Cressida Dick steps aside as head of the Met
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Now you’re contradicting yourself.davidof said:
it is a bit of marketing fluff to pretend that things are different while fundamentally they are not.morstar said:
A big part of the job is simply being present.
Being approachable and engaging with people whilst doing so (as in the picture) is hardly a bad thing.
Your initial point was agreeing with Patel they’re probably too woke.
Now it’s just marketing fluff covering up that they have not changed.
So either they were always (and still are) woke or they’re not woke. Which one is it?0 -
TfL is in pretty dire straits at present, financially. They were *almost* self funding up until end 2019, having been on a pretty successful revenue generating / cost saving plan for the last 5-6 years. They are now back to square one. The expansion of the ULEZ is basically the best way to make some money in the short term.rick_chasey said:
On the specific issue of the tube, i am of the view his price freeze is storing up longer term problems, from speaking to some people who know about it.rjsterry said:Probably some. I've been somewhat underwhelmed by Khan, but beats having to put up with Livingston or Johnson.
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D1ck head of the met, never sounded right.2
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Essentially TfL only works if the tubes trains and buses are full and they haven't been for two years.rick_chasey said:
On the specific issue of the tube, i am of the view his price freeze is storing up longer term problems, from speaking to some people who know about it.rjsterry said:Probably some. I've been somewhat underwhelmed by Khan, but beats having to put up with Livingston or Johnson.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
yesterday could not have been much over 50% stillrjsterry said:
Essentially TfL only works if the tubes trains and buses are full and they haven't been for two years.rick_chasey said:
On the specific issue of the tube, i am of the view his price freeze is storing up longer term problems, from speaking to some people who know about it.rjsterry said:Probably some. I've been somewhat underwhelmed by Khan, but beats having to put up with Livingston or Johnson.
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TheBigBean said:
I haven't looked into it, but how much blame does Khan get for funding issues? For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not giving the Conservatives a pass on this, far from it, but I suspect Khan needs some blaming too.rjsterry said:TheBigBean said:
I just think it is a much wider issue and one that politicians need to take some responsibility for. In my neck of the woods, kids routinely kill kids. In an ideal world, they would have a stake in society and not see killing each other as the path to paradise. The police then attempt to manage the mess. This inevitably attracts the sort of person happy to be hated by much of a community. They then adapt their policing to comply with political whims and the general lack of funding and staff. This leads to short-cuts which results in prejudice.kingstongraham said:
Unless it's moving in the right direction, then it won't improve even over a twenty year period.TheBigBean said:
Even over a five year time period.kingstongraham said:
You mean immediately?TheBigBean said:I'm intrigued how Khan thinks a new head will solve all the problems.
I'm not defending the police officers involved, but it is politicians that need to be held accountable as well.
I agree that some of the problems laid at CD's feet were far from unique to the Police. And yes, the ongoing irony of a Conservative government that literally defunded the police and the justice system, but still likes to wang on about being tough on crime.TheBigBean said:
I just think it is a much wider issue and one that politicians need to take some responsibility for. In my neck of the woods, kids routinely kill kids. In an ideal world, they would have a stake in society and not see killing each other as the path to paradise. The police then attempt to manage the mess. This inevitably attracts the sort of person happy to be hated by much of a community. They then adapt their policing to comply with political whims and the general lack of funding and staff. This leads to short-cuts which results in prejudice.kingstongraham said:
Unless it's moving in the right direction, then it won't improve even over a twenty year period.TheBigBean said:
Even over a five year time period.kingstongraham said:
You mean immediately?TheBigBean said:I'm intrigued how Khan thinks a new head will solve all the problems.
I'm not defending the police officers involved, but it is politicians that need to be held accountable as well.
Definitely. He has a tendency to hide away from the big issues and fails to take responsibility.
CD was quite a controversial hire when she got the job, but tbh I don’t perceive the Met is awash with talent at the top so it is picking the best of a not particularly good bunch.0 -
Working on a project at present for a large organisation with a very controlling parent company.kingstonian said:TheBigBean said:
I haven't looked into it, but how much blame does Khan get for funding issues? For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not giving the Conservatives a pass on this, far from it, but I suspect Khan needs some blaming too.rjsterry said:TheBigBean said:
I just think it is a much wider issue and one that politicians need to take some responsibility for. In my neck of the woods, kids routinely kill kids. In an ideal world, they would have a stake in society and not see killing each other as the path to paradise. The police then attempt to manage the mess. This inevitably attracts the sort of person happy to be hated by much of a community. They then adapt their policing to comply with political whims and the general lack of funding and staff. This leads to short-cuts which results in prejudice.kingstongraham said:
Unless it's moving in the right direction, then it won't improve even over a twenty year period.TheBigBean said:
Even over a five year time period.kingstongraham said:
You mean immediately?TheBigBean said:I'm intrigued how Khan thinks a new head will solve all the problems.
