Flying to outer space

13468918

Comments

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,216
    edited July 2021

    pblakeney said:

    We can agree that there are savings but no point in exaggerating those savings. Might only be 10%

    you think that reusing the rocket rather than crashing it into the Atantic would only save you 10%

    see my chart above, if you want to put a satellite into orbit then Ariane will charge you $9k per kilo whereas Falcon Heavy is $1.4k
    Is that run at a profit or even break even?

    Tesla have a habit of selling things at a loss.
    I could keep posting stuff but it will not change your mind. I would not buy Tesla shares but I do believe that reusing rockets makes them considerably cheaper
    Fair. I think he's an absolute crook and he glides on a carpet of air blown by stans who don't get how he's really made his money.

    To be clear, if I had the money I would put it with the fund managers who are short Telsa and I believe it to be the next wirecard, not the next coming.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867

    pblakeney said:

    We can agree that there are savings but no point in exaggerating those savings. Might only be 10%

    you think that reusing the rocket rather than crashing it into the Atantic would only save you 10%

    see my chart above, if you want to put a satellite into orbit then Ariane will charge you $9k per kilo whereas Falcon Heavy is $1.4k
    Is that run at a profit or even break even?

    Tesla have a habit of selling things at a loss.
    I could keep posting stuff but it will not change your mind. I would not buy Tesla shares but I do believe that reusing rockets makes them considerably cheaper
    Fair. I think he's an absolute crook and he glides on a carpet of air blown by stans who don't get how he's really made his money.
    Crook seems a little harsh but (like Branson) there does seem to be a lot of smoke and mirrors and showmanship.

    But landing rockets on a small pad from tens of thousands of miles in the sky is very clever
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211
    Couldn't you say the same about capitalism in general? It's all based on confidence.

    Look at the financial crisis? It was created by a load of confidence tricksters typing on keyboards pushing virtual money/debt about. Didn't Michael Bury basically short the banks too!!??
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    two things jump out at me
    Why is it only China recalling his cars
    He is very like Boris Johnson
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867

    Couldn't you say the same about capitalism in general? It's all based on confidence.

    Look at the financial crisis? It was created by a load of confidence tricksters typing on keyboards pushing virtual money/debt about. Didn't Michael Bury basically short the banks too!!??
    No to all three questions

    and whilst Bury did anticipate the fall in the housing market it does not follow that he will be right in future predictions
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211

    Couldn't you say the same about capitalism in general? It's all based on confidence.

    Look at the financial crisis? It was created by a load of confidence tricksters typing on keyboards pushing virtual money/debt about. Didn't Michael Bury basically short the banks too!!??
    No to all three questions

    Well that's p1$$ed on my chips!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,216

    pblakeney said:

    We can agree that there are savings but no point in exaggerating those savings. Might only be 10%

    you think that reusing the rocket rather than crashing it into the Atantic would only save you 10%

    see my chart above, if you want to put a satellite into orbit then Ariane will charge you $9k per kilo whereas Falcon Heavy is $1.4k
    Is that run at a profit or even break even?

    Tesla have a habit of selling things at a loss.
    I could keep posting stuff but it will not change your mind. I would not buy Tesla shares but I do believe that reusing rockets makes them considerably cheaper
    Fair. I think he's an absolute crook and he glides on a carpet of air blown by stans who don't get how he's really made his money.
    Crook seems a little harsh but (like Branson) there does seem to be a lot of smoke and mirrors and showmanship.

    But landing rockets on a small pad from tens of thousands of miles in the sky is very clever
    if you can be bothered, take a look at Tesla's account receivables vs revenue. They have *very* aggressive approach to recognising revenues and the disparity between the two is your classic accounting fraud red flag (as I understand it).

    When you look at the breakdown of where they are making profits, bizarrely, it is often not the selling of cars that accounts for the profit, but weird FX calls or bitcoin investments or all sorts.

  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211

    pblakeney said:

    We can agree that there are savings but no point in exaggerating those savings. Might only be 10%

    you think that reusing the rocket rather than crashing it into the Atantic would only save you 10%

    see my chart above, if you want to put a satellite into orbit then Ariane will charge you $9k per kilo whereas Falcon Heavy is $1.4k
    Is that run at a profit or even break even?

