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Caliper brake bikes going out of fashion?

willhubwillhub Posts: 821
edited June 2019 in Road buying advice
I'm looking to buy a new bike, one bike for all is not working, especially a 12 year old beaten up carrera.

Now I was considering a CAAD 12 105 caliper but a friend seems to think it's ridiculous buying such a bike when 200 quid more would get me a hydraulic version.

I feel the hydraulic one would be higher maintenance and potentially more to go wrong, and if it did go wrong it would be possibly disastrous.

I just feel the hydraulic version is slightly out of my price range, am I doing myself injustice by going for a caliper version?

Is it the case the value of calipers has bombed due to everyone jumping onto disks?

Cheers.
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Posts

  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,440
    Tell your friend he is fat and that's why he needs hydraulic brakes... you are not, so you don't need them
  • philbar72philbar72 Posts: 2,228
    some of us don't need "censored brakes" (sic). others do. modern caliper brakes are fine for most people. modern disc brakes are great for all seasons though they sound bloody awful. they also weigh more.

    if it were me and getting a caad12, I'd go caliper brakes, but that's just me.
  • willhub wrote:
    I'm looking to buy a new bike, one bike for all is not working, especially a 12 year old beaten up carrera.

    Now I was considering a CAAD 12 105 caliper but a friend seems to think it's ridiculous buying such a bike when 200 quid more would get me a hydraulic version.

    I feel the hydraulic one would be higher maintenance and potentially more to go wrong, and if it did go wrong it would be possibly disastrous.

    I just feel the hydraulic version is slightly out of my price range, am I doing myself injustice by going for a caliper version?

    Is it the case the value of calipers has bombed due to everyone jumping onto disks?

    Cheers.
    Personally, I love discs. Consistent and controllable braking in all weathers gets a big tick from me.

    Higher maintenance? Nope. Change the pads when they wear out, bleed every couple of years. Done.

    Yes, they're heavier. By a tiny amount. Who cares.

    They might squeak a bit in the wet. But you'll actually stop.


    Your money, your choice. But I'll never get anything else now.
  • willhubwillhub Posts: 821
    My mate is like a bike snob now, he's fast like sub 20 10's. I use to kick his censored but now I'm a slow fatty and he's a fast stick compared to me. I struggle to find the right size as well, 54,55 or 56, who knows, I'm 5ft 10 but my carrers is a 56, and it's got an 8cm step, an inline seat post, and less than 1cm space at the back of the saddle frame can't even have a saddle back.

    My PlanetFlex was a 54cm and felt like I was getting squashed, this is also a demotivating factor, I've spent hundreds on bike fits and they don't work, if ever my routine changes it seems to effect me, my flexibility etc.. and as a result my bike position needs to change. After spending 350 quid on a SINGLE bike fit I can't even bring myself to use a bike fit anymore.
  • willhub wrote:
    My mate is like a bike snob now, he's fast like sub 20 10's. I use to kick his ars* but now I'm a slow fatty and he's a fast stick compared to me. I struggle to find the right size as well, 54,55 or 56, who knows, I'm 5ft 10 but my carrers is a 56, and it's got an 8cm step, an inline seat post, and less than 1cm space at the back of the saddle frame can't even have a saddle back.

    My PlanetFlex was a 54cm and felt like I was getting squashed, this is also a demotivating factor, I've spent hundreds on bike fits and they don't work, if ever my routine changes it seems to effect me, my flexibility etc.. and as a result my bike position needs to change. After spending 350 quid on a SINGLE bike fit I can't even bring myself to use a bike fit anymore.
    I'm getting a strong sense of "wrong thread reply" here :mrgreen:
  • willhubwillhub Posts: 821
    I've sent it off on a tangent as in, first dilemma = caliper or disk, second dilemma = I can't find a frame size to fit me. + some small talk (I'm the thread starter BTW)
  • Buy the smaller of whatever 2 sizes you're between. Fix with setback seat post and longer stem :)
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    Nothing wrong with calliper brakes at all and even with modern carbon wheels and the correct pads, you'll stop in the wet.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • willhubwillhub Posts: 821
    edited May 2019
    Won't buying a 54 and fixing with setback post cause issues as in getting right position in relation to Bottom Bracket and getting power out efficiently?
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    willhub wrote:
    Won't buying a 54 and fixing with setback post cause issues as in getting right position in relation to Bottom Bracket?

    No. The longer stem will move you forward and the set back will put you in the right position re the BB. It isn't like you're buying a bike that is too small for you and trying to make it fit. You're between sizes and should err on the side of the smaller size. I'm the same and ride the smaller of the options with adjustments to give me a perfect fit.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • willhubwillhub Posts: 821
    I never got a good position with my Planet X which was a 54cm, I dislike the slops top tube and want a more traditional looking frame (reason I like the CAAD's) - RIP my CAAD9 that was the best thing since sliced bread.
  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    I'm perfectly happy with caliper brakes.

