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Bizango or Calibre Line 10

DylanMurphyDylanMurphy Posts: 39
edited March 2019 in MTB buying advice
Hi,

Was just about to buy my first mountain bike a Voodoo Bizango but now Go Outdoors are doing a discount on the Calibre Line 10 which means that it is only £60 more than the Bizango with a BC discount. What should I get?

Posts

  • whyamiherewhyamihere Posts: 7,548
    The Line 10 is stunning for the money, even more so with the bigger discount. The dropper is actually stealth routed contrary to the photo on the website. Out of the two, I'd go for that... In fact, I did.
  • whyamihere wrote:
    The Line 10 is stunning for the money, even more so with the bigger discount. The dropper is actually stealth routed contrary to the photo on the website. Out of the two, I'd go for that... In fact, I did.

    MBR said it has “Sluggish ride quality”. Does it?
  • whyamiherewhyamihere Posts: 7,548
    Not noticeably, but I did change the tyres before the first ride, as the standard ones are not tubeless ready.

    It does fall slightly more into the 'hardcore hardtail' category than the Bizango. The Bizango is more XC focused, while the Line 10 can take a bit more of a pounding. Interestingly though, according to the spec sheets, the Line 10 is actually lighter... It depends what you're looking for really.
  • JBAJBA Posts: 2,820
    Based on the specs I'd go for the Line 10.
    However, I would go and see one 'in the flesh' first as there are few discrepancies between the listed spec and photos. As whyamihere has said the dropper is shown as external but in reality is internally routed. The photos show an XT rear derailleur but the spec sheet says it's SLX.
    Great value for money though.
    “Life has been unfaithful
    And it all promised so so much”

    Giant Trance 2 27.5 2016 ¦ Sonder Broken Road 2021¦ Giant Revolt Advanced 2 2019 ¦ Giant Toughtroad SLR 1 2019 ¦ Giant Anthem 3 2015 ¦ Specialized Myka Comp FSR 2009
  • freebsfreebs Posts: 199
    I’m looking at these two bikes. I’m looking more xc but with a bit of Dalby Forest trails too. I get confused, would one be better than the other for that brief?
  • 898kor898kor Posts: 81
    Calibres reputation is getting stronger by the day, to the point where I imagine any resale will be easier (all relatively of course, I know we are not talking Sant Cruz prices!).

    There is a frenzy of eager customers waiting for the release of the new 29" Full Susser that is coming out this year, its apparently a bit higher specced than Calibre's norm (I think its got Yari etc). Prototype has been papped a few times, seen at Leeds Urban recently and it looks pretty smart.
    Bossnut V2
    Levo FSR Comp
  • davidw007davidw007 Posts: 37
    With the 20% off promo at Halfords is the Line10 still the way to go?

    The Bizango at £520 looks a bargain now.
  • rwooferrwoofer Posts: 160
    That's why I've just bought a Bizango myself. Very happy with it so far having already done 100km in 1.5 weeks. Added BrandX dropper post fo £100 and just in the process of converting to tubeless.

    Old bike was a 93 Specialized Stumpjumper M2, and despite going from high end to budget end, the intervening years of design improvements are immediate and obvious.
  • JoebristolJoebristol Posts: 326
    I don’t think you’ll be disappointed with either tbh.

    The Line 10 is a little more hardcore for jumps / mucking about on and the Bizango is a little more leaning towards trail riding and XC stuff.

    Personally I’d take the Line 10 - but just as many people would take the Bizango. Just put a dropper post on the Bizango if you go for it - something like a Brand X Ascend from Chain Reaction cycles would be a
    Good choice.
  • davidw007davidw007 Posts: 37
    rwoofer wrote:
    That's why I've just bought a Bizango myself. Very happy with it so far having already done 100km in 1.5 weeks. Added BrandX dropper post fo £100 and just in the process of converting to tubeless.

    Old bike was a 93 Specialized Stumpjumper M2, and despite going from high end to budget end, the intervening years of design improvements are immediate and obvious.

    I ended up going for the Bizango too.

