How much before a material improvement - wheels..

MattFalle

womack said:

Ben6899 said:

You don't need deep, carbon rims.

I can see an MF disagreeing soon!

😁😁

All of them are currently staring incredulously at the the one Nokua 510 they shate between them at Ben's response

#incredulious

MattFalle

Ben6899 said:

My most recent pair of handbuilts:

32h (front and rear) DT Swiss 411 on DT Swiss 350 hubs, with DT Swiss Comp spokes. These are solid wheels that are comfortable and feel lively to ride.

£580

You don't need deep, carbon rims but they are cool, fun, cheap, make mega noises and make you feel happy and as MF correctly said, that's what it is all about.

FTFY

pippi_langsamer-2

I've got some nice 60mm carbon hoops, some nice 40mm carbon hoops and some 25mm alu' hoops. I've had plenty other sets of carbon hoops inc top-end Dura-Ace tubulars etc etc...

You know what? The tubeless alu' 25mm jobbers ride better than any other wheel I've ever ridden. I'm almost ashamed to say that. Light, stiff and with 28mm tubeless tyre on, they ride as well as any tub I've ever ridden.

Fitted to my "auxiliary", Synapse, I'm finding I'm favouring riding this bike over my other "best", bike with full carbon Cosmics. (No, I can't swap coz one's disc, the other isn't).

No "whoosh", though....

Whatever you decide, make sure whatever you go for will fit in your 2011 Canyon. A lot of modern wheels now have considerably wider rim dimensions, so you could find you can't get some wheels to fit with sufficient clearance between your stays (depending on tyre size/ manufacturer).

johngti

I like the whoosh. And the look. And since I didn’t quite have all the gear and no idea previously, I now definitely have all the gear and no idea. And that makes me happy. Especially since my car is a Renault scenic with a poxy 1.5l Diesel engine that can’t pull the skin off a rice pudding

Ben6899

I should point out that I also own a pair of Cero 50mm carbon rims, which are also lovely to ride.

And I look boss at the café.

bobones

Ben6899 said:

My most recent pair of handbuilts:

32h (front and rear) DT Swiss 411 on DT Swiss 350 hubs, with DT Swiss Comp spokes. These are solid wheels that are comfortable and feel lively to ride.

£580

You don't need deep, carbon rims.

Waste of money IMO.

DT Swiss 350 hubs - heavy, overrated, hard to maintain and poor VFM at, what, £200 a set?
DT Swiss 411 rims - shallow, expensive. They're light, but wasted with 32 spokes.
DT Swiss Comp spokes - decent enough but expensive
32 spokes front and rear - the front is either overbuilt or the rear underbuilt. Are you a clyde?

These probably weigh around 1750g so not a light weight wheelset either. I can't really see the point of these other than to have matchy-matchy DT Swiss hand-builts.

DT R460s + Miche Primato 24F/28R + ACI Alpina DB spokes would cost less than £200 to build and be easily as good as your £580 jobs.

Ben6899

bobones said:

Ben6899 said:

My most recent pair of handbuilts:

32h (front and rear) DT Swiss 411 on DT Swiss 350 hubs, with DT Swiss Comp spokes. These are solid wheels that are comfortable and feel lively to ride.

£580

You don't need deep, carbon rims.

Waste of money IMO.

DT Swiss 350 hubs - heavy, overrated, hard to maintain and poor VFM at, what, £200 a set?
DT Swiss 411 rims - shallow, expensive. They're light, but wasted with 32 spokes.
DT Swiss Comp spokes - decent enough but expensive
32 spokes front and rear - the front is either overbuilt or the rear underbuilt. Are you a clyde?

These probably weigh around 1750g so not a light weight wheelset either. I can't really see the point of these other than to have matchy-matchy DT Swiss hand-builts.

DT R460s + Miche Primato 24F/28R + ACI Alpina DB spokes would cost less than £200 to build and be easily as good as your £580 jobs.

They're for touring, loading the bike up. I wanted the ride quality and the reliability.

I'm nowhere near a clyde, but want to be able to load the bike up - with anything - without having an eye on the wheels.

I have loads of light, deep, sparsely spoked wheelsets that are fun to ride but I wouldn't double the gross weight of me and the bike without worrying.

Having spent three sentences justifying (!), I have to say they're the best riding - and not most expensive - wheelset I own. By a country mile.