    I wouldn't pay a £200 surcharge for discs. Look at the giro. Plenty of caliper brakes there and they don't even pay for their bikes.
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    caliper brakes are fine and will be around for years. discs are not better or worse or an upgrade or a down - they are just an alternative.

    they seem quite popular in the Giro at the moment so if they are good enough for them....

    buy caliper and spend the rest on blow & hos

    #don'tbelievethehype
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • w00dsterw00dster Posts: 880
    Just to add, I really rate my Hydraulic disc brakes. No maintenance in over 2 years apart from swapping out rotors.
    I also really rate my rim brakes on carbon rims. Even in the wet they work absolutely fine with no scares, the tyres now that's a different story (damn Pro One's in the wet and damp!!!)
  • svettysvetty Posts: 1,904
    Presumably you will use the Carrerra in winter and the new bike in summer? In which case there is a case for getting the rim braked version as it's cheaper. If it's going to be for year-round use I'd stretch for the disc model Will.
    What happened to the Raleigh?
    FFS! Harden up and grow a pair :D
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,440
    The solution is to get the Supersix... at 105 level it only comes with rim brakes and the disc brake version (Ultegra) is almost twice the money, so no dilemma.
    Good price for the 2018 model

    https://www.paulscycles.co.uk/1413/prod ... oQEALw_wcB
  • MoonbikerMoonbiker Posts: 1,706
    After spending 350 quid on a SINGLE bike fit I can't even bring myself to use a bike fit anymore.

    :lol: :roll:

    7247-shot_1_808x700.jpg?v=1552541663
  • cookeeemonstercookeeemonster Posts: 1,990
    Tell your friend he is fat and that's why he needs hydraulic brakes... you are not, so you don't need them

    Tell your friend he is powerful and needs disc brakes....you are not, so you don't need them :D;)

    Just bought a caad12 105 disc btw.If you use all year round (that means a lot of wet rides potentially) it's a no brainer I think...if not then rim brakes will be fine. In fact they will be fine all year round in the wet but not as good as discs.
  • Every person i know who has a disc braked bike rides zwift when it rains
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • scotthunterscotthunter Posts: 140
    Personally, I love discs. Consistent and controllable braking in all weathers gets a big tick from me.

    Higher maintenance? Nope. Change the pads when they wear out, bleed every couple of years. Done.

    Yes, they're heavier. By a tiny amount. Who cares.

    They might squeak a bit in the wet. But you'll actually stop.


    Your money, your choice. But I'll never get anything else now.


    It annoys me when people who buy a particular bike feel they have to justify their purchase by ignoring the facts and coming out with useless sayings such as: "Yes, they're heavier. By a tiny amount. Who cares." Maybe they don't care, or maybe they are used to their bike and have never compared A with B.

    Disc brake bikes are heavier. Of course weight matters if you want a bike that climbs well and if every second counts. The laws of physics will tell you that. If you don't think it matters, why get a carbon bike? Get a bike with a steel frame and slap on a Tiagra groupset and some aluminum wheels.

    Take the Giant TCR line-up - their Advanced Pro 1 in a medium large with rim brakes is 7.3kg without pedals; their Advanced Pro 1 disc is 7.8kg. All the added weight is distributed within the fork and wheelset. You will have also paid extra for making your bike slower.

    Don't believe all the late braking censored - in the dry, good brake calipers will slow you just fine, unless you are carrying a few extra pounds yourself. Think of it this way: depending on where you live, you may only be using your brakes for around 5% of the time. You honestly have to ask yourself if it's worth it, especially if you are a lighter rider.

    So make up your own mind based on the facts. If you want a bike with 20% heavier wheels and fork, you want to ride fast in the rain, and the extra cost of the bike is irrelevant, get the disc model.

    If you want the fastest bike for climbing with a slightly more compliant fork, and every second counts, get the rim version and save yourself the cash.
  • TiesetrotterTiesetrotter Posts: 432
    Disc brake rubbing ...... another effing squeak on the bike to be annoyed by. Also in the period between 1978 and 2019 I have not died once due to a lack of disc brakes.

