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Air leaking from tyre carcus

cyclistbrucecyclistbruce Posts: 88
edited August 2019 in Workshop
I've fitted some tubeless ready tyres to my old commuter (or at least someone who knows what they are doing and has done it before did!). They are Michelin Power Gravel tyres. They lost pressure over the course of a few hours. As there didn't seem to be any obvious leaks I put on some detergent and the air seems to be seeping from the side walls (not the rim) particularly where the raised text is.

Anyone seen this before? Sealant hasn't helped. I'm probably going to return them, unless I'm missing something obvious?!!

Posts

  • lemonenemalemonenema Posts: 212
    carcass
    Ive not seen this on tubeless tyres, only when trying to use non tubeless ones as tubeless.
    I would suggest contacting Michelin
  • Is this first inflation? They might leak over first day or so while the sealant finds it way into all the holes. Worth rotating to redistribute sealant and re-inflate once or twice further. If still leaking then you may have insufficient/faulty sealant.
  • AlejandrosdogAlejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    Road tubeless is indeed a mixed experience.
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    If the carcass is leaking air, then you've got duff tyres. It doesn't matter about sealant as the tyre should inflate and stay inflated for a reasonable amount of time without it. Send them back for exchange or some other brand.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Try a different sealant. not all sealant seal tyre porosity well. It not a mixed experience. some tubeless kit is just not up for the job and should not be marketed as tubeless. Buy kit that is genuinely tubeless copatible and the problem go away.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • AlejandrosdogAlejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    Try a different sealant. not all sealant seal tyre porosity well. It not a mixed experience. some tubeless kit is just not up for the job and should not be marketed as tubeless. Buy kit that is genuinely tubeless copatible and the problem go away.

    Of course its a mixed experience, some people get on with it some dont. Some environments it works well some it doesnt.

    round here, most regular riders who tried it have gone back to tyres and tubes because its simpler and because when disaster strikes they dont hold the whole group up for 15 minutes whilst they messabout getting them off removing valves patching and then fitting an inner tube. those that ride on the main roads dont have the same preponderance of flints.

    sounds good but the reality is different. unless they want to ride with 30mm plus tyres and low pressures.
  • shortfallshortfall Posts: 3,288
    Try a different sealant. not all sealant seal tyre porosity well. It not a mixed experience. some tubeless kit is just not up for the job and should not be marketed as tubeless. Buy kit that is genuinely tubeless copatible and the problem go away.

    Of course its a mixed experience, some people get on with it some dont. Some environments it works well some it doesnt.

    round here, most regular riders who tried it have gone back to tyres and tubes because its simpler and because when disaster strikes they dont hold the whole group up for 15 minutes whilst they messabout getting them off removing valves patching and then fitting an inner tube. those that ride on the main roads dont have the same preponderance of flints.

    sounds good but the reality is different. unless they want to ride with 30mm plus tyres and low pressures.

    Why don't they plug punctures from the outside using worms? It takes less than 5 minutes. It's not a failure of tubeless technology if people choose the wrong solutions when issues arise.
  • svettysvetty Posts: 1,904
    Because the tyre manufacturers don't publicise that this is the way to deal with punctures. Presumably they think that encouraging people to fix their tyres by boring holes into them will put people off. I can't imagine why........:)
    FFS! Harden up and grow a pair :D
  • AlejandrosdogAlejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    :lol:
    Svetty wrote:
    Because the tyre manufacturers don't publicise that this is the way to deal with punctures. Presumably they think that encouraging people to fix their tyres by boring holes into them will put people off. I can't imagine why........:)

    This.

    And the fact that they dont work particularly well when theres a reasonable sized cut and higher pressure.
  • shortfallshortfall Posts: 3,288
    edited August 2019
    Svetty wrote:
    Because the tyre manufacturers don't publicise that this is the way to deal with punctures. Presumably they think that encouraging people to fix their tyres by boring holes into them will put people off. I can't imagine why........:)
    I did a quick Google of road tubeless tyre repair FAQ and the first hit was for Hunt who are a big UK seller of tubeless wheels. Their website contains information about repairing punctures with plugs so presumably they're comfortable with the idea. Ditto Cycle Clinic who punts out plenty of tubeless wheels and is the UK importer of IRC tubeless tyres.
    http://www.huntbikewheels.com/blogs/new ... pair-guide

    I've used plugs/worms successfully myself although admittedly this is a sample of one.
    If people want to take their tyres off at the side of the road and fvck about with internal patches and then struggle to reinflate then that's their look out but they're doing it wrong.
    You wouldn't criticise tubular tyre technology just because some idiot decided to unpick the thread and patch the tube at the side of the road when he should stick some slime in on or swap it for a spare, preglued tub would you? I get it if you're not a fan of tubeless tyres, in which case just use clinchers or tubs. We all have choices.

