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Zone 6: the thread that got deleted

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  • simon_esimon_e Posts: 1,692

    Yeah, but it's been very cold of late... I'd rather sacrifice 5 seconds to avoid freezing to death waiting for my start.

    Totally agree. Not suggesting you shiver your way through the first half of a race. I meant for days when you could manage with just a tight jersey (+baselayer?) and armwarmers.

    You may find a s/h skinsuit at a reasonable price, though probably not one with a pocket. It would save more time than most other things you could buy but in the end this is a leisure pursuit, not a career.
    Aspire not to have more, but to be more.
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,432
    simon_e said:

    Yeah, but it's been very cold of late... I'd rather sacrifice 5 seconds to avoid freezing to death waiting for my start.

    Totally agree. Not suggesting you shiver your way through the first half of a race. I meant for days when you could manage with just a tight jersey (+baselayer?) and armwarmers.

    You may find a s/h skinsuit at a reasonable price, though probably not one with a pocket. It would save more time than most other things you could buy but in the end this is a leisure pursuit, not a career.
    Not a race winning mentality.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143
    edited 2 June
  • simon_esimon_e Posts: 1,692

    Not a race winning mentality.

    Ha ha, love it! Where's the the "piss myself laughing" emoji?

    He is riding a standard road bike wearing a jacket. I suspect he's not taking himself that seriously.

    And he probably doesn't want to throw ca. £5,000 at a bike, wheels, tyres, clothing and coaching just to get his name a few places further up the result sheet.
    Aspire not to have more, but to be more.
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 4,114
    simon_e said:

    Not a race winning mentality.

    Ha ha, love it! Where's the the "piss myself laughing" emoji?

    He is riding a standard road bike wearing a jacket. I suspect he's not taking himself that seriously.

    And he probably doesn't want to throw ca. £5,000 at a bike, wheels, tyres, clothing and coaching just to get his name a few places further up the result sheet.
    he also doesn't have to spend anything like that at all to get further into the sport if he spends wisely.

    chuck 500 notes at it is all he needs.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143
    edited 2 June
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143
    edited 2 June
  • whyamiherewhyamihere Posts: 7,465

    Well...

    The K11/10 course turned up to be slightly less fast that I thought, the way back from the A45/A445 roundabout has quite a hill. Nonetheless, I clocked my first 24, a long 24, should be 24:47 at 24.5 mph (Strava time is wrong, as I started the computer about a minute before I set off and clearly I was already on the segment). It took a whopping 261 Watt to get there. I reckon on a flatter course I should be able to do a long 23... just need to find that course... ha ha

    It was a bit warmer today, so no jacket and to please Shirley Basso, I think all photos should see me on the drops...

    Simon is right, I don't really want to spend a penny to be more aero, it's just not worth it, as I will never qualify for a National championship in time trialling, so why bother? Different story in Hill Climbing, where I can do better and I am happy to spend moderate cash to lighten up things.
    Besides, I think I have a long way to go improving my time trialling position on a road bike.

    https://www.strava.com/activities/5228483922

    On the bolded bits, it can be the case that being on the hoods with flat forearms is slightly faster than being on the drops, because it takes your forearms out of the wind - Same idea as the forearms on the tops but a wider stance and still legal. It's a difficult position to hold though, your triceps will be making themselves known until you get used to it.
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,432
    simon_e said:

    Not a race winning mentality.

    Ha ha, love it! Where's the the "piss myself laughing" emoji?

    He is riding a standard road bike wearing a jacket. I suspect he's not taking himself that seriously.

    And he probably doesn't want to throw ca. £5,000 at a bike, wheels, tyres, clothing and coaching just to get his name a few places further up the result sheet.
    It was a joke.

    Although I do appreciate I have often not got jokes on here!
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143
    edited 2 June
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143
    edited 2 June
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143
    edited 2 June
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143
    edited 2 June
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143
    edited 2 June
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 4,114

    Well...

    The K11/10 course turned up to be slightly less fast that I thought, the way back from the A45/A445 roundabout has quite a hill. Nonetheless, I clocked my first 24, a long 24, should be 24:47 at 24.5 mph (Strava time is wrong, as I started the computer about a minute before I set off and clearly I was already on the segment). It took a whopping 261 Watt to get there. I reckon on a flatter course I should be able to do a long 23... just need to find that course... ha ha

    It was a bit warmer today, so no jacket and to please Shirley Basso, I think all photos should see me on the drops...