    Tesla have a habit of selling things at a loss.
    I could keep posting stuff but it will not change your mind. I would not buy Tesla shares but I do believe that reusing rockets makes them considerably cheaper
    Fair. I think he's an absolute crook and he glides on a carpet of air blown by stans who don't get how he's really made his money.
    Crook seems a little harsh but (like Branson) there does seem to be a lot of smoke and mirrors and showmanship.

    But landing rockets on a small pad from tens of thousands of miles in the sky is very clever
    if you can be bothered, take a look at Tesla's account receivables vs revenue. They have *very* aggressive approach to recognising revenues and the disparity between the two is your classic accounting fraud red flag (as I understand it).

    When you look at the breakdown of where they are making profits, bizarrely, it is often not the selling of cars that accounts for the profit, but weird FX calls or bitcoin investments or all sorts.

    They genuinely want to make good cars though and push EV's forward, It's not some scam to make money. Look at the charging network they are creating around the world, it's very good and regarded as much better than the competitor currently.

    What do you think about Star Link by the way? The extremely quick latency and the impact on the City?

    If you can't make trades as quickly aren't you dead?

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,216
    edited July 2021

    Couldn't you say the same about capitalism in general? It's all based on confidence.

    Look at the financial crisis? It was created by a load of confidence tricksters typing on keyboards pushing virtual money/debt about. Didn't Michael Bury basically short the banks too!!??
    No. Some firms make money. Some firms lose money.

    Some firms lose money but are clever at looking like they make money, so they keep getting investment money, and the lie gets bigger until it all falls over and everyone gets hurt and the fraudsters make off with a fortune they haven't earned.

    That is why it is illegal.

    Banks are a slightly different kettle of fish, and are a rather unique business model and hold a particular role in an economy.

  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211
    edited July 2021
    At least Musk is trying to create products and push things forward, rather many play with virtual money. His agenda is to make sure the companies survive amongst a load of speculators making nothing physical of value.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,216

    At least Musk is trying to create products and push things forward, rather many play with virtual money. His agenda is to make sure the companies survive amongst a load of speculators making nothing physical of value.

    The investors have made him rich, the least he can do is run the business profitably and be honest about it.

    Without those investors he wouldn't have the billions to spend on phallic like projects.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,039
    edited July 2021

    pblakeney said:

    We can agree that there are savings but no point in exaggerating those savings. Might only be 10%

    you think that reusing the rocket rather than crashing it into the Atantic would only save you 10%

    see my chart above, if you want to put a satellite into orbit then Ariane will charge you $9k per kilo whereas Falcon Heavy is $1.4k
    No I don't. I was using a ridiculous figure to make a point.
    80% of equipment is reusable. Take into account the retrieval costs, refurbishment costs, refuelling costs and the savings cannot be 80%.
    There will be savings, but not 80% as was originally claimed.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211

    At least Musk is trying to create products and push things forward, rather many play with virtual money. His agenda is to make sure the companies survive amongst a load of speculators making nothing physical of value.

    The investors have made him rich, the least he can do is run the business profitably and be honest about it.

    Without those investors he wouldn't have the billions to spend on phallic like projects.
    Google wasn't making a profit for ages, now look at it. Also what incredible services they have provided the World. I know for sure you are using it every single day. DAY!
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211
    D A Y !
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211
    What do you think about Star Link by the way? The extremely quick latency and the impact on the City?

    If you can't make trades as quickly aren't you dead?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,216
    Check out the "Toxic fandom and misinformation" bit of the wiki link :)
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211

    Check out the "Toxic fandom and misinformation" bit of the wiki link :)

    No, don't want to.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,216

    Check out the "Toxic fandom and misinformation" bit of the wiki link :)

    No, don't want to.
    :#:D
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211
    On a scale of greatest human beings to ever have existed in the existence of uprightedness, Elon Musk must be towards the top of that list. Well, apart from that time he went a bit nuts about our diving pot hole bloke.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,216
    On starlink by the way, my boss has it as he's in some remote country home and it's not great - he's always having problems with it.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,811

    On starlink by the way, my boss has it as he's in some remote country home and it's not great - he's always having problems with it.

