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TDF 2021: Stage 18, Pau > Luz Ardiden 129.7 km **Spoilers**

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  • mididoctorsmididoctors Posts: 10,347

    Giro/Tour 2020 (sans crowds) >>>>> Giro/Tour 2021
    IMHO.

    Giro/Tour 2020 (sans crowds) >>>>> Giro/Tour 2021
    IMHO.

    Giro 2021 and tour 2021 had some really.good stages but I think I agree
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctorsmididoctors Posts: 10,347
    Pross said:

    gsk82 said:

    Pross said:

    Bernal is reliant on that back problem being resolved permanently. He seems to have the kick that would allow him to get a gap which is something Carapaz has lacked but he would need to make sufficient gains to allow for TT losses.

    Can Remco come back from his less than promising Giro debut? Then there's Pidcock to come through, I assume he'll get his GT debut next season.

    As always the big question when someone wins by this margin is whether it is a sign of how good they are or just that the opposition wasn't up to scratch? I accept you can only beat what's in front of you but the question is still relevant.

    Pidcock was pencilled in for the vuelta. As far as I know he still is.
    I assume that would be for experience?
    DQS really messed up with remco ...plus that guy is immature compared with his youthful peers . Pog vingegaard pidcock Tao bernal are much more mature emotionally and clued up .
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • ProssPross Posts: 29,157

    Giro/Tour 2020 (sans crowds) >>>>> Giro/Tour 2021
    IMHO.

    Giro/Tour 2020 (sans crowds) >>>>> Giro/Tour 2021
    IMHO.

    Giro 2021 and tour 2021 had some really.good stages but I think I agree
    This Tour started off quite well but yet again dominance has killed the race. I would say this year is one of those genuine examples of the Giro being better than the Tour even though the cool kids like to say that every year.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,465



    DQS really messed up with remco ...plus that guy is immature compared with his youthful peers . Pog vingegaard pidcock Tao bernal are much more mature emotionally and clued up .


    Those other riders haven’t been subject to the ridiculous hype he has though, especially in Belgium
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 16,459
    Pross said:

    Giro/Tour 2020 (sans crowds) >>>>> Giro/Tour 2021
    IMHO.

    Giro/Tour 2020 (sans crowds) >>>>> Giro/Tour 2021
    IMHO.

    Giro 2021 and tour 2021 had some really.good stages but I think I agree
    This Tour started off quite well but yet again dominance has killed the race. I would say this year is one of those genuine examples of the Giro being better than the Tour even though the cool kids like to say that every year.
    Reading these threads (not just this one), I wonder how cycling fans coped during Eddy's domination. Just enjoy seeing class in action.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • m.r.m.m.r.m. Posts: 2,388

    neonriver said:

    First Tour since there founding that Ineos/Sky haven't won anything

    What did they win in 10 and 14?
    Weren't in the race in 10

    11 and 14 they took combativity awards on stages with Flecha and Nieve

    Unless I've missed something, nothing this year
    2011 EBH won two stages.
    Mea Culpa

    2010 was indeed the first Tour for Sky.

    Flecha took a combativity award that year

    Should he manage it, does not Carapaz finishing on the podium count as something?
    (not much I know but.....)
    Isn't a podium worth a lot more than a few combativity awards?

    I have absolutely no idea who's won any combativity awards in this Tour, although I would guess at Schelling having won a couple as he was in the break loads earlier on.

    I couldn't tell you any combativity award winners in last year's Tour, but I can name the podium.
    Worth more yes

    But it's not winning something

    There's no prize awarded
    Are you sure?


