Race or aero geometry

Intake

Hello guys,

Iam searching for a bike to go fast (>100km - lots of uphills)

Iam running a fitness bike right now with 105 groupset (50-34 - 11-32)

The budget is around 1500Euro and iam thinking brands like merida - Alu - 52-36 groupset.

Can someone with race-aero geometry experience, tells what he dont like at their bikes?

Is there an online Europe-shop that accepts creditcard- pay in doses, from other countries? ( Iam from Greece)

Thanks and have a nice day !

cougie

Spending 1500 doesn't guarantee a faster bike.

105 is fine.

Spend the cash on training or coaching.

imposter2.0

Race geometry is aero geometry - unless I've missed something. Aero bikes are characterized by their shape, not by their geometry.

Matthewfalle

€1500 = this

https://www.planetx.co.uk/c/q/bikes/roa ... -aero-road


job jobbed. in fact, jobs a fish

#pescararocks

Intake

#coogie race geometry - aero bike doesnt have faster geometry from my fitness bike?

#Imposter i mean : i should choose race geometry bike like e.g. scultura or aero bike like reacto ?

#Matthewfalle seems very good ! thanks !

imposter2.0

Intake wrote:

#Imposter i mean : i should choose race geometry bike like e.g. scultura or aero bike like reacto ?

The point I'm making (or trying to make) is that they are both 'race' geometry.

Matthewfalle

Intake wrote:

#coogie race geometry - aero bike doesnt have faster geometry from my fitness bike?

#Imposter i mean : i should choose race geometry bike like e.g. scultura or aero bike like reacto ?

#Matthewfalle seems very good ! thanks !

pleasure - no problem

very good aero bike, very good value for money, good site to deal with.

#speedyaero

cougie

An aero bike is absolutely minimal improvement. Even on the TdF riders don't always use them.

As someone who's had bikes over 30 years now - it's really not about the bike. It's the rider.

Intake

#Imposter yes they both race geometry but they different i think.

#Cougie yes u have right, i know that 70% legs 30% bike but i wish to use that 30% .
For sure i dont know nothing about cycling .. i just ride 2 years and my first bike is not 100% road. i know with road geometry i will go faster at uphills and be more aerodynamic at flats..

So my though is to bypass the endurance geometry and go for race.. i dont know what fits better to me. comfort or better speed ( with all disanvantages).

Thats iam asking someone who rides different bikes.. to share his experience..

mfin

Within road bikes, once you know your fit, you're only looking at the geometry and dimensions of a bike to ascertain if you can obtain your fit on it.

Think of it that if you're doing it right, and you had the same handlebars and saddle, if you sat on all bikes that were set up for you then you would not be able to tell which is which sat on them with your eyes shut.

People setting out don't seem to understand this.

There are some people who subscribe to a different position (different fit) on some styles of bike, but for most people when your fit is right, your fit is right and they'll want the same on all their road bikes.

When you know your fit and how to transfer that exact triangle (triangle of bars to saddle to bottom bracket) onto any prospective purchase, you can work out if that bike comes in a size where you can sensibly get your fit. That means ascertaining it won't need a daftly long or short stem, no seatpost showing, things like that.

Of course, this won't help anyone who hasn't set about working out and recording their fit. Plus, even if you pay for a fit there's often a process of tweaking it and recording what it is over the years. Remember no two fitters would give you the same fit so you can learn by intuitive tweaking.

You also don't necessarily need lots of numbers written down, you can replace that with simply knowing that your fit is bang on on one bike, knowing its geometry chart and taking a tape measure to various points (saddle, bars, plumb line to bb etc) of the bike that's right to suss out how that will work on a prospective new bike.

This probably won't make too much sense to some people who haven't yet thought of it this way, but to some of them it might help them have an aha moment.

w00dster

MFIN is correct to a point, but misses the different angles and top tube lengths that aero/race bike have.

w00dster

Damn posted before I finished. Also aero bikes and race bikes tend to have different head tube lengths to endurance bikes.
I ride Trek H1 fit, race fit and also have their H2 fit of the same bike and there is a difference. It’s not just about getting the same triangle when the angles of the top tube and head tube are working against you.
I also have a canyon Aeroad and this has a low head tube and long top tube, it can almost feel twitchy because of the angles, but that’s a feeling that after one ride becomes natural.
The problem with aero bikes in my opinion is that you need to spend more than your budget to get the full gain, where as you can pick up a Supersix or a CAAD 12 which are great bikes for your budget. MF’s example is a top bike, but you need to spend another £500 on wheels and possibly bars to get a genuine aero bike.

kingrollo

In the long run you will go faster on a bike that is more comfortable.

