Tubeless mtb tyres

milzy241

Hi, I have Calibre bossnut evo 1x11 and am loving it by the way. However I got a rear flat last wk n just couldn't get my tyre off the rim. Long and short of it is shop said I have good tubeless rims n adequate wtb tyres so why not go tubeless ?? Good idea
I thought but totally new to me....Any advice ?? Some mates say yes defo, some say no too much hassle, some say Kevlar.........aaaaargh !!!!!!!

bigmitch41

Tubeless is the way forward milzy, can be a bit of a pain to setup but once you get the bead sealed you're laughing!

Plenty of tutorials on youtube etc...... Stans is your friend

milzy241

Cheers bigmitch, quite a few have said tubeless is the way. I tend to agree.

Killerclown

milzy241 wrote:

Cheers bigmitch, quite a few have said tubeless is the way. I tend to agree.

Tubeless is a revelation. You can run much lower pressures than you need with a tubed set up, because there’s no longer a tube to risk pinch flatting, which makes riding on rough surfaces much more comfortable, and as long as you keep a check on the sealant condition, you’ll be very unlucky to get a puncture that won’t seal itself, so it’s a win / win really, just be careful on your choice of sealant. Stans is very good.

milzy241

Cheers killerclown, any advice on tyres ?? I'd prefer not to be messing about trail side ???? ......out of laziness really haha

figbat

I avoided tubeless for ages. I wish I hadn’t. After numerous, frequent punctures with tubes I bit the bullet and have not had a single tyre-related issue whilst out in 18 months. I have just replaced my tyres as they were like colanders but were still holding pressure enough for a decent 2 hour ride. One had a 1cm split in it that was very slowly leaking but still held up. Maxxis Minnions just gone on it, HRII and Ardent came off. Tubeless done with Gorilla tape and Stan’s sealant.

milzy241

Nice one figbat, I was looking at maxxis but unsure which. I'm guessing Stans sealant is the way to go.....never heard of it before today!!!

JBA

What tyres do you currently have, milzy241?

steve_sordy

milzy241 wrote:

Nice one figbat, I was looking at maxxis but unsure which. I'm guessing Stans sealant is the way to go.....never heard of it before today!!!

Stans is good, they seem to have the "big brand" name for latex sealants all tied up, but there are others. Latex is especially good if your tyre is not a tubeless tyre or even "tubeless ready" (TLR), this is because the latex seals the tyre walls. Don't let anyone tell you that tyre walls are not porous (tubeless ones aren't, nor TLR), but all the other tyres leak like sieves, especially lightweight tyres but probably not heavyweight DH tyres. Latex sealants stop up the pores and they do a good job too as well as sealing the cuts and punctures. The downside of latex sealants is that they go "off" after a while, six months typically. It has already sealed the tyre wall, as you will see once you remove the tyre and look inside, but the latex will have hardened and will no longer be available to seal punctures and tears. I once heard a rumbling inside my tyre and found a 3D starfish made of latex that had gone off and was bouncing around inside the tyre.

If you have tubeless or TLR tyres, you could go for pretty much any of the non-latex sealants. They work just as well, but they do not go "off". Theoretically I guess it can last for years, but every time you get a puncture, a cut, or just burp the tyre, you will lose some sealant and it will need topping up. That happens with latex too, but usually it has gone off before it runs out, in my experience anyway.

milzy241

JBA
Wtb vigilante in front and trail boss on rear

milzy241

Steve sordy, I'll be buying tubeless tyres, would you say non latex is best then ?? Stans seems the way to go, do they do non latex??
Thanks for the in-depth paragraphs btw.

steve_sordy

milzy241 wrote:

Steve sordy, I'll be buying tubeless tyres, would you say non latex is best then ?? Stans seems the way to go, do they do non latex??
Thanks for the in-depth paragraphs btw.

Hmmm, "best" is not a word I would use. Stans is better for tyres that are not tubeless or TLR. The non-latex sealants are better for all other tyres. But that is only my opinion. I would rather have to just top up a tyre from time to time than have to clean out the tyre that has had latex in it. "Alien goo" anyone?