    Ineos win another Richie Porte so they have a matching set?
    You always want a spare Porte in case your primary one gets damaged in a crash.
    PTP Champion 2019
  • m.r.m.m.r.m. Posts: 2,388
    Pross said:

    There cool those soaring birds

    I want to be reincarnated as a bird of prey. It looks a nice life soaring on thermals without a care in the world (not sure about the offal diet though).
    Betancur is sure to be able to point you to some sweet breads.
    PTP Champion 2019
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,824 Lives Here

    Pross said:

    gsk82 said:

    Pross said:

    Bernal is reliant on that back problem being resolved permanently. He seems to have the kick that would allow him to get a gap which is something Carapaz has lacked but he would need to make sufficient gains to allow for TT losses.

    Can Remco come back from his less than promising Giro debut? Then there's Pidcock to come through, I assume he'll get his GT debut next season.

    As always the big question when someone wins by this margin is whether it is a sign of how good they are or just that the opposition wasn't up to scratch? I accept you can only beat what's in front of you but the question is still relevant.

    Pidcock was pencilled in for the vuelta. As far as I know he still is.
    I assume that would be for experience?
    DQS really messed up with remco ...plus that guy is immature compared with his youthful peers . Pog vingegaard pidcock Tao bernal are much more mature emotionally and clued up .
    I am worried he won’t reach his prior potential after that crash.
  • ProssPross Posts: 29,157
    pblakeney said:

    Pross said:

    Giro/Tour 2020 (sans crowds) >>>>> Giro/Tour 2021
    IMHO.

    Giro/Tour 2020 (sans crowds) >>>>> Giro/Tour 2021
    IMHO.

    Giro 2021 and tour 2021 had some really.good stages but I think I agree
    This Tour started off quite well but yet again dominance has killed the race. I would say this year is one of those genuine examples of the Giro being better than the Tour even though the cool kids like to say that every year.
    Reading these threads (not just this one), I wonder how cycling fans coped during Eddy's domination. Just enjoy seeing class in action.
    I think you can both admire domination and find it a bit boring. This year is OK, Pog was impressive in the way he built an unassailable lead, but if it goes on year after year it gets boring in any sport. That said, we've had plenty of less than interesting Tours that have been closer. For me it is more that individual stages have been a bit dull since the first rest day.
  • blazing_saddlesblazing_saddles Posts: 18,078
    Basically this Tour delivered its excitement the wrong way around. Started with wow stages ending with meh stages.

    The lack of any mid race crosswinds was also a downer.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • andypandyp Posts: 8,667

    andyp said:

    We need a proper showdown between Bernal and Pog now.

    I can't see Rog really winning it - you guys can tell me otherwise but I can't ever remember seeing Rog put any distance into Pog, and he can't TT anywhere near as well (which GC contender can?)

    What about Rog with a Vingegaard double threat then?

    Anyway, he's good, but we were talking about a 7 year dynasty for Bernal not that long ago...
    Vingegaard clearly came to the Tour to be the number one domestique for Roglic. He seems to have gotten confused as to which Slovenian though, as he's been protecting Pogacar's lead for the past two days, whilst ensuring he won both stages too.
    Not this bollocks again...

    Two days ago Vingegaard was in third, with Uran ahead of him, 3 riders within a minute of him and a further two around a minute and a half back.
    Today he's in second, with a few more seconds down to Carapaz, who was a danger to him in the mountains, and over 2 and a half minutes to O'connor in fifth. He's taken time on all his rivals, got two second places to the rider who is indisputably the best in the peloton. He's doing this in the middle of the third week of his first TdF and only his second grand tour (which was only 18 stages) on two back to back mountain stages that are probably the hardest of the race. He was racing Carapaz, Uran, O'connor, Mas, Kelderman and Lutsenko. Pogacar was so far ahead he was irrelevant.

    But hey kid, risk all that by trying to make Pogacar work so you can maybe grab a stage win, but maybe get mugged by Carapaz.
    It's a bike race, of course he should be trying to win it. JV had two riders in a group of five yesterday and instead of trying to win the stage, they gifted it to Pogacar, for the second day running. Kuss should've attacked, not set tempo on the front, and forced Pogacar or Carapaz, both of whom wanted the stage, to chase. If they brought Kuss back, then Vingegaard should've immediately gone and rinse and repeat.