I would get your leg over a giant defy \ contend - which is very relaxed position. If you want to go longer and lower get a look at geometry charts of prospective bike - and look and the reach and TT length (or virtual TT for sloping frames)

If you just want to go faster - find a club or group and then a training ride which pushes you (but doesn't blow you out totally) - On such rides you will probably encounter so faster guys on 'unsexy' bikes. food for thought.

Intake

#Kingrollo As iam thinking my fitness is more comfort from roadies... so u tell me that with a race road bike with 52-36 and more aerodynamic position will go slower than my fitness upright position with 50-34 groupset?

what numbers should i check for reach n stack?

Its good idea to go rides with others, u will improve your skills... i wish u mean i will go faster without slipstream.. cause i usually go alone..

#Woodster i like these 2 bikes and i will put them as potential buys... i already have a Cann. Quick 1 , thx.

kingrollo

Intake wrote:

#Kingrollo As iam thinking my fitness is more comfort from roadies... so u tell me that with a race road bike with 52-36 and more aerodynamic position will go slower than my fitness upright position with 50-34 groupset?

what numbers should i check for reach n stack?

Its good idea to go rides with others, u will improve your skills... i wish u mean i will go faster without slipstream.. cause i usually go alone..

#Woodster i like these 2 bikes and i will put them as potential buys... i already have a Cann. Quick 1 , thx.

Sorry - to clarify in IMO - I wouldn't want to get into an aero position that made me uncomfortable - but I am an older guy. If I am comfortable (in relative terms) I can put more effort in - without shuffling backwards and forwards trying to find the sweet spot. I guess it depends on what type of riding you do.

Reach and stack will be particular to you - if you find a reach of 385 put you on your limit - then don't go buying a bike with a much longer reach.

Slipstream is of course a factor in group rides - but I also think there is a tad extra motivation to hang on - or get back with group should you slip of the back for any reason.

It might be an idea to find a good local bike shop - tell them what you want to achieve and see what they say.

Intake

#kingrollo i dont know what is this uncomfotable... iam trying to find it out here... iam 35 i think i have little years left for this..

I live in a small town at Greece.. here the 5-6 stores has Mountain bikes ( we live in a hilly area ... lots of uphills ) so i doupt they can give me advices... i have to search it from internet...

when i was searching for new bike, one shop owner suggests me to get a mountain bike ... i already told him that i need it for road and he says the Mtb wil cover my needs...

Also iam 1.72cm - 76cm inseam legs.

darrell1967

Intake,
Where are you in Greece? I’ve just returned from 21 days in Parga. I took my road bike with me, my god was it hilly and hot!!

There are many good bike shops in Athens.

Intake

#Darrell

Never been at Parga but i believe you

Iam From Central Greece.

What hours u use your bike there? All day?

kingrollo

I think you are going to have to take a leap of faith - if you can't test any bikes - and have no local shops to try/advise.

I wouldn't expect a massive difference though - I don't know your current bike - but 105 stuff is generally found on decent bike - I wouldn't have that 1500e bike will be a step up.

I have recently upgraded from my 10 year old ultegra carbon - to make the upgrade worthwhile I went with disc\di2 so the new bike is significantly different from the old.

I think only you can decide if a mid range aero bike is going to be a worthwhile step up. IME the gear ratios make more of a difference on the hills rather than top end speed - I have a 50/34 with 30 cog on the back - nice for the hills !

mfin

w00dster wrote:

Damn posted before I finished. Also aero bikes and race bikes tend to have different head tube lengths to endurance bikes.
I ride Trek H1 fit, race fit and also have their H2 fit of the same bike and there is a difference. It’s not just about getting the same triangle when the angles of the top tube and head tube are working against you.
I also have a canyon Aeroad and this has a low head tube and long top tube, it can almost feel twitchy because of the angles, but that’s a feeling that after one ride becomes natural.
The problem with aero bikes in my opinion is that you need to spend more than your budget to get the full gain, where as you can pick up a Supersix or a CAAD 12 which are great bikes for your budget. MF’s example is a top bike, but you need to spend another £500 on wheels and possibly bars to get a genuine aero bike.

Forgive me if I've misinterpreted you but this is the opposite to the way a lot of people look at things, and the opposite of the approach I was attempting to outline. You're illustrating an approach of having different fits on different bikes because they are designed to have you in a certain style of position. The opposite is to subscribe to the approach that the fit doesn't change between bikes for a person. That is what I do and lots of people do.

It's a bit like this. If a bike happens to have geometry that lends itself to a quite upright position, and that's not what you want, and there's no real way for you to get your actual required position on it, it is the wrong bike for you. Similarly, if a bike happens to have geometry that lends itself to a long and low position, and that's not what you want and you can't get your actual required position on it then its the wrong bike for you.