    I'm wanting to setup tubeless too. Are you replacing the rims or just going down the rim tape and new tyres route? Which tyres are you going for?
  • steve_sordysteve_sordy Posts: 2,376
    DavidW007 wrote:
    [........... I'm wanting to setup tubeless too. Are you replacing the rims or just going down the rim tape and new tyres route? ..................

    No need to replace the rims. Strip off the existing rim tape that will be installed and use two layers of Gorilla tape. Brilliant stuff! I have used it on two bikes and no problems. The bike shop at Sherwood Pines recommended it. If the internal rim width is wider than the tape, put the first layer to the right and the second layer to the left.

    One layer seals the wheel, but two layers stops the air pressure from pushing the tape into the spoke holes. This will be of benefit the next time you fit a tubeless tyre to the wheel. :)
  • billycoolbillycool Posts: 833
    Some rims can be easier to set up than others.

    Like Steve Sordy, my most recent efforts (albeit on tubeless ready rims) were using 25mm Gorilla Tape.

    You'll also need tubeless valves and some sealant.

    I can't get my tyres to seat properly without a compressor, but others cope with track pumps or co2 inflators. If you can get hold of an Airshot or similar ,that might help.

    Gorilla Tape comes in a nice black (`carbon` as Steve calls it) or grey if you get T-Rex.

    2n7r5fd.jpg

    5vq5av.jpg
    "Ride, crash, replace"
  • rwooferrwoofer Posts: 160
    I used original rims and tyres to go tubeless on my Bizango. Ripped off original rim tape and replaced with Tesa 4289. Really important bit is to then put on tyre with an inner tube and pump up to max pressure. Leave this for 24 hours (which basically ensures that Tesa tape is completely bonded to the rim), rip out inner tube, add tubeless valve and pump up again.

    Added sealant, but hardly any comes out, so the original tyre works well tubeless.
  • larkimlarkim Posts: 2,401
    I’ve never needed the inner tube trick with gorilla tape on cheap rims - I always thought that inner tube idea was to get the tyre shaped properly into the the bead etc.
    2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
    2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #3s)
    2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
    2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
    2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
    2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)
  • rwooferrwoofer Posts: 160
    Gorilla tape is so sticky and softer that you don't need that trick. The downside is that it is a b*gg*r to get the glue off when the tape needs replacing. Tesa tape isn't so sticky and the Bizango stock rims are a complicated shape with some ridges, so this trick makes all the difference.

    Tesa is the same as Stan's rim tape, but cheaper.
  • billycoolbillycool Posts: 833
    Interesting to know. I'll look at the Tesa tape.

    I usually have to use a tube to help the bead settle in the rim. Only for a min and them take it out and crack on.

    Last time I used Stans tape though, it took ages for the tyre to seal, so I might try the overnight inner tube trick.
    "Ride, crash, replace"
  • steve_sordysteve_sordy Posts: 2,376
    BillyCool wrote:
    ...........

    I usually have to use a tube to help the bead settle in the rim. Only for a min and them take it out and crack on.

    Last time I used Stans tape though, it took ages for the tyre to seal, so I might try the overnight inner tube trick.

    You may do this anyway, but it works for me every time if I'm having difficulty getting a seal.

    Leave the tyre pressure high (over 50psi), then shake the wheel vigorously back and forth and side to side to distribute the sealant and then lay the wheel down flat onto a bucket for 20 mins. Then repeat and lay down the other way up. The higher pressure helps force the sealant into any pores in the sidewalls.

    If that doesn't work, then there is something wrong, like leaking rim tape, dodgy valve seal.... So dump the wheel into the water butt, pond, bath.... and find the bubbles.
  • larkimlarkim Posts: 2,401
    When people suggest getting a tube inside to seat the bead, and then removing it - how does that work then? Because every time I take a tube out I've had to effectively release the whole of one side of the tyre, so the bead becomes unhooked by definition, and on the other side it hangs loose. This could just be me completely misunderstanding! It's one of the reasons why I bought an injector syringe for the stans too - I can "test inflate" without sealant, get the bead set and then add sealant through the valve (core removed) to avoid having to unseat the bead.
    2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
    2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #3s)
    2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
    2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
    2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
    2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)
  • billycoolbillycool Posts: 833
    larkim wrote:
    When people suggest getting a tube inside to seat the bead, and then removing it - how does that work then? Because every time I take a tube out I've had to effectively release the whole of one side of the tyre, so the bead becomes unhooked by definition, and on the other side it hangs loose. This could just be me completely misunderstanding! It's one of the reasons why I bought an injector syringe for the stans too - I can "test inflate" without sealant, get the bead set and then add sealant through the valve (core removed) to avoid having to unseat the bead.