    There was less than 4 kms to go, so Vingegaard's podium place was already guaranteed, and he'll likely beat Carapaz in the TT so he had a buffer to gamble with.

    I agree he's performed above expectations this year, and he should be applauded for that, but in this sport you never know what the future holds so if a win is possible you should go for it, especially in the Tour.


  • r0bhr0bh Posts: 1,587
    Pross said:

    gsk82 said:

    Pross said:

    Bernal is reliant on that back problem being resolved permanently. He seems to have the kick that would allow him to get a gap which is something Carapaz has lacked but he would need to make sufficient gains to allow for TT losses.

    Can Remco come back from his less than promising Giro debut? Then there's Pidcock to come through, I assume he'll get his GT debut next season.

    As always the big question when someone wins by this margin is whether it is a sign of how good they are or just that the opposition wasn't up to scratch? I accept you can only beat what's in front of you but the question is still relevant.

    Pidcock was pencilled in for the vuelta. As far as I know he still is.
    I assume that would be for experience?
    Pidcock doesn't strike me as someone who goes to a race just to get experience!
  • ProssPross Posts: 29,157
    r0bh said:

    Pross said:

    gsk82 said:

    Pross said:

    Bernal is reliant on that back problem being resolved permanently. He seems to have the kick that would allow him to get a gap which is something Carapaz has lacked but he would need to make sufficient gains to allow for TT losses.

    Can Remco come back from his less than promising Giro debut? Then there's Pidcock to come through, I assume he'll get his GT debut next season.

    As always the big question when someone wins by this margin is whether it is a sign of how good they are or just that the opposition wasn't up to scratch? I accept you can only beat what's in front of you but the question is still relevant.

    Pidcock was pencilled in for the vuelta. As far as I know he still is.
    I assume that would be for experience?
    Pidcock doesn't strike me as someone who goes to a race just to get experience!
    Maybe but Yates I think is pencilled in as leader and I think someone said Bernal is going too. Hopefully Pidcock will be given some freedom though I'm not sure preparing for the Olympic MTB will have put him at top form for a 3 week GT.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 13,779
    andyp said:

    andyp said:

    We need a proper showdown between Bernal and Pog now.

    I can't see Rog really winning it - you guys can tell me otherwise but I can't ever remember seeing Rog put any distance into Pog, and he can't TT anywhere near as well (which GC contender can?)

    What about Rog with a Vingegaard double threat then?

    Anyway, he's good, but we were talking about a 7 year dynasty for Bernal not that long ago...
    Vingegaard clearly came to the Tour to be the number one domestique for Roglic. He seems to have gotten confused as to which Slovenian though, as he's been protecting Pogacar's lead for the past two days, whilst ensuring he won both stages too.
    Not this bollocks again...

    Two days ago Vingegaard was in third, with Uran ahead of him, 3 riders within a minute of him and a further two around a minute and a half back.
    Today he's in second, with a few more seconds down to Carapaz, who was a danger to him in the mountains, and over 2 and a half minutes to O'connor in fifth. He's taken time on all his rivals, got two second places to the rider who is indisputably the best in the peloton. He's doing this in the middle of the third week of his first TdF and only his second grand tour (which was only 18 stages) on two back to back mountain stages that are probably the hardest of the race. He was racing Carapaz, Uran, O'connor, Mas, Kelderman and Lutsenko. Pogacar was so far ahead he was irrelevant.

    But hey kid, risk all that by trying to make Pogacar work so you can maybe grab a stage win, but maybe get mugged by Carapaz.
    It's a bike race, of course he should be trying to win it. JV had two riders in a group of five yesterday and instead of trying to win the stage, they gifted it to Pogacar, for the second day running. Kuss should've attacked, not set tempo on the front, and forced Pogacar or Carapaz, both of whom wanted the stage, to chase. If they brought Kuss back, then Vingegaard should've immediately gone and rinse and repeat.

