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I thought covid would improve motorist and cyclist interaction. I was wrong.

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  • morstarmorstar Posts: 4,326
    What amazed me when home video and dash cam footage became prevalent is exactly how many vehicles get hit whilst stopped on the hard shoulder.
    If stationary vehicles are getting hit on the hard shoulder as regularly as they are, it is clear there is an inherent risk in being slow or at a standstill on high speed routes.
    The only thing that grant you any particular extra safety is size.
  • thistle_thistle_ Posts: 5,145
    cruff said:

    How about fixing the actual problem (driver education, enforced speed limits, police awareness bulletins, punishing local rags for putting this bollocks out etc) instead of penalising people for doing what is, in essence, far safer than a single carriageway TT?

    When highways England wanted to ban cycling on that really fast dual carriageway up by Hull for safety, I suggested to them that banning all the motor vehicles would make it much safer for everyone :smiley:
    I didn't get a response to my point, but they backed down on the ban (after CTT agreed not to use that course again).
  • thistle_thistle_ Posts: 5,145
    Cargobike said:

    Several things don't add up about that news story: presumably the TT was being run first thing or in the evening when the road is quieter? Rear lights are compulsory now so there shouldn't have been any riders without lights. The number of riders sounds surprisingly large too given the current covid rules, but a hater sees a couple of cyclists and tells everyone there were hundreds of them :confused:

    I've checked the details, there were 100 riders listed to start, approx 10 did not start and their start times were from just after 12am through to 2pm on Saturday afternoon. 100 miles over 4 x 25mile laps.

    https://cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/race-details/19715

    I didn't realise it was a 100 miler, might explain the daft start time to try and get it finished before dark.
  • oxoman said:

    May not see many cyclists on the A50 however shed loads of slower moving tractors and trailers go along this particular section. I would sooner take my chances on the A50 than the A515 to Ashbourne on a wkday.


    Oh, there are some single-carriageway A-roads I'd avoid too.

    I did this video years ago when someone was musing about doing LEJOG using the A30 in Devon.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 15,236

    Cargobike said:

    Several things don't add up about that news story: presumably the TT was being run first thing or in the evening when the road is quieter? Rear lights are compulsory now so there shouldn't have been any riders without lights. The number of riders sounds surprisingly large too given the current covid rules, but a hater sees a couple of cyclists and tells everyone there were hundreds of them :confused:

    I've checked the details, there were 100 riders listed to start, approx 10 did not start and their start times were from just after 12am through to 2pm on Saturday afternoon. 100 miles over 4 x 25mile laps.

    https://cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/race-details/19715

    I didn't realise it was a 100 miler, might explain the daft start time to try and get it finished before dark.
    Would have made much more sense to start ASAP after dawn.
    Inconvenient but more sensible.
    Running them mid afternoon is at best silly, and at worst dangerous.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • thistle_thistle_ Posts: 5,145
    pblakeney said:

    Cargobike said:

    Several things don't add up about that news story: presumably the TT was being run first thing or in the evening when the road is quieter? Rear lights are compulsory now so there shouldn't have been any riders without lights. The number of riders sounds surprisingly large too given the current covid rules, but a hater sees a couple of cyclists and tells everyone there were hundreds of them :confused:

    I've checked the details, there were 100 riders listed to start, approx 10 did not start and their start times were from just after 12am through to 2pm on Saturday afternoon. 100 miles over 4 x 25mile laps.

    https://cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/race-details/19715

    I didn't realise it was a 100 miler, might explain the daft start time to try and get it finished before dark.
    Would have made much more sense to start ASAP after dawn.
    Inconvenient but more sensible.
    Running them mid afternoon is at best silly, and at worst dangerous.
    Yes, 6am would seem more appropriate and it's quite a common start time around here for a time trial.
  • webboowebboo Posts: 3,444
    The irony of TT is that it came about so that racing on the roads didn’t get banned. So it was done in secrecy with courses given code names, riders in black from neck to toe and early morning starts. Now it’s find a fast dual carriageway which means it’s very public.
  • morstarmorstar Posts: 4,326

    cruff said:

    How about fixing the actual problem (driver education, enforced speed limits, police awareness bulletins, punishing local rags for putting this bollocks out etc) instead of penalising people for doing what is, in essence, far safer than a single carriageway TT?

    When highways England wanted to ban cycling on that really fast dual carriageway up by Hull for safety, I suggested to them that banning all the motor vehicles would make it much safer for everyone :smiley:
    I didn't get a response to my point, but they backed down on the ban (after CTT agreed not to use that course again).
    Is that the course where Biablocki did his 16 minute 10?
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 6,800
    edited September 2020
    I've ridden a few TTs on the A50 and while I wouldn't risk it now to be fair the only other dual carriageway course I rode - the A1 Long Bennington - was more dangerous.

    Times change - 20 years ago our local chain gang used the A52 between Derby and Nottm - yes that's in the dark at about 7pm - I remember doing 25mph plus lined out in a group between lines of cars when Derby County had a home game. Madness of course, great fun at the time but a hangover from times when roads were less busy yet cyclists routes habits hadn't changed with the traffic conditions.