    ETA https://www.giant-bicycles.com/global/s ... ess-system
    Giant, the world's largest bicycle manufacturer and who sell their own branded tubeless tyres and rims, are clearly showing tubeless repair with a worm in the above link. I guess they are in fact happy to encourage people to bore holes in their tyres.
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    round here, most regular riders who tried it have gone back to tyres and tubes because its simpler and because when disaster strikes they dont hold the whole group up for 15 minutes whilst they messabout getting them off removing valves patching and then fitting an inner tube. those that ride on the main roads dont have the same preponderance of flints.

    So when exactly did you conduct this survey of yours and on what numbers was it based? Oh you mean your peer group and your statement is in effect untrue. :wink:
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • gezebogezebo Posts: 364
    I’ve had mixed experience with them too. Mountain bikers seem to get on with them better for some reason.

    I agree that some sealants can be better than others and people also forget how much you sometimes need and that it does need to be changed from time to time.

    Not that this anecdotal evidence helps the OP much!
  • AlejandrosdogAlejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    edited August 2019
    philthy3 wrote:
    round here, most regular riders who tried it have gone back to tyres and tubes because its simpler and because when disaster strikes they dont hold the whole group up for 15 minutes whilst they messabout getting them off removing valves patching and then fitting an inner tube. those that ride on the main roads dont have the same preponderance of flints.

    So when exactly did you conduct this survey of yours and on what numbers was it based? Oh you mean your peer group and your statement is in effect untrue. :wink:
    :lol::lol:

    I haven’t conducted any survey I’ve just observed what’s happening . And thank god too.
  • AlejandrosdogAlejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    philthy3 wrote:
    round here, most regular riders who tried it have gone back to tyres and tubes because its simpler and because when disaster strikes they dont hold the whole group up for 15 minutes whilst they messabout getting them off removing valves patching and then fitting an inner tube. those that ride on the main roads dont have the same preponderance of flints.

    So when exactly did you conduct this survey of yours and on what numbers was it based? Oh you mean your peer group and your statement is in effect untrue. :wink:

    :)
  • AlejandrosdogAlejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    Shortfall wrote:
    Svetty wrote:
    Because the tyre manufacturers don't publicise that this is the way to deal with punctures. Presumably they think that encouraging people to fix their tyres by boring holes into them will put people off. I can't imagine why........:)
    I did a quick Google of road tubeless tyre repair FAQ and the first hit was for Hunt who are a big UK seller of tubeless wheels. Their website contains information about repairing punctures with plugs so presumably they're comfortable with the idea. Ditto Cycle Clinic who punts out plenty of tubeless wheels and is the UK importer of IRC tubeless tyres.
    http://www.huntbikewheels.com/blogs/new ... pair-guide

    I've used plugs/worms successfully myself although admittedly this is a sample of one.
    If people want to take their tyres off at the side of the road and fvck about with internal patches and then struggle to reinflate then that's their look out but they're doing it wrong.
    You wouldn't criticise tubular tyre technology just because some idiot decided to unpick the thread and patch the tube at the side of the road when he should stick some slime in on or swap it for a spare, preglued tub would you? I get it if you're not a fan of tubeless tyres, in which case just use clinchers or tubs. We all have choices.

    ETA https://www.giant-bicycles.com/global/s ... ess-system
    Giant, the world's largest bicycle manufacturer and who sell their own branded tubeless tyres and rims, are clearly showing tubeless repair with a worm in the above link. I guess they are in fact happy to encourage people to bore holes in their tyres.

    Generally the removing the tyre patching and tube happens after a couple
    Of ineffective stops and fannying with a good sized slice and plugs, the group patience wears thin.

    I’m not sure that hunt who sells tubeless rims or cycleclinic who actively promotes tubeless but doesn’t know about Shimano cassette replacement are good examples to use.

    My observation was that tubeless has given people mixed experiences, including people who have used them for years in mountain biking.
  • AlejandrosdogAlejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    And finally I wish they were the answer they promise to be because I’d be using them . But they’re not.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Well I manage to get plugs to work with big holes. however I dont assume the repair will take 80 psi straightaway and whack a CO2 canister on. a hand pump is what I normally use unless I am certain of the repair. After 24hrs higher pressures are used. Big holes can mean the repair is a get you home affair but at least your home.