    Simon is right, I don't really want to spend a penny to be more aero, it's just not worth it, as I will never qualify for a National championship in time trialling, so why bother? Different story in Hill Climbing, where I can do better and I am happy to spend moderate cash to lighten up things.
    Besides, I think I have a long way to go improving my time trialling position on a road bike.

    https://www.strava.com/activities/5228483922

    On the bolded bits, it can be the case that being on the hoods with flat forearms is slightly faster than being on the drops, because it takes your forearms out of the wind - Same idea as the forearms on the tops but a wider stance and still legal. It's a difficult position to hold though, your triceps will be making themselves known until you get used to it.
    Yeahbbut, what would Alf Engers say?


    i reckon it would be mega if someone came up with an equation to be able to measure Alf Enger's stats and times against modern day cyclerists.
  • webboowebboo Posts: 3,456
    Do you he would have gone faster if he had slammed that stem. ;)
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143
    edited 2 June
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 9,727

    A diet of unstructured non-interval type of riding seems to be working. I'm doing a mix of 10 mile TT racing and training sessions consisting of reasonably paced rides with 1-3 full on efforts of 1-2 minutes (400-500 Watt).
    At the moment, all numbers are up from last year, including the coveted 20 minute thing.
    I just need a few races to build up my qualifying portfolio. I have entered a race in the Peak District at the end of June... should be a sub 3 minute hill, on a good day. I really need a good result!
    Beating Simon Warren would be even better, but I suspect that won't happen...

    Don't the 1-3 full on efforts count as intervals? Actually sounds fairly structured to me - mix of 20ish min threshold intervals and shorter VO2 intervals. I guess unstructured in that they aren't part of a wider plan etc.
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 4,114
    edited 27 May
    webboo said:

    Do you he would have gone faster if he had slammed that stem. ;)

    deffo. FACT

    very good point well presented.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143
    edited 2 June
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143
    edited 2 June
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 4,114
    difference between brute strength and ignorance and developments.

    they also used to take cocktails of brandy and amphetamines, so lets not say anything.

    Slammed stems have been scientifically proven. FACT
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143
    edited 2 June
  • webboowebboo Posts: 3,456

    A diet of unstructured non-interval type of riding seems to be working. I'm doing a mix of 10 mile TT racing and training sessions consisting of reasonably paced rides with 1-3 full on efforts of 1-2 minutes (400-500 Watt).
    At the moment, all numbers are up from last year, including the coveted 20 minute thing.
    I just need a few races to build up my qualifying portfolio. I have entered a race in the Peak District at the end of June... should be a sub 3 minute hill, on a good day. I really need a good result!
    Beating Simon Warren would be even better, but I suspect that won't happen...

    Don't the 1-3 full on efforts count as intervals? Actually sounds fairly structured to me - mix of 20ish min threshold intervals and shorter VO2 intervals. I guess unstructured in that they aren't part of a wider plan etc.
    You could see it like that, but it's a far cry from the hill reps or series of intervals... I just don't see the point in doing many sub-standard efforts... I'd rather do one and for all, like it was a race... I think it's a more effective way to boost that zone 7. I just fail to see how I can get to 500 Watt in a race if I do hill reps at 320.
    I should also rename this thread, as it's really a zone 7 effort, if one wants to get anywhere
    Should you not be trying to get over 500 watts for a shorter than race distance and repeat that so many times in training. I always thought that you needed to include shorter faster intervals in your training so you can actually ride at speed you want to in your race.
    In other wards how could you expect to ride at 25 mph in a TT if you never ridden this fast in training.
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 4,114

    MattFalle said:

    difference between brute strength and ignorance and developments.

    they also used to take cocktails of brandy and amphetamines, so lets not say anything.

    Slammed stems have been scientifically proven. FACT

    Read the book and stop talking censored ... Paul Jones "I like Alf"

    oh don't wring your hands in jingoistic ire and please don't swear at me.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 9,727
    Geometries are also different for TTs these days... lower front end but further forward for a more open hip angle - so you wouldn't be twatting yourself in the stomach.

    Like this


  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143
    edited 2 June
  • webboowebboo Posts: 3,456
    You really don’t want any advice that might mean you have change training. You just look for examples that might back up your thinking.
    I hope it works for your hill climbing for your sake. However it isn’t working for the time trials.
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 4,114
    webboo said:

    You really don’t want any advice that might mean you have change training. You just look for examples that might back up your thinking.
    I hope it works for your hill climbing for your sake. However it isn’t working for the time trials.

    this.

    its the same as the convo we had about tapping up that geezer who was going for the hour world record and who had tt'd for 30 years and won shed loads - constant excuses, talking a good ride, but nothing happening.

    it seems that yup, unless you agree exactly to his ideas, you're dismissed. Same as the old " oh, you need H Plus Son" line....
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143
    edited 2 June
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