    For me DC time trialling is just that - a hangover from the past that is clinging on past its time. I don't buy that DC courses are safe. Just taking the A50 - since I've been riding there have been at least 2 (may be 3) fatalities on it in actual events since I've been riding and several other cyclists killed using it at other times - which given how rare it is to see people riding on it outside of TTs tells you how dangerous it is. Ok the odds are well in your favour but it's purely about artificially fast times due to traffic - why not allow a small electric motor to add say 20 watts and ride on safer roads - effectively it's the same thing you are going faster because you are getting an assist.
    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 15,236
    20W for a 60kgs rider ≠ 20W for an 85kgs rider.
    Hard to implement equally and while it may help, it does not solve the problem.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • pblakeney said:

    20W for a 60kgs rider ≠ 20W for an 85kgs rider.
    Hard to implement equally and while it may help, it does not solve the problem.

    I don't get it. In the Tour and World Champ TTs the riders only seem to care about where they come against the other riders that day, rather than some guy who rode some other course on some other day.

    Why the fixation with absolute times?
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 15,236

    pblakeney said:

    20W for a 60kgs rider ≠ 20W for an 85kgs rider.
    Hard to implement equally and while it may help, it does not solve the problem.

    I don't get it. In the Tour and World Champ TTs the riders only seem to care about where they come against the other riders that day, rather than some guy who rode some other course on some other day.

    Why the fixation with absolute times?
    Eh?
    I was highlighting that the potential aid would not be applied equally to every rider on the day. A 60kgs rider is going to get a bigger boost than his 85kgs competitor.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • pblakeney said:

    pblakeney said:

    20W for a 60kgs rider ≠ 20W for an 85kgs rider.
    Hard to implement equally and while it may help, it does not solve the problem.

    I don't get it. In the Tour and World Champ TTs the riders only seem to care about where they come against the other riders that day, rather than some guy who rode some other course on some other day.

    Why the fixation with absolute times?
    Eh?
    I was highlighting that the potential aid would not be applied equally to every rider on the day. A 60kgs rider is going to get a bigger boost than his 85kgs competitor.
    Oh. Clicked the wrong "quote".
  • sungodsungod Posts: 13,522
    some people need to be more zen

    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 15,236
    sungod said:

    some people need to be more zen

    Strangely compelling viewing.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • veronese68veronese68 Posts: 24,082 Lives Here
    I admire the optimism of the thread title, unfortunately a lot of people are cnuts.
  • pblakeney said:

    sungod said:

    some people need to be more zen

    Strangely compelling viewing.
    It is mesmeric. Dude is a poet.
  • oxoman said:

    I thought covid would improve motorist and cyclist interaction. I was wrong.
    https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/burton/cyclists-racing-a50-branded-selfish-4502986#comments-section

    I had similar hopes during lockdown. I must say I loved the empty roads, wish we could go back to that.
    Everybody had a common enemy, the coronavirus to focus on.
    I don’t know whether it’s just me and my perception, but things seem slightly worse now than before the lockdown. I certainly notice the noise more, I’m sure car tyres didn’t used to be this loud (1960’s and 1970’s).
    As for the article in the Derbyshire Live, I think it borders on incitement to hatred. If the subject had been Muslims or Blacks and not a misrepresented time-trial, action by the authorities would have been swift.
    I’m not going to get into the debate about how wise/not is was to use the A50 dual carriageway, for whatever reason they’ve chosen this route. I defend their right to use this route. Perhaps coning off one lane (a pop-up cycle lane) for cycling only would have been a safer option, certainly worth asking for I think.
  • thistle_thistle_ Posts: 5,145

    Perhaps coning off one lane (a pop-up cycle lane) for cycling only would have been a safer option, certainly worth asking for I think.

    That happened on a dual carriageway time trial I did once (Rainford), except it was the local council who decided to set up some road works and close off a lane 5 minutes after the TT started.

  • nickice said:

    I almost think every driver should have to ride a bike in traffic as part of their training. It might give them some perspective.

    It should be part of the driving test. Saw a TV programme a few years back, which featured a London cabbie, who first gave his option of cyclists, the gist of which you can guess. Then they put him on a bike to see the other side of close passing, being cut up, etc. He was a nervous wreck afterwards!
  • oblongomaculatusoblongomaculatus Posts: 536
    edited September 2020

    nickice said:


    It should be part of the driving test.

    By which I mean drivers should have to ride a bike in traffic as part of learning to drive, tested on it in the driving test, with an automatic fail if they can't to it properly.

    The cab driver seemed to genuinely have no idea what it was like; he also seemed amazed that it takes physical effort to cycle from a standing start. He'd earlier been ranting about how slow cyclists were pulling away at lights.
  • nickice said:

    I almost think every driver should have to ride a bike in traffic as part of their training. It might give them some perspective.