(There's a labour cost as well, remember, and in my opinion these have been built by one of the best wheelbuilders in the UK. I have a pair of Ambrosio/Ambrosio/Sapim - from the same guy - that I put through all sorts of abuse and they haven't shifted a mm since picking them up in 2015.)

rick_chasey

MattFalle said:

rick_chasey said:

lol tubs I am not a mad man. I am a guy riding a 2011 bike in 2021. What makes you think I am the kind of person who rides tubs?

why would you be a mad man to ride tubs?

gen question

'cos i is a cheapskate?

You know what they say about the Dutch. Deep pockets, short arms.

rick_chasey

Dorset_Boy said:

rick_chasey said:

lol tubs I am not a mad man. I am a guy riding a 2011 bike in 2021. What makes you think I am the kind of person who rides tubs?

Just be careful about what width of wheel and tyre size combo the Canyon will take.

Yes this is fair, I think there is a fair bit of clearance but will check specifics.

Ben6899

DOUBLE POST - DELETE

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

MattFalle said:

rick_chasey said:

lol tubs I am not a mad man. I am a guy riding a 2011 bike in 2021. What makes you think I am the kind of person who rides tubs?

why would you be a mad man to ride tubs?

gen question

'cos i is a cheapskate?

You know what they say about the Dutch. Deep pockets, short arms.

Higher rolling resistance and, unless you have a team car, heavier overall cos you have to carry a spare.

MattFalle

rick_chasey said:

MattFalle said:

rick_chasey said:

lol tubs I am not a mad man. I am a guy riding a 2011 bike in 2021. What makes you think I am the kind of person who rides tubs?

why would you be a mad man to ride tubs?

gen question

'cos i is a cheapskate?

You know what they say about the Dutch. Deep pockets, short arms.

What price happiness?

MattFalle

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

MattFalle said:

rick_chasey said:

lol tubs I am not a mad man. I am a guy riding a 2011 bike in 2021. What makes you think I am the kind of person who rides tubs?

why would you be a mad man to ride tubs?

gen question

'cos i is a cheapskate?

You know what they say about the Dutch. Deep pockets, short arms.

Higher rolling resistance and, unless you have a team car, heavier overall cos you have to carry a spare.

inconsequential amount if any and nope. a can of Pit Stop is all you need.

First.Aspect

MattFalle said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

MattFalle said:

rick_chasey said:

lol tubs I am not a mad man. I am a guy riding a 2011 bike in 2021. What makes you think I am the kind of person who rides tubs?

why would you be a mad man to ride tubs?

gen question

'cos i is a cheapskate?

You know what they say about the Dutch. Deep pockets, short arms.

Higher rolling resistance and, unless you have a team car, heavier overall cos you have to carry a spare.

inconsequential amount if any and nope. a can of Pit Stop is all you need.

I have run flats on my car. Expensive and ruin the ride by all accounts. With my last car, which had chiropractor sponsored suspension I was fleetingly tempted to do what they say on the bimmer forums and get normal tyres and an inflation kit.

Then I decided not to BECAUSE I AM NOT AN IDIOT

bobones

Tubs will be as rare as rim brakes in the pro peloton within the next couple of years. MVDP was using tubeless 23mm Vittoria Corsa Speed G2.0s in his TT the other day. So much for wide tyres too.

hopkinb

Prime black 60's or similar. Whoooosh. Ignore the whooosh haters, they probably have rod brakes and cork blocks, and only one ENORMOUS gear, and a sprung saddle, and woollen shorts.

Cross tail wind and those rims act as actual sails. For the £700 I paid for my set, I get a lot of joy out of them. My brother got some 38's from Malcolm @ cycleclinic- he says they're OK, but there's no way the whooosh is comparable. Only downside is buying 10 80mm valve inner tubes when they come in stock so I never have to deal with valve extenders again.

I see they actually discontinued the 60's and only do 50's now. For more dough. Bloody gougers.

Ben6899

Yeh not sure how the industry managed to convince the market that wider tyres and wheels are more aerodynamic…

First.Aspect

It's a fact. UFOs are all saucer shaped and stubby. Nothing like our primitive pointy shaped aeroplanes.

Ben6899

Yebbut why would you increase the amount of leading edge hitting the wind?

