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Whispers...considering tubeless

j_mcdj_mcd Posts: 470
edited July 2019 in Commuting chat
So, popped into the LBS this morning to inquire about a squeak only to be told that my rear wheel was close to failing. I've been looking around in my price point and it's coming down to two main choices

https://www.cycledivision.co.uk/cero-ar30-evo-wheelset-8790
and
https://www.huntbikewheels.com/products/hunt-race-season-aero-wide-road-wheelset-1480g-31deep-24wide?variant=1226727331

Now, the thing is, they are both tubeless ready (and Hunt will supply the wheels with tires and sealant sorted).

So, do I do it, I don't know a lot about tubeless riding but I do know that my tires take a fair old hammering coming in from Surrey into Canary Wharf. Anyone got any really positive stories (or horror stories for that matter)?
Giant Defy Advanced 0 - Best
Planet X London Road - Wet
Montague Fit - Foldy thing that rarely gets used these days

Posts

  • asprillaasprilla Posts: 8,440
    Back in the good old days (around 2011), I had a pair of Fulcrum 1 Two-Way-Fits with Hutchinson Fusion tubeless tyres. They were really hard to get on and stiff as hell. I kept them for about 6 months and then sold them on having disliked the whole experience.

    Fast forward a few years and things have improved a lot. I now run two pairs of tubeless on the CX, and have a three sets of tubeless wheels that I used across the rim braked bikes. As soon as the Aksiums that came with my Canyon give up the ghost I'll be replacing them with tubeless.

    They can be a bit of a censored to put on, but once on they are excellent. I'm tempting fate, but I've had fewer fairy visits and riding at lower pressures on 25-40mm tyres is bliss.
    Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
    Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
    Sun - Cervelo R3
    Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX
  • greenamex2greenamex2 Posts: 272
    They are fantastic...when they work.

    The issue I am getting is more with wheel sealing than the tyres themselves. On my DT Swiss wheel I have had to resort to gluing the valve in to stop it leaking and be VERY meticulous taping the rims. Once I have done this they have been great.

    I ride on/off road and cycle paths to get to work so encounter everything (flints, glass, thorns, nails etc).

    Generally speaking they will always get me home, just might have to stop mid way to top up. I do carry a spare tube, haven't used it for a long time. I also carry some worms for larger punctures, used them a couple of times to good effect.

    Can be a censored to fit, I have a small compressor so am OK.

    How good are they? On average when I replace a worn tyre I usually find around four punctures I never even knew I had.
  • singletonsingleton Posts: 1,605
    Tubeless tyres ride beautifully and should self-seal small punctures if you get them.
    Downsides:
    You need to keep topping up the sealant, getting tyres on can be very difficult, seating tyres can be tricky and if you do have a catastrophic puncture / failure then trying to fit a tube at roadside can be a nightmare.
  • jds_1981jds_1981 Posts: 1,858
    Yesterday I had a 2.5 inch nail in my rear tyre. I only noticed because of the regular tapping as I cycled along a quiet section. Pulled out at work and it sealed.
    This morning I replenished the liquid. Noticed something metallic and spiky in the tread, pulled out an industrial staple - no idea how long that had been in there - and it sealed too. Both things I've not had to deal with at the roadside in winter. Suspect there's all kinds of glass and flint in the tyre that I've not even noticed.
    FCN 9 || FCN 5
  • frogonabikefrogonabike Posts: 157
    In my experience the bigger the tyre (i.e. lower pressure) the better luck you'll have as I've had a few punctures on the road where the sealant's happy up to a certain point but not at the optimal pressure. This was mostly on 25's trying to run 80-85psi. I have since found running 28's at a lower pressure I haven't yet had any issues (only a couple hundred miles in so far though). On the MTB I don't actually think I've had any punctures that have failed to self repair on "standard" width tyres - about 2.3" at 20-30PSI and I've been tubeless for a good few years

    I think sealants are improving now with various bits in the mix to help it seal. I have also just got some of these https://www.evanscycles.com/innovations-tubeless-tyre-repair-kit-EV150146 after reading good reviews... they could be a bit of a game changer as I used to just put a tube in - which is messy and can be a bit of a physical challenge at the road side
  • I have also just got some of these https://www.evanscycles.com/innovations-tubeless-tyre-repair-kit-EV150146 after reading good reviews... they could be a bit of a game changer as I used to just put a tube in - which is messy and can be a bit of a physical challenge at the road side

    I had some of those, they never worked as a repair once.