I'm not defending the police officers involved, but it is politicians that need to be held accountable as well.
I agree that some of the problems laid at CD's feet were far from unique to the Police. And yes, the ongoing irony of a Conservative government that literally defunded the police and the justice system, but still likes to wang on about being tough on crime.TheBigBean said:
I just think it is a much wider issue and one that politicians need to take some responsibility for. In my neck of the woods, kids routinely kill kids. In an ideal world, they would have a stake in society and not see killing each other as the path to paradise. The police then attempt to manage the mess. This inevitably attracts the sort of person happy to be hated by much of a community. They then adapt their policing to comply with political whims and the general lack of funding and staff. This leads to short-cuts which results in prejudice.kingstongraham said:
Unless it's moving in the right direction, then it won't improve even over a twenty year period.TheBigBean said:
Even over a five year time period.kingstongraham said:
You mean immediately?TheBigBean said:I'm intrigued how Khan thinks a new head will solve all the problems.
I'm not defending the police officers involved, but it is politicians that need to be held accountable as well.
Definitely. He has a tendency to hide away from the big issues and fails to take responsibility.
CD was quite a controversial hire when she got the job, but tbh I don’t perceive the Met is awash with talent at the top so it is picking the best of a not particularly good bunch.
There is a real dearth of talented management which I think is symptomatic of the lack of autonomy. I strongly suspected the talented don’t stick around.
I can imagine the top tier of the met is similar. No real autonomy (plus lots of scrutiny) is hardly the sort of environment to attract top talent.0 -
You seem to be very aggressive about this. Have you considered a career in the Met?morstar said:
So either they were always (and still are) woke or they’re not woke. Which one is it?
BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
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It is one of those jobs that if a person actually wants it then they probably shouldn't be appointed.....0
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I counted 6 articles in the Metro yesterday just about met police doing bad / illegal things > not comment articles either. Don't live there anymore just work but certainly feels like there's a lot of stories of dodgy police in London at the moment.
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You could argue that this is a good sign, they have probably been doing this all along but now seem to be getting caught. Think late 90s cycling, looks really bad but is a step on the way to improvement. Remember, there are 43,000 serving officers in the Met so there is always going to be a risk that a small percentage are going to be abusing their position of trust.rick_chasey said:I counted 6 articles in the Metro yesterday just about met police doing bad / illegal things > not comment articles either. Don't live there anymore just work but certainly feels like there's a lot of stories of dodgy police in London at the moment.
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It's more I'm making the point I think the No.10 parties not being investigated is being overplayed in its role in her downfall and I think it is much more to do with increasing amounts of evidence that the met is not currently able to ensure its officers adhere to the standards and behaviour appropriate for a well functioning police-force, and it seems bad behaviour is quite rife.Pross said:
You could argue that this is a good sign, they have probably been doing this all along but now seem to be getting caught. Think late 90s cycling, looks really bad but is a step on the way to improvement. Remember, there are 43,000 serving officers in the Met so there is always going to be a risk that a small percentage are going to be abusing their position of trust.rick_chasey said:I counted 6 articles in the Metro yesterday just about met police doing bad / illegal things > not comment articles either. Don't live there anymore just work but certainly feels like there's a lot of stories of dodgy police in London at the moment.
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It's like a Blankety Blank quiz!
Cressida Dick arrests modern Dick Turpin in connection with cock fighting ring.0 -
Same old Met.
Strip searching a school girl who was on her period because somebody thought they could smell weed. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/department-for-education-metropolitan-police-scotland-yard-hackney-black-b2036444.html1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
The Met - plus ca chance.
Its an inherently racist organisation staffed by a majority of fools, led by idiots, protected by the corrupt..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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More Met in general than the previous head, but what an absolute bin fire. Investigations ongoing into over 1000 allegations of sexual or domestic abuse relating to 800 serving officers, with the Rowley case being the grim cherry on the top.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
Not 1000, but 1600.
1600 uninvestigated complaints
70% of previous complaints dismissed without full investigation
Officer that has been charged - not rumoured, not gossiped, not accused but charged - with rape not suspended but put on armed duties plus diplomatic and royal protection duties.
whole organisation is a disgustingshitshow..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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I'm usually pretty supportive of the Met in these things, there's bound to be a few dodgy people in an organisation of that side who are clever enough to hide their character through vetting. However, hearing the timelines with Carrick I really couldn't see how he got through initial vetting let alone the progression into firearms and diplomatic protection where I assume they would need DV level security checking. I know there were no convictions but surely the number of unproven but seemingly unrelated things he was reported and investigated for would have cast sufficient doubt to not allow him to progress even if it wasn't enough to sack him.rjsterry said:More Met in general than the previous head, but what an absolute bin fire. Investigations ongoing into over 1000 allegations of sexual or domestic abuse relating to 800 serving officers, with the Rowley case being the grim cherry on the top.