    It should be part of the driving test. Saw a TV programme a few years back, which featured a London cabbie, who first gave his option of cyclists, the gist of which you can guess. Then they put him on a bike to see the other side of close passing, being cut up, etc. He was a nervous wreck afterwards!
    It would be discriminatory though, because not everyone can or is physically able to ride a bike. It is about as realistic a suggestion as saying that everyone should ride a horse as part of their driving test.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 15,236
    edited September 2020

    nickice said:

    I almost think every driver should have to ride a bike in traffic as part of their training. It might give them some perspective.

    It should be part of the driving test. Saw a TV programme a few years back, which featured a London cabbie, who first gave his option of cyclists, the gist of which you can guess. Then they put him on a bike to see the other side of close passing, being cut up, etc. He was a nervous wreck afterwards!
    It would be discriminatory though, because not everyone can or is physically able to ride a bike. It is about as realistic a suggestion as saying that everyone should ride a horse as part of their driving test.
    Give them an e-bike/trike then?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • thistle_thistle_ Posts: 5,145
    pblakeney said:

    nickice said:

    I almost think every driver should have to ride a bike in traffic as part of their training. It might give them some perspective.

    It should be part of the driving test. Saw a TV programme a few years back, which featured a London cabbie, who first gave his option of cyclists, the gist of which you can guess. Then they put him on a bike to see the other side of close passing, being cut up, etc. He was a nervous wreck afterwards!
    It would be discriminatory though, because not everyone can or is physically able to ride a bike. It is about as realistic a suggestion as saying that everyone should ride a horse as part of their driving test.
    Give them an e-bike/trike then?
    Or just sit on a chair while a lorry bombs past at 40 mph about 1 m away from you.
    Could result in someone getting hurt thinking about it.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 15,236
    edited September 2020

    pblakeney said:

    nickice said:

    I almost think every driver should have to ride a bike in traffic as part of their training. It might give them some perspective.

    It should be part of the driving test. Saw a TV programme a few years back, which featured a London cabbie, who first gave his option of cyclists, the gist of which you can guess. Then they put him on a bike to see the other side of close passing, being cut up, etc. He was a nervous wreck afterwards!
    It would be discriminatory though, because not everyone can or is physically able to ride a bike. It is about as realistic a suggestion as saying that everyone should ride a horse as part of their driving test.
    Give them an e-bike/trike then?
    Or just sit on a chair while a lorry bombs past at 40 mph about 1 m away from you.
    Could result in someone getting hurt thinking about it.
    Actual real life test to replicate that which is safe. Stand next to the yellow line on a minor train platform when an intercity rolls through.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • oxoman said:

    I thought covid would improve motorist and cyclist interaction. I was wrong.
    https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/burton/cyclists-racing-a50-branded-selfish-4502986#comments-section

    As for the article in the Derbyshire Live, I think it borders on incitement to hatred. If the subject had been Muslims or Blacks and not a misrepresented time-trial, action by the authorities would have been swift.
    If you are ever unlucky enough to read any of the comments section of this rag you'll quickly realise that they couldn't care less about open racism, sexism and misogny either.

    They thrive on clickbait headlines in an attempt to gain through traffic and anti-cycling drivel seems to unleash torrents of comments from their readership.

    Weirdly though when cycling round the city itself aggresion to cyclists seems to have dropped, it's just the busy cycling routes which attract the dickheads.

  • cruffcruff Posts: 1,517

    Perhaps coning off one lane (a pop-up cycle lane) for cycling only would have been a safer option, certainly worth asking for I think.

    That happened on a dual carriageway time trial I did once (Rainford), except it was the local council who decided to set up some road works and close off a lane 5 minutes after the TT started.

    Ha - that's my local 10. With its own peculiar micro-climate - but its far safer than most of the other D or L courses
    Fat chopper. Some racing. Some testing. Some crashing.
    Specialising in Git Daaahns and Cafs. Norvern Munkey/Transplanted Laaandoner.
  • oxomanoxoman Posts: 9,259
    Cargo, problem with them recently is they don't always leave you the option to comment on real issues. They're definitely in a league of there own on click baiting.
    Too many bikes according to Mrs O.
  • thistle_thistle_ Posts: 5,145
    cruff said:

    Perhaps coning off one lane (a pop-up cycle lane) for cycling only would have been a safer option, certainly worth asking for I think.

    That happened on a dual carriageway time trial I did once (Rainford), except it was the local council who decided to set up some road works and close off a lane 5 minutes after the TT started.

    Ha - that's my local 10. With its own peculiar micro-climate - but its far safer than most of the other D or L courses
    Yeah it's surprisingly pleasant given that it includes a motorway junction, but it's never been busy when I've ridden on it. You just get lots of odd looks from motorists coming off the motorway while doing the U turn at the roundabout.
    I think the worst bit about the 10 course is the country lane to the start/finish because cars overtake when it's not safe to.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 54,782 Lives Here
    edited September 2020
    A passing comment here; riders and drivers who record things on their little stasi cameras and then sell them to the press - they're not making things any better, the little sh!ts.

    If you really feel it's important to record things for when things go wrong, then at least have the good grace not to share it with anyone other than the police and if required the insurers.
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