    He'll be able to get One Web soon.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    pblakeney said:

    pblakeney said:

    We can agree that there are savings but no point in exaggerating those savings. Might only be 10%

    you think that reusing the rocket rather than crashing it into the Atantic would only save you 10%

    see my chart above, if you want to put a satellite into orbit then Ariane will charge you $9k per kilo whereas Falcon Heavy is $1.4k
    No I don't. I was using a ridiculous figure to make a point.
    80% of equipment is reusable. Take into account the retrieval costs, refurbishment costs, refuelling costs and the savings cannot be 80%.
    There will be savings, but not 80% as was originally claimed.
    Launch Vehicle Payload cost per kg
    Vanguard $1,000,000 [19]
    Space Shuttle $54,500 [19]
    Electron $19,039 [20][21]
    Terran 1 $9,600 [22]
    Ariane 5G $9,167 [19]
    Long March 3B $4,412 [19]
    Proton $4,320 [19]
    Falcon 9 $2,720 [23]
    Falcon Heavy $1,400 [23]
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211
    edited July 2021

    On starlink by the way, my boss has it as he's in some remote country home and it's not great - he's always having problems with it.

    Early days though, evolution. When those laser beams start firing at each other (satellites) and the problems get sorted, the low latency will be a big benefit for niche requirement.
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    On Starlink, i think astronomers aren't too happy with it.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,216

    On a scale of greatest human beings to ever have existed in the existence of uprightedness, Elon Musk must be towards the top of that list. Well, apart from that time he went a bit nuts about our diving pot hole bloke.

    It may or may not come as a surprise that it's widely shared in dating circles that saying Musk is some great man is a red flag and a sign to avoid the bloke saying it.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211

    On a scale of greatest human beings to ever have existed in the existence of uprightedness, Elon Musk must be towards the top of that list. Well, apart from that time he went a bit nuts about our diving pot hole bloke.

    It may or may not come as a surprise that it's widely shared in dating circles that saying Musk is some great man is a red flag and a sign to avoid the bloke saying it.
    Well that's not very nice!
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,211
    Tesla Inc.’s profit topped $1 billion for the first time in the company’s history and its sales nearly doubled, zooming past Wall Street expectations, but there was no stock rally late Monday as “limited” battery supply and the ongoing chip shortage crimped the Silicon Valley electric-car maker’s output and forced it to delay the launch of its commercial truck.

    Tesla TSLA, +2.21% said it earned $1.14 billion, or $1.02 a share, in the second quarter, compared with $104 million, or 10 cents a share, in the year-ago quarter. Adjusted for one-time items, the company earned $1.45 a share.

    Revenue rose 98% to $11.96 billion, from $6.04 billion a year ago, which the company pinned in part on “substantial growth” in vehicle sales.


    Analysts polled by FactSet expected Tesla to report adjusted earnings of 94 cents a share on sales of $11.51 billion in the quarter. Monday’s results marked the eighth straight GAAP and adjusted quarterly profit for the company. But Tesla shares gained only 1% in after-hours trading.

    The chip shortage “remains quite serious,” Chief Executive Elon Musk said in a call after the results. “The chip supply is fundamentally the governing factor on our output,” and it’s hard to say how long it will last because it’s out of Tesla’s control, he said.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tesla-q2-sales-nearly-double-stock-rises-11627330558
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,216
    edited July 2021
    Mate enjoy Stanning Musk.

    The firm’s success is not yours unless you’ve got money invested.

    If you do, good on you, you’ll have made some stunning returns.

    Plenty of people think it’s great and a notable minority think it is the next Wirecard.

    It will come out in the wash.

    I once had a client where people would come out and suggest there was some “aggressive” accounting practices, similar to what is being suggested happens at Tesla. That was my call to pull the ripcord and stop working with them. (That and they regularly screwed me on fees)

    Sure enough, it basically went bust 2 years later.