What’s more aero, a katana or a brick?

hopkinb

Ben6899 said:

Yeh not sure how the industry managed to convince the market that wider tyres and wheels are more aerodynamic…

I'm pretty big, it's my broad shouldered, fat gutted bulk that's creating wind resistance, even with a slammed stem and deep rimmed wheels. I do, however, believe deeply in the whoooosh, but draw the line at aero bars, because literally, no whooosh, and less than 50 cm away from those bars is me, blocking my progress. Though if I were given to doing puppy paws, they do look more comfy for that.

Ben6899

hopkinb said:

Ben6899 said:

Yeh not sure how the industry managed to convince the market that wider tyres and wheels are more aerodynamic…

I'm pretty big, it's my broad shouldered, fat gutted bulk that's creating wind resistance, even with a slammed stem and deep rimmed wheels. I do, however, believe deeply in the whoooosh, but draw the line at aero bars, because literally, no whooosh, and less than 50 cm away from those bars is me, blocking my progress. Though if I were given to doing puppy paws, they do look more comfy for that.

Every little helps, Hoppy!

First.Aspect

Ben6899 said:

Yebbut why would you increase the amount of leading edge hitting the wind?

What’s more aero, a katana or a brick?

A UFO. Has to be.

First.Aspect

hopkinb said:

Ben6899 said:

Yeh not sure how the industry managed to convince the market that wider tyres and wheels are more aerodynamic…

I'm pretty big, it's my broad shouldered, fat gutted bulk that's creating wind resistance, even with a slammed stem and deep rimmed wheels. I do, however, believe deeply in the whoooosh, but draw the line at aero bars, because literally, no whooosh, and less than 50 cm away from those bars is me, blocking my progress. Though if I were given to doing puppy paws, they do look more comfy for that.

If you wear a giant bulbous helmet it will smooth the air flow over your shoulders. Zipp said so.

hopkinb

First.Aspect said:

Ben6899 said:

Yebbut why would you increase the amount of leading edge hitting the wind?

What’s more aero, a katana or a brick?

A UFO. Has to be.

Ufos are powered by technology that p!sses on air resistance. They don't care what shape they are. If they can get to light speed, then noodling around, picking up hicks for @n@l probing over Illinois, aero doesn't matter.

First.Aspect

hopkinb said:

First.Aspect said:

Ben6899 said:

Yebbut why would you increase the amount of leading edge hitting the wind?

What’s more aero, a katana or a brick?

A UFO. Has to be.

Ufos are powered by technology that p!sses on air resistance. They don't care what shape they are. If they can get to light speed, then noodling around, picking up hicks for @n@l probing over Illinois, aero doesn't matter.

Yeah but they make a better whooshing sound than an aeroplane and who doesn't like that?

ugo.santalucia

rick_chasey said:

ugo.santalucia said:

What kind of difference are you looking for? Half a Km/h is as much as you can gain, is it enough to make you invest?

Just a noticeable difference in sensation when I ride (for the positive).

Not actually looking for free km/h. I am not quite that naïve. "Feeling faster" is quite sufficient.

You won't feel faster by going half a km/h faster. If you want the fast feeling, then you need some seriously deep rims, not because they are a lot faster, but because the air sounds different when trapped in those big pipes... the woshh thing, which is nice. You need at least 60 mm rims, at least, obviously a rear disc wheel is a lot louder.

Otherwise no difference in feel... although if you have big thick spokes and go for a set with light butted spokes, they will feel smoother and different.

First.Aspect

If you want whoosh then don't buy Mavic. They fill theirs with foam.

rick_chasey

First.Aspect said:

If you want whoosh then don't buy Mavic. They fill theirs with foam.

Any reason?

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

If you want whoosh then don't buy Mavic. They fill theirs with foam.

Any reason?

According to Mavic its structural and doesn't add much weight. Possibly the idea is to be able to make do with less material in the outer layers. I could also see that it might reduce the pivoting effect you get between the contact patch and spoke bed, that reduces stiffness of deeper dish wheels.

They might just have wanted to stop them filling with water.

MattFalle

bobones said:

Tubs will be as rare as rim brakes in the pro peloton within the next couple of years. MVDP was using tubeless 23mm Vittoria Corsa Speed G2.0s in his TT the other day. So much for wide tyres too.

Nah fam.

tubs for purists.

enjoy it while you can.