    Love my tubeless tyres, though. More so now I've moved to the Bontrager R3s from the Schwalbe Ones. The Schwalbes were fine until they cut too badly for the sealant to handle, which was annoyingly often (and the repair kit above never managed to help!). The Bonties are just as nice to ride, possibly better, and are really, really tough too.
  • roger_merrimanroger_merriman Posts: 6,146
    In my experience the bigger the tyre (i.e. lower pressure) the better luck you'll have as I've had a few punctures on the road where the sealant's happy up to a certain point but not at the optimal pressure. This was mostly on 25's trying to run 80-85psi. I have since found running 28's at a lower pressure I haven't yet had any issues (only a couple hundred miles in so far though). On the MTB I don't actually think I've had any punctures that have failed to self repair on "standard" width tyres - about 2.3" at 20-30PSI and I've been tubeless for a good few years

    I think sealants are improving now with various bits in the mix to help it seal. I have also just got some of these https://www.evanscycles.com/innovations-tubeless-tyre-repair-kit-EV150146 after reading good reviews... they could be a bit of a game changer as I used to just put a tube in - which is messy and can be a bit of a physical challenge at the road side

    I'm sure that the sealants have improved, I'm using some halfords own brand slime inner tubes copies in my gravel bike as I was getting fed up with the odd bit of wet shard or wet gravel making its way though thus far 8 months or so it's survived trips to the Beacons and Tenerife both road and gravel and local routes.

    Years ago on the mtb these type of tubes couldn't cope with the odd bit of bramble, so have improved a lot.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,863
    Tubeless tyres should be a tight fit. If they are an easy fit expect the tyre to unseat if you get a flat or unseat as your inserting a plug into the flat tyre.

    Good technique and good levers not any old lever is key to making them easy to put on. I don't mean hand fit but no trouble either and quick. On those that don't have the skill complain. My advise is don't assume you know everything and learn.

    Tubeless works. The down side is you have to learn new tricks. If you don't want to then tubes are your friend. I don't carry them any more so of your riding with me and need one I can't help.

    There is lots of generic info on My website.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • greenamex2greenamex2 Posts: 272
    I think sealants are improving now with various bits in the mix to help it seal. I have also just got some of these https://www.evanscycles.com/innovations-tubeless-tyre-repair-kit-EV150146 after reading good reviews... they could be a bit of a game changer as I used to just put a tube in - which is messy and can be a bit of a physical challenge at the road side

    I also use these "worms". Generally been successful, at the very worst got me home and then need a "proper" tyre off repair.

    Still carry a tube. Cheaper than buying a meal out for the wife to come and rescue me!
  • greenamex2 wrote:
    The issue I am getting is more with wheel sealing than the tyres themselves. On my DT Swiss wheel I have had to resort to gluing the valve in to stop it leaking and be VERY meticulous taping the rims. Once I have done this they have been great.

    By the way, I just took delivery of some new, tarty, anodised-red, tubeless valves for the Scott. They have O-rings under the tightening nut so should, in theory, be much more air-tight than the more established brands:

    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/7-Color ... 99830.html

    Came with a valve removal tool also, which will hopefully stop me mangling the valves with pliers.
  • greenamex2greenamex2 Posts: 272
    greenamex2 wrote:
    The issue I am getting is more with wheel sealing than the tyres themselves. On my DT Swiss wheel I have had to resort to gluing the valve in to stop it leaking and be VERY meticulous taping the rims. Once I have done this they have been great.

    By the way, I just took delivery of some new, tarty, anodised-red, tubeless valves for the Scott. They have O-rings under the tightening nut so should, in theory, be much more air-tight than the more established brands:

    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/7-Color ... 99830.html

    Came with a valve removal tool also, which will hopefully stop me mangling the valves with pliers.

    O rings under the nut are fine IF the nut contacts a fairly flat piece of rim. This isn't the case on either of my DT Swiss wheel sets. In addition if the valve is leaking then that means that air is probably also leaking into where the spoke nipples live...I have experienced air leaking out of both the nipple/spoke interface and the nipple/rim interface. The trick seems to be not letting the air get in there in the first place, so good rim tape well fitted and ensure the inside bit of the valve is well sealed against the rim bed (hence the shoe goo due to the wonky rim bed shape on the rims).
  • thistle_(mbnw)thistle_(mbnw) Posts: 3,529
    New to me MTB was my first tubeless setup. The problem was the previous owner had made a pigs ear of the tubeless conversion so ended up redoing it myself since when it's been fine.

    I had a freak spoke snap while riding which fired through the rim tape causing a puncture (put a tube in to get me home) but apart from that it's been fine.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,863
    the o ring does not makw the valve air tight or more air tight. it has no bearing on that. it just means you rim does not get marked tightening the valve up
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • greenamex2greenamex2 Posts: 272
    the o ring does not makw the valve air tight or more air tight. it has no bearing on that. it just means you rim does not get marked tightening the valve up

    That makes more sense, thanks.
  • andyh01andyh01 Posts: 518
    I've recently gone tubeless for the first time ever on an Adventure bike for the commuter down cycle paths.
    Came set up tubeless, Hunt wheels with G1 35mm tires, so far so good

    Only had to.pump rear wheel up.once before setting off

    Having done lots of reading there appears to be some contriditons:
    Some say as the name implies don't try and fit inner tube as a road side repair as you probably won't be able to get the tire on/off.

    Don't use c02 with certain types of sealent.

    I think the main bit is to check the sealent every few months to ensure it's still functioning not dried out or been used up and to keep it topped up.

