it was di2 only. Had I been on eTap, it wouldn't have been an issue. Same for a Rose frame... Increasingly, top of the range rim brake frames seem to be di2 only or have some kind of routing faff. No routing is better than routing faffleft the forum March 20230 -
My concern would be what happens when the shifter fails and you can't get a replacement. I'm probably overthinking it and I guess to some extent everything becomes obsolete eventually........ugo.santalucia said:
Don't worry about weight, that is a separate issue.
But I do agree on the 12 speed faff... mind you, I do like the 10T sprocket which means I can time trial with a relatively small ring at the front.
I thought buying it now would mean having it before they stop making it... spares will be the same for rim or disc (chains and cassettes)
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thats why you're keeping the Dolnugo.santalucia said:
I don't just do that with my bike... it's also a training machine as well as a time trial bike.MattFalle said:
i'd go with a sanded old Madone frame, the SLX forks he has, light tub wheels he can build, 1x 10 speed Red/Dura/Record, nice light 'bars, stem, 'post, carbon saddle from the 'Bay.i.bhamra said:I'm not saying it's a bad idea but it sounds like you are planning to make a fairly expensive compromise.
I thought for 1x12 the main advantage was a wide range cassette without too big jumps between gears? For your requierments will you not require multiple chain rings and cassettes? That plus converting hubs etc sounds like quite a faff?
Also I would worry about how long before SRAM stop making eTap for rim brakes and expensive conversion kit becomes obsolete.
If lightweight racebike is the goal and you don't want to spend £5K+ I'd personally go with a chinese carbon frameset for £500ish or even lightweight alloy like a kinesis aithein or second hand, second hand tubs, and for 1x I'd look at "modifying an older 11 or 10 speed set up - something light to start with eg Red, record etc.
Easy sub 6kg, well sub £1,000.
Then lob anyoldshit forks on his Dolan as an all rounder.
Sorted.
MF is still sitting on his chair drinking coffee bewildered by eTap talk considering what Ugo does with his bikes
BTW, I do have a carbon saddle from Facebook...110g for 10 quid was good value! frame and eTap come together the way I see it
I very nearly got a Boardman SLR... NOS, it was 500 quid, but it was di2 only. Had I been on eTap, it wouldn't have been an issue. Same for a Rose frame... Increasingly, top of the range rim brake frames seem to be di2 only or have some kind of routing faff. No routing is better than routing faff
all you have to do is change the forks
i got 2 amazon carbon saddles - 80g at £20. Amazon 1x 'rings - utterly no g at £15.
eTap will cost a fortune, be heavier, you'll have to startmessing with hubs, etc.
routing is not a faff. route once, leave. my S3 was routed pre Covid, haven'tneeded to change. Same goes forxeverything else. Searching for probs that don't exist mec.
.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Yeah, I guess my assumption is that it won't fail... but yes, good luck with finding 11 speed ETap, disc or rim... unfortunately obsolescence is built in...i.bhamra said:
My concern would be what happens when the shifter fails and you can't get a replacement. I'm probably overthinking it and I guess to some extent everything becomes obsolete eventually........ugo.santalucia said:
Don't worry about weight, that is a separate issue.
But I do agree on the 12 speed faff... mind you, I do like the 10T sprocket which means I can time trial with a relatively small ring at the front.
I thought buying it now would mean having it before they stop making it... spares will be the same for rim or disc (chains and cassettes)left the forum March 20230 -
I changed the forks already.MattFalle said:
thats why you're keeping the Dolnugo.santalucia said:
I don't just do that with my bike... it's also a training machine as well as a time trial bike.MattFalle said:
i'd go with a sanded old Madone frame, the SLX forks he has, light tub wheels he can build, 1x 10 speed Red/Dura/Record, nice light 'bars, stem, 'post, carbon saddle from the 'Bay.i.bhamra said:I'm not saying it's a bad idea but it sounds like you are planning to make a fairly expensive compromise.
I thought for 1x12 the main advantage was a wide range cassette without too big jumps between gears? For your requierments will you not require multiple chain rings and cassettes? That plus converting hubs etc sounds like quite a faff?
Also I would worry about how long before SRAM stop making eTap for rim brakes and expensive conversion kit becomes obsolete.
If lightweight racebike is the goal and you don't want to spend £5K+ I'd personally go with a chinese carbon frameset for £500ish or even lightweight alloy like a kinesis aithein or second hand, second hand tubs, and for 1x I'd look at "modifying an older 11 or 10 speed set up - something light to start with eg Red, record etc.
Easy sub 6kg, well sub £1,000.
Then lob anyoldshit forks on his Dolan as an all rounder.
Sorted.
MF is still sitting on his chair drinking coffee bewildered by eTap talk considering what Ugo does with his bikes
BTW, I do have a carbon saddle from Facebook...110g for 10 quid was good value! frame and eTap come together the way I see it
I very nearly got a Boardman SLR... NOS, it was 500 quid, but it was di2 only. Had I been on eTap, it wouldn't have been an issue. Same for a Rose frame... Increasingly, top of the range rim brake frames seem to be di2 only or have some kind of routing faff. No routing is better than routing faff
all you have to do is change the forks
i got 2 amazon carbon saddles - 80g at £20. Amazon 1x 'rings - utterly no g at £15.
eTap will cost a fortune, be heavier, you'll have to startmessing with hubs, etc.
routing is not a faff. route once, leave. my S3 was routed pre Covid, haven'tneeded to change. Same goes forxeverything else. Searching for probs that don't exist mec.
Well, I guess that is true for any upgrade... looking for problems that don't exist and trying to get some enthusiasm out of new stuff to get me through another dull winter.
I'd love a new frame too... I was looking at those yellow/red Emonda ALR... a non upgrade that would make me cosmetically very pleased...
https://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/frames-forks-c6/road-frames-c47/trek-emonda-alr-rim-frameset-2022-p25302/s80095?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=trek-emonda-alr-rim-frameset-2022-size-56cm-colours-radioactive-red-size-56cm-colours-radioactive-red-to-marigold-fade-1050430&utm_campaign=product+listing+ads&cid=GBP&glCurrency=GBP&glCountry=GB&gclid=Cj0KCQiAgribBhDkARIsAASA5bs-6lrEtZUDVLQxNPmgQf08VreTYP4ifex-aLNqwGwRttUwXUbFQyMaAklWEALw_wcBleft the forum March 20230 -
https://www.halfords.com/bikes/road-bikes/boardman-slr-9.4-disc-mens-road-bike-2021---xs-s-m-l-xl-frames-455502.html?stockInventory=undefined
Supposedly back in stock December, £2800 before BC discount etc.================
2020 Voodoo Marasa
2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
2016 Voodoo Wazoo0 -
it's a very good price, but I am still sceptical about disc brake bikes... especially for time trials and hill climbsleft the forum March 20230