It's not just confined to the Met either, there have been several senior officers sacked or who 'took early retirement' in Gwent recently including someone I worked with years ago before he joined the force.1 -
The elephant in the room here is not that there are "investigative failures" lead to things like a serial rapist operating unfettered in the Met, which h is this morning's interview line, but that the police bend over backwards to look after their own pretty much whatever they do. If you have ever tried to challenge an officer's behaviour when the only other witness is another officer, you will be familiar with this.1
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If the Met was an educational organisation and showed that level of lack of safeguarding, it would be closed down today.0
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I think when 2% of the workforce is under investigation we can firmly dismiss the 'few bad apples' line. That's halfway to a management endorsement.Pross said:
I'm usually pretty supportive of the Met in these things, there's bound to be a few dodgy people in an organisation of that side who are clever enough to hide their character through vetting. However, hearing the timelines with Carrick I really couldn't see how he got through initial vetting let alone the progression into firearms and diplomatic protection where I assume they would need DV level security checking. I know there were no convictions but surely the number of unproven but seemingly unrelated things he was reported and investigated for would have cast sufficient doubt to not allow him to progress even if it wasn't enough to sack him.rjsterry said:More Met in general than the previous head, but what an absolute bin fire. Investigations ongoing into over 1000 allegations of sexual or domestic abuse relating to 800 serving officers, with the Rowley case being the grim cherry on the top.
It's not just confined to the Met either, there have been several senior officers sacked or who 'took early retirement' in Gwent recently including someone I worked with years ago before he joined the force.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
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I think when it gets to that level (like the Catholic Church and MPs) you have to ask yourself if your organisation attracts these people, does it transform people or is this behaviour in all of us and the job facilitates it?rjsterry said:
I think when 2% of the workforce is under investigation we can firmly dismiss the 'few bad apples' line. That's halfway to a management endorsement.Pross said:
I'm usually pretty supportive of the Met in these things, there's bound to be a few dodgy people in an organisation of that side who are clever enough to hide their character through vetting. However, hearing the timelines with Carrick I really couldn't see how he got through initial vetting let alone the progression into firearms and diplomatic protection where I assume they would need DV level security checking. I know there were no convictions but surely the number of unproven but seemingly unrelated things he was reported and investigated for would have cast sufficient doubt to not allow him to progress even if it wasn't enough to sack him.rjsterry said:More Met in general than the previous head, but what an absolute bin fire. Investigations ongoing into over 1000 allegations of sexual or domestic abuse relating to 800 serving officers, with the Rowley case being the grim cherry on the top.
It's not just confined to the Met either, there have been several senior officers sacked or who 'took early retirement' in Gwent recently including someone I worked with years ago before he joined the force.0 -
FTFYbriantrumpet said:If the Met was any organisation and showed that level of lack of safeguarding, it would be closed down today.
.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Another elephant in the room - police recruitment is self selecting for the personality types causing many of the issues. i.e. it is a role with the exercise of power, which can be quite attractive to some people. Young men, mainly.1
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Well, my only knowledge is of education, and the speed with which allegations must be dealt with, and the fact that safeguarding is the *first* responsibility of a school: only if you have safe & happy pupils can you go on to the next bit, which is the learning bit.MattFalle said:
FTFYbriantrumpet said:If the Met was any organisation and showed that level of lack of safeguarding, it would be closed down today.
Seems to me that the Met have the safeguarding bit well behind looking after their own. But I guess, as a monopoly, they are too big to fail. From what I read, the New York Police Department is similarly dysfunctional, yet carry on failing.0 -
42% of recruits since 2020 have been female. My daughter was determined to join from the age of 12 and was a police cadet for several years, she eventually got put off partly due to ex-police officers she had lecturing on her criminology degree and partly when seeing the impact on the work / life balance of her best friend (who has since been off sick with stress having had to help keep her sergeants guts inside his body when he was stabbed). I also have a friend who gave up a career in IT to join the police in his 40s.First.Aspect said:Another elephant in the room - police recruitment is self selecting for the personality types causing many of the issues. i.e. it is a role with the exercise of power, which can be quite attractive to some people. Young men, mainly.
I applied when I was about 20 (didn't get in as my eyesight didn't meet the standards back then, everything got relaxed a few years later). I don't think I've got any major personality flaws that would make me want to abuse my power, I wanted to do it to try to help my community - sounds cheesy but I suspect it is still the reason most people do it.
Despite these cases and the 2% figure RJS mentions I think it's important to remember that the vast majority of people in the job are doing it for the right reason.0