    I have both:
    Upside:
    Not replacing alloy rims after every winter
    Stopping on steep hills in the rain, this is really good
    Slightly better braking (it's the tyre grip which makes it impossible to be much better)
    Cleaner looking lines on the bike frame

    Downside:
    Pedalling 0.05% harder to push the older/cheaper Shimano breeze block hideous disc brake levers through the wind (8070 seems to have resolved this). This looks the same issue for SRAM as well.
    Disc brake rub starting half-way into a ride
    Squealing brakes in wet weather
    Cost of disc pads, I go through three front ones and two rear ones a year which makes it more expensive than a good alloy rim

    Obviously, the bike manufacturers will be looking to standardise us onto discs. It just adds a headache to manufacturing and design
  • w00dsterw00dster Posts: 880
    Scotthunter - I pretty much agree with everything you say. I'm more than happy with my rim brakes, even with carbon wheels in the wet. But the benefit for me of having disc brakes is the fact that I can fit 32mm tyres, I know its not necessary to have this wide a tyre - but I quite like the fact that my winter bike takes them.
    Be interesting to see what direction the major manufacturers take over the next 3 to 4 years. Rim brakes will never be phased out, but will we see as much development on rim brake frames over the coming years?
    Trek, Giant, Specialized and Giant, all have a disc brake only version of one of their line up.
    The Venge, Madone and System Six are disc only. Thankfully the Super Six looks like it is going to be in rim and disc brake for 2020.
    Personally I'm of the opinion that after the 2020 Olympics we will start to see manufacturers once more start to challenge the weight restrictions and we will see more development on lightweight rim brake bikes. Disc brakes will be with us, which is a also a good thing, but for those of us who want our race bikes to be as light as possible, then this could be an interesting future.
    I'm not in anyway trying to debate one braking system is better than the other. Just "pub discussion" on the next few years of bike design.
  • scotthunterscotthunter Posts: 140
    w00dster wrote:
    Scotthunter - I pretty much agree with everything you say. I'm more than happy with my rim brakes, even with carbon wheels in the wet. But the benefit for me of having disc brakes is the fact that I can fit 32mm tyres

    If you want to run 32mm tyres that suggests the performance argument of rim vs disc is largely irrelevant for you as it sounds like you prioritize comfort over acceleration and climbing ability. I can still put 28mm tyres on my rim TCR as the new Ultegra R8000 calipers have enough clearance for that, although I prefer to run 25mm to keep the weight down.

    I also think this argument is only relevant for the mid-range bike sector. A budget of £7000-£8000 will get you a disc bike that weighs near the UCI 6.8kg weight limit because the weight penalty of the hydraulic disc setup will be mostly offset by weight savings in the higher-end frame, wheels and groupset. With a budget of £2000-£3000, you'll be lucky to be under 8kg if you still want discs.

    If you are willing to spend the money then the compromises are fewer. Hence why the rim option will give you the most bang for your buck if you are in the market for a new race bike.
  • cookeeemonstercookeeemonster Posts: 1,990
    Every person i know who has a disc braked bike rides zwift when it rains

    Have you ever replied to any thread with anything but a sarky or arsey comment? :D:D:D
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    Moonbiker wrote:
    After spending 350 quid on a SINGLE bike fit I can't even bring myself to use a bike fit anymore.

    :lol: :roll:

    7247-shot_1_808x700.jpg?v=1552541663

    350 pounds on a single bike fit? wtaf?

    #seriously
    #bigwindows
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • thegreatdividethegreatdivide Posts: 5,137
    w00dster wrote:
    Personally I'm of the opinion that after the 2020 Olympics we will start to see manufacturers once more start to challenge the weight restrictions and we will see more development on lightweight rim brake bikes. Disc brakes will be with us, which is a also a good thing, but for those of us who want our race bikes to be as light as possible, then this could be an interesting future.

    I'm sure I posted this on the last disc brake smash up, but as an (ex) owner of a weight weenie sub 6kg bike I can tell you that this will NEVER happen. The handling on a very lightweight bike is f*cking horrendous. It's fine for that balls out 2 mile club hill climb TT at the end of the season, but try riding it all day while telling yourself it'll be great up the Alps and you'll have it broken down and on eBay in a flash.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,440
    I am not sure what 2020 Olympics have to do with UCI regulations
  • w00dsterw00dster Posts: 880
    https://www.uci.org/docs/default-source ... 64a0364_20
    So, all equipment used at the Olympics must be used at the previous UCI world champs. So all equipment at the Olympics next year must be registered to race on this year.
    The rumour on certain parts of the web is that the manufacturers and UCI will agree that 2021 will be a relaxation of the rules, which gives the manufacturers time to develop the new lighter bikes ready for release when the rules change. We may start to see new new frames start to get released during next summer.

    I previously had a lightweight road bike, was about 6.2kgs. Handled really well. My 7kg aero bike also handles well. My 9kg winter bike handles awful in comparison, but then it’s comfortable, takes wide tyres and full guards. It’s only rumour and conjecture, but I do think we may start to see a trend for lighter bikes soon.
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    but try riding it all day while telling yourself it'll be great up the Alps and you'll have it broken down and on eBay in a flash.

    my 6kg climbing bike is perfect for both climbing and descending - never had any issues ever - so we here aren't too sure what you are doing to be brutally honest.

    #confused
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • Who cares what yout friend thinks?
    If its a fine weather bike I would just get calipers. Lighter and just as good in most conditions.
    Discs might be a fashion, but whats in fashion isnt always the best choice.
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