    The level of success depends on your tyres and rims.

    For me - a new folding tyre when unpacked has a few `creases` (kinks) in the bead. When I fit it to the rim, there are too many gaps for my compressor to effectively inflate. I use an inner tube to get the bead to fit nice and snug on both sides.

    I then remove the inner tube (and bead) from one side - but the other bead stays in place (unlike your experience). I then inflate with compressor and it all works as it can cope with one bead not being fully fitted.

    The idea is that the tube allows at least one bead to be properly seated. In your experience, it wouldn't work as neither bead is seated properly.

    Some tyres are baggier than others and there are a few variables. I'm surprised that your tyre hangs loose after using a tube to seat it, but it could just be your tyre/rim combo.
    "Ride, crash, replace"
  • billycoolbillycool Posts: 833
    BillyCool wrote:
    ...........

    I usually have to use a tube to help the bead settle in the rim. Only for a min and them take it out and crack on.

    Last time I used Stans tape though, it took ages for the tyre to seal, so I might try the overnight inner tube trick.

    You may do this anyway, but it works for me every time if I'm having difficulty getting a seal.

    Leave the tyre pressure high (over 50psi), then shake the wheel vigorously back and forth and side to side to distribute the sealant and then lay the wheel down flat onto a bucket for 20 mins. Then repeat and lay down the other way up. The higher pressure helps force the sealant into any pores in the sidewalls.

    If that doesn't work, then there is something wrong, like leaking rim tape, dodgy valve seal.... So dump the wheel into the water butt, pond, bath.... and find the bubbles.

    I've always done that since you suggested it last time Steve. On this occasion it didn't work. I'd only used one layer of Stans tape and I'm not sure if it seated properly.

    Gorilla Tape is currently working for me, so it's currently a moot point!
    "Ride, crash, replace"
  • whyamiherewhyamihere Posts: 7,548
    The rim profile is quite important for whether the tubeless setup will be easy or not. See the image below:

    zipp-tubeless-versus-tube-type-rim-profile-estimation.gif

    The tubeless profile is in red, the 'standard' profile is in grey. You can see that on the red rim, as the bead pops up out of the central channel, it gets seated in behind the ridge in the rim, which retains the bead. Some rims don't have the ridge, but they at least have a flat or slightly angled shelf where the bead sits when it is seated. It is still possible to set rims with the grey profile up tubeless, but they depend on there being enough pressure to keep the bead firmly pressed up against the bead hook on the rim - This is where the tyre becomes unseated if the pressure drops enough.

    I've given up trying to convert non-tubeless rims. I've had ok results, but they can be such a faff that I'd rather just stick with tubes until I can get proper tubeless ready rims.

    For what it's worth on this topic, the Line 10 has WTB I29 rims, which are fully tubeless ready. Also, rwoofer on the previous page said that the stock Bizango rims are a complicated shape with some ridges, which may mean that they are properly tubeless compatible as well (though I haven't actually seen these rims).
  • rwooferrwoofer Posts: 160
    Yes, according to your picture the Bizango rims must be tubeless ready out of the box. It is because of those ridges that Tesa/Stan's struggle to stick properly. That was the only problem i had. The Maxxis Ardent tyre bead worked straight away even without sealant or lubrication, but then i was using an Airshot.
  • larkimlarkim Posts: 2,401
    Interesting posts all. I've not taken the tubes out of my new Bizango just yet, but will make sure I take a close look at the rim profiles when I do. The tyre's I've done in the past have been Chunky Monkeys on a complete no-name Rockrider wheelset from 2015, but the point about the bead channel vs the bead hook didn't cause any issues on there - though it does explain why they come unseated when deflated.
    2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
    2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #3s)
    2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
    2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
    2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
    2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)
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