    The last big tubeless hole I got was in bedford in july. Hit something that caused a nick in the brake track that cut the tyre above the bead and (the same object?) caused a 10mm slit in the sidewall further up. A small plug in the bead puncture and 2 fat ones in the 10mm cut and inflated. sadly I had two fully loaded panniers so low pressure still meant the tyre was riding flat ( but still rideable as the tyre was seated and had air in it) but it held and I was able to ride to nearest shop and get a new tyre and file out the damage to the brake track. Without the excessive pannier load that repair would have got me home. I have ridden bead puncture repairs for many miles before at low pressure which is all they can take and another sidewall slice held 40 psi for about 7 miles which was enough. 30 psi would have held for a lot longer. Tried all this. I am the puncture king so I have had alot of practice.
    The plug blowing out is caused by the following issues
    1) pressure applied is to high for the repair and a lower pressure should be used initially. a repaired tyre does not have to be ridden at 80 psi. Its hard to get a tyre with a hand pump to that anyway.
    2) the plug used is not that sticky and just blow out - solution use a sticky plug
    3) the plug used is too small for the hole - solution use a bigger plugs

    Sadly and I am being blunt now the hamfisted get problems. apply some care and all is normally well. Most people do not know what they are doing with tubeless. It does require a skill level that too many lack. that possibly means they are better of on tubes. There are many though with the skill level needed and those skills can be learnt. there is one person in this thread who is certainly not willing to learn. there are other who have learnt and cant be bothered with it and other that have learnt and get on with it fine. Theres room for everyone. no one is forcing any one to go tubeless. I dont I merely explain the in and outs rather than highlight all the problems with the only solution being stick to tubes.

    Also most of my road bikes have tubular tyres and they have tubes. So I am a tubular convert and more lately to tubeless for some of my bikes. Really tubs are my favourite tyres. the ritual of gluing. Oh its a ritual alright.

    However back to the air leaking did the OP actually solve this.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • shortfallshortfall Posts: 3,288
    Shortfall wrote:
    Svetty wrote:
    Because the tyre manufacturers don't publicise that this is the way to deal with punctures. Presumably they think that encouraging people to fix their tyres by boring holes into them will put people off. I can't imagine why........:)
    .

    I’m not sure that hunt who sells tubeless rims or cycleclinic who actively promotes tubeless but doesn’t know about Shimano cassette replacement are good examples to use.

    .

    What about the world's biggest bike manufacturer Giant who advocate the use of worms for their tubeless system in the link below?
    https://www.giant-bicycles.com/global/s ... ess-system
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    And finally I wish they were the answer they promise to be because I’d be using them . But they’re not.

    Work perfectly well for me. Ridden on dry and wet surfaces, flint/gravel tracks, over unavoidable hedge clippings and road debris and submerged potholes. Not one puncture that I'm aware of.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • AlejandrosdogAlejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    philthy3 wrote:
    And finally I wish they were the answer they promise to be because I’d be using them . But they’re not.

    Work perfectly well for me. Ridden on dry and wet surfaces, flint/gravel tracks, over unavoidable hedge clippings and road debris and submerged potholes. Not one puncture that I'm aware of.

    Do you ride round west Berkshire much?
  • davidofdavidof Posts: 2,909
    Road tubeless is indeed a mixed experience.

    I know what you mean. I've been using them for 7 years but there are times when I think I'll go back to tubes, probably after I've used up my current stock of tubeless. That said I've only had one puncture and the tire was down to the canvas, I fitted a tube in a couple of minutes and rode the 60km back home no worries.

    With the right tubes and tires they are ok but don't seem to offer much of an advantage. My Shimano Ultegra wheels were great. My current wheels are a PITA as it is hard to get the tubes to seal even with a one shot and they deflate quicker than with the Ultegra rims. I had one tire going flat every 40km - it was leaking around the rim joint (which the Ultegra rims don't have).
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  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    philthy3 wrote:
    And finally I wish they were the answer they promise to be because I’d be using them . But they’re not.

    Work perfectly well for me. Ridden on dry and wet surfaces, flint/gravel tracks, over unavoidable hedge clippings and road debris and submerged potholes. Not one puncture that I'm aware of.

    Do you ride round west Berkshire much?

    Why, is your road debris etc extra special? :D
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • AlejandrosdogAlejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    philthy3 wrote:
    philthy3 wrote:
    And finally I wish they were the answer they promise to be because I’d be using them . But they’re not.

    Work perfectly well for me. Ridden on dry and wet surfaces, flint/gravel tracks, over unavoidable hedge clippings and road debris and submerged potholes. Not one puncture that I'm aware of.

    Do you ride round west Berkshire much?

    Why, is your road debris etc extra special? :D

    I think special is a kind way of describing the state of disrepair and the waves of flints that wash accross the roads here is something special too :(

    oddly as you ride into or out of wiltshire the demarkation in terms of road quality is visible and can be felt directly through the bike.
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,804
    philthy3 wrote:
    Not one puncture that I'm aware of.
    Delicious irony.....
    If the tyre punctured you'd be aware of it as it would be flat (at the bottom at least), if it hasn't punctured then neither would a tubed tyre so tubeless was no benefit.
    Current steed - Whyte T129, 2013 frame, mongrel Revelations, Giant dropper, Stans S1 wheelset. 12, Magura Trail Sport brakes, 1x11. 12.8Kg
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