This way of working soon establishes not just that one 'style' of bike might not work but that certain sizes don't work. Also, as another example, one race oriented bike might not work quite right for you but one by another manufacturer might.

So, when you say " It’s not just about getting the same triangle when the angles of the top tube and head tube are working against you", well, I disagree. When the angles and geometry are working against you, in obtaining your fit triangle, what you have in front of you is a bike you should not buy as it is not right for you.

Intake

My current bike is a Cannondale quick 1 2019 - Alu .

The best way to decide for me is to test the bikes. i mean test for a big ride e.g. 100km. ( this will not happened xD )

i will do what iam thinking... buy a race geometry or aero bike... then i will see how uncomfotable is.. it will worth for the extra speed ?? my ''personal scale'' will decide it.

craigus89

Intake wrote:

My current bike is a Cannondale quick 1 2019 - Alu .

The best way to decide for me is to test the bikes. i mean test for a big ride e.g. 100km. ( this will not happened xD )

i will do what iam thinking... buy a race geometry or aero bike... then i will see how uncomfotable is.. it will worth for the extra speed ?? my ''personal scale'' will decide it.

I can answer that for you. No. It’s not worth it for the speed. It might be worth it for other reasons, but speed isn’t one.

Matthewfalle

aero bikes aren't umcomfortable - I have had a Soloist, S5 and S3 and all are fine.

if you want one, buy one but make sure it is slammed.

#aero
#slammed

andyh01

My understanding is this;
Going uphill you're better off with lighter weight
If mainly flat better off with aero provided going over 20mph
Therefore climbing bikes/lightweight

Intake

#Graigus i like that answer. what the other reasons?

#Matthewfalle u mean sloppy geometry?

#Andy i dont know yet what i will decide. my badget is too low to cover both...

i have to decide uphills vs flats... in my area i have a lots of uphills .. i start rides since 2 years and at 2019 i have 48035m elevation gain... but the last 2-3 months my body gives more power-speed etc at rides...

but i have to wait and see when my skills get "peaked" then i will have more clear what i will choose ! ( sry for my english , i hope to understand me )

*Lightweight means 7-8 kg?

Matthewfalle

Intake wrote:

#Graigus i like that answer. what the other reasons?

#Matthewfalle u mean sloppy geometry?

#Andy i dont know yet what i will decide. my badget is too low to cover both...

i have to decide uphills vs flats... in my area i have a lots of uphills .. i start rides since 2 years and at 2019 i have 48035m elevation gain... but the last 2-3 months my body gives more power-speed etc at rides...

but i have to wait and see when my skills get "peaked" then i will have more clear what i will choose ! ( sry for my english , i hope to understand me )

*Lightweight means 7-8 kg?

no. just not uncomfortable. no worse than N1 or my crit bike.

and the S3 is around 7.5 with carbon wheels, SLR saddle so not heavy.

no bike needs to be uncomfortable.

#position

Matthewfalle

this is my S3 so you can see the position - slammed and as comfy as.

viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=13104900

#slammed
#comfy

Intake

#Μatthewfalle Insane bike mate.. tell us more about it.. what do you enjoy what do you dislike... i dont know about prices but i belive it costs around 4000euro?

Matthewfalle

Intake wrote:

#Μatthewfalle Insane bike mate.. tell us more about it.. what do you enjoy what do you dislike... i dont know about prices but i belive it costs around 4000euro?

ciao.

thank you for the compliment.

Plus points:
its lovely to be honest: fast as anything, smooth, very stiff, light, handles lovely, looks gorgeous, fits perfect.

the paint is lovely - metallic so looks fantastic in the sun.

its also disposable - smash it up and you just buy another one. Its not a like a hand made custom bike.

its also full ultegra 8000 so it works perfectly. if you like Ultegra you will be as happy as anything.

also looks mad with deep rims.

frameset is completely unaffected by wind.

its a pro level frameset that is perfect for racing, triathlon, time trial, commuting and training.

you can fit 25mm tyres to it.

did i say it was very fast, very comfy, handles brilliant?

Bad points
I don't particularly like Ultegra - I find it boring. If you had SRAM Force on there it would be amazing.

I am yet to bond with it - mixture of not having built it myself and not having done enough miles.

its in a different country to me at the moment and I have seen it for one day in 6 weeks.

stupid Cervelo bottom bracket

stupid internal cabling

i'm about to be posted away again so it will be in a different country to me.

price @ Sigma Sports is €4,040.


are you looking for one? do you have a budget?

#itslovely

Intake

Thx for the information ... i wish i could ride that thing for a big ride ! gongrats man

Iam looking for one ! Of course i dont have the budget !