    There was less than 4 kms to go, so Vingegaard's podium place was already guaranteed, and he'll likely beat Carapaz in the TT so he had a buffer to gamble with.

    I agree he's performed above expectations this year, and he should be applauded for that, but in this sport you never know what the future holds so if a win is possible you should go for it, especially in the Tour.


    A few days ago Vingegaard managed to drop them all on a climb. If this had happened on this stage, then he would have won the stage and secured second place without any doubt. To do that, they made it as hard as possible with Kuss applying the pressure. Seems like a perfectly legitimate tactic to me.

    As it happens, Pogacar was too strong and would have won whatever tactics were employed.
  • m.r.m.m.r.m. Posts: 2,388

    Basically this Tour delivered its excitement the wrong way around. Started with wow stages ending with meh stages.

    The lack of any mid race crosswinds was also a downer.

    Think it's just down to Pogacar being much to good compared to the rest. After the first week, GC was over and Cav became the only story remaining.
    Not sure if the parcours is to blame. Ineos and Jumbo crashing basically weakened them sufficiently to allow Pogacar to be stronger than entire teams. That is incredible on his behalf, but meant the Tour progressively lost momentum.
    PTP Champion 2019
  • mididoctorsmididoctors Posts: 10,347
    RichN95. said:



    DQS really messed up with remco ...plus that guy is immature compared with his youthful peers . Pog vingegaard pidcock Tao bernal are much more mature emotionally and clued up .


    Those other riders haven’t been subject to the ridiculous hype he has though, especially in Belgium
    True but DQS shouldn't have played into it.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 16,459

    andyp said:

    andyp said:

    We need a proper showdown between Bernal and Pog now.

    I can't see Rog really winning it - you guys can tell me otherwise but I can't ever remember seeing Rog put any distance into Pog, and he can't TT anywhere near as well (which GC contender can?)

    What about Rog with a Vingegaard double threat then?

    Anyway, he's good, but we were talking about a 7 year dynasty for Bernal not that long ago...
    Vingegaard clearly came to the Tour to be the number one domestique for Roglic. He seems to have gotten confused as to which Slovenian though, as he's been protecting Pogacar's lead for the past two days, whilst ensuring he won both stages too.
    Not this bollocks again...

    Two days ago Vingegaard was in third, with Uran ahead of him, 3 riders within a minute of him and a further two around a minute and a half back.
    Today he's in second, with a few more seconds down to Carapaz, who was a danger to him in the mountains, and over 2 and a half minutes to O'connor in fifth. He's taken time on all his rivals, got two second places to the rider who is indisputably the best in the peloton. He's doing this in the middle of the third week of his first TdF and only his second grand tour (which was only 18 stages) on two back to back mountain stages that are probably the hardest of the race. He was racing Carapaz, Uran, O'connor, Mas, Kelderman and Lutsenko. Pogacar was so far ahead he was irrelevant.

    But hey kid, risk all that by trying to make Pogacar work so you can maybe grab a stage win, but maybe get mugged by Carapaz.
    It's a bike race, of course he should be trying to win it. JV had two riders in a group of five yesterday and instead of trying to win the stage, they gifted it to Pogacar, for the second day running. Kuss should've attacked, not set tempo on the front, and forced Pogacar or Carapaz, both of whom wanted the stage, to chase. If they brought Kuss back, then Vingegaard should've immediately gone and rinse and repeat.

    There was less than 4 kms to go, so Vingegaard's podium place was already guaranteed, and he'll likely beat Carapaz in the TT so he had a buffer to gamble with.

    I agree he's performed above expectations this year, and he should be applauded for that, but in this sport you never know what the future holds so if a win is possible you should go for it, especially in the Tour.


    As it happens, Pogacar was too strong and would have won whatever tactics were employed.
    This. Equally applied to all other contenders.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
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