    As another suggested, they apparently work better on wider tires as larger air volume I read somewhere 28 as a minimum,
    I am yet to check my sealent and I am reluctant to break the seals between rim/tires.

    As some sealent is water based, apparently the hot weather may dry the sealent out quicker.

    I think best way to check the sealent level is via a dipstick down the value with the core removed and an injector syringe to top up, opposed to losening the tire off.

    So far I've not had to stop mid commute and have to fix or push bike with tubeless as I've had to do with tube previously but early days for me about two months in
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,863
    The gi plugs are not that sticky and I stopped selling them for a good reason. There are two systems that work Maxalami plugs or the more expensive dynaplug. Personally I know I can fix a tyre with what I carry so I don't carry a tube.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • greenamex2greenamex2 Posts: 272
    Those Dynaplugs look vicious!
  • j_mcdj_mcd Posts: 470
    I've gone with some Hunt wheels and GP5000 tubeless tires. I'll update when they arrive and I've got a few miles under my belt. Or, when I get some horrific fairy visit that results in a call to the wife to pick me up.
    Giant Defy Advanced 0 - Best
    Planet X London Road - Wet
    Montague Fit - Foldy thing that rarely gets used these days
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,863
    Conti tyres for commuting. Tried those and got 2500km from the rear and many punctures. Good luck I won't use them again for commuting.

    They are great TT tyres on the right rims.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • j_mcdj_mcd Posts: 470
    So, I'm 850 miles in and so far I'm loving the wheels and tubeless set up.

    It's difficult to tell if it's made me faster as I've changed so many variables (wheels, tubes, tires, new cassette, chain etc.) but the bike does feel faster.

    The GP5000's are great, quick and pretty sticky for corners. No real noticeable punctures yet (probably shouldn't say that) and the wear looks OK.

    I do lose a bit of pressure over the course of a week, but nothing too serious. I think that my rides in have definitely become more comfy as well given I've dropped the pressure in the tires from 100 to around 70 with the new set up. I do still carry around a tube though, but that's mainly because I haven't got around to buying any of those tire worms yet.

    So, all in all, would recommend!

    Oh, it's getting to sealant refill time, any recommendations on what is best?!
    Giant Defy Advanced 0 - Best
    Planet X London Road - Wet
    Montague Fit - Foldy thing that rarely gets used these days
  • greenamex2greenamex2 Posts: 272
    j_mcd wrote:
    Oh, it's getting to sealant refill time, any recommendations on what is best?!

    I have had more luck with Muc off sealant than Schwalbe/Stans.

    Did keep pointing out to the guy that got THREE punctures on the last group ride that he needs to look at tubeless :lol:
  • I’ve been using Orange Seal for a while now. Bought a massive bottle and am taking my time to work through it. Much better than Stan’s, but not tried Muc Off.

    Also got sent an inflation bottle with the new bike, which I got round to trying last night.

    https://milkit.bike/en/product/milkit-booster/

    Works as well as a CO2 canister for sealing a tyre, but doesn’t cost money when you mess up! Fantastic!
  • asprillaasprilla Posts: 8,440
    I use Stans Race and find it to be excellent. Much better than normal Stans. I think BR did a shootout last week and came to the same conclusion.
    Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
    Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
    Sun - Cervelo R3
    Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 24,665
    j_mcd wrote:
    So, I'm 850 miles in and so far I'm loving the wheels and tubeless set up.

    It's difficult to tell if it's made me faster as I've changed so many variables (wheels, tubes, tires, new cassette, chain etc.) but the bike does feel faster.

    The GP5000's are great, quick and pretty sticky for corners. No real noticeable punctures yet (probably shouldn't say that) and the wear looks OK.

    I do lose a bit of pressure over the course of a week, but nothing too serious. I think that my rides in have definitely become more comfy as well given I've dropped the pressure in the tires from 100 to around 70 with the new set up. I do still carry around a tube though, but that's mainly because I haven't got around to buying any of those tire worms yet.

    So, all in all, would recommend!

    Oh, it's getting to sealant refill time, any recommendations on what is best?!

    I like how we all collectively think: I've spent a lot of money, I am not sure if that has made me faster, overall it isn't a downgrade, so I would definitively recommend it.
    What happened to bang for buck?
  • j_mcdj_mcd Posts: 470

    I like how we all collectively think: I've spent a lot of money, I am not sure if that has made me faster, overall it isn't a downgrade, so I would definitively recommend it.
    What happened to bang for buck?


    Everything is relative isn't it. I needed (not wanted) new wheels. I also needed new tires. Therefore the money was being spent anyway. In addition, they are extras on a bike that I've not replaced (nor have any intention of replacing) since about 2013ish. So no extra money being spent there. On the whole though, if you can afford something without worrying about it impacting something else then it's not expensive!

    As for whether it's made me faster, I'm certainly going a hell of a lot quicker than I would be on a bike with no wheels.
    Giant Defy Advanced 0 - Best
    Planet X London Road - Wet
    Montague Fit - Foldy thing that rarely gets used these days
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