By the way, despite having sealant-dosed tubeless tyres, you must still be prepared on the trail for having to deal with a flat tyre. Before using sealant I used to have a puncture (and a flat) every 14 miles of riding. After using sealant, although I'm sure I had just as many punctures, I never had a flat for years! I have had tyres that showed via the green dots (or damp patches) of sealant that they had over two dozen punctures. But I never had a flat.

But then I was unlucky enough to buy a tyre that had a production fault and the tyre carcass failed right next to the rim. That was a warranty claim, but the replacement tyre failed in the exact same way at the same place exactly, and after a similar mileage too! It was an impossible fault to fix with a patch of any kind and the sealant hadn't fixed it either. Without all the means to remove and fix the tyre (levers, tube, pump), I would have had a long walk home. The fact I never needed them for eight years, but still carried the weight did not bother me, I saw them as my talisman that prevented flats. (Well, they did for eight years!)

Always, always take the means to get you home after a flat. 8)

JBA

milzy241 wrote:

JBA
Wtb vigilante in front and trail boss on rear

If they are the Comp compound you’ll struggle to set them up tubeless.

Get some decent tyres, a roll of rim tape (or Gorilla tape), a pair of valves, sealant* and away you go.
There are loads of instruction videos and step by step guides on the web.
If you are lucky you’ll be able to get the tyres seated with a track pump. Otherwise borrow a booster or make a ghetto inflator.
Tubeless is the way ahead.

*I use Stan’s in two bikes and Orange Seal in another and both work well.

bigmitch41

I ride with Schwalbe tubeless tyres, nobby nic on the front and a rocket ron on the rear, stans valves and sealant and gorilla tape on the rim. Check and replace fluid every six months. Always carry a tube just in case, and always check the inside of the tyre for thorns before chucking a tube in trail side, or you'll be looking at a second flat tyre 5 minutes down the road...

t0ffeeman

BigMitch41 wrote:

and always check the inside of the tyre for thorns before chucking a tube in trail side, or you'll be looking at a second flat tyre 5 minutes down the road...

Now that is a top tip when you're new to running tubeless and need to use a tube ... i learnt the hard way

steve_sordy

T0ffeeMan wrote:

BigMitch41 wrote:

and always check the inside of the tyre for thorns before chucking a tube in trail side, or you'll be looking at a second flat tyre 5 minutes down the road...

Now that is a top tip when you're new to running tubeless and need to use a tube ... i learnt the hard way

Another top tip is not to use your fingers to do the checking! That is the way to get a slashed fingertip. Instead use a hanky or a tissue. You will feel it snag but you won't get a cut.

cycleclinic

Use tyre plugs not a tube for repair. You have to use tacky plugs though. The weldite kit has thin plugs now which are not tacky enough and too small for bigger cuts. You can further enhance tubeless with an insert.

Tyre plug kit needs 3.5mm and 1.5mm thick plugs. Double up for the big stuff. An insert reduces the risk of punctures. During the weekends race I had 15psi front and 18psi rear with a insert using 29x2.1" tubeless tyres. I weight 85kg. Normally I run these tyres at 20f/22r psi. Even at 20psi the insert made the bike more predictable.

bigmitch41

Good shout, Anchovies or dog turds etc.................. essential!

steve_sordy

BigMitch41 wrote:

Good shout, Anchovies or dog turds etc.................. essential!

OK, I give up! I'm not smart enough to get where you're coming from. :oops:

tallpaul_s

A tube is there as a last resort fix, 90% of punctures will be sealed by the sealant, I use orange seal endurance stuff. If I've had a puncture over the last 500 miles I haven't been aware of it!!

For tape, get some tesa 4289 tape, it's the same as stans but much cheaper.

And anchovies, or tyre plugs are thin 2-3" long sticky rubber strings which you plug any holes too big for the sealant to fill.

Basically huge rip in the tyre = tube
Hole up to 1cm wide, tyre plug
Every other hole up to a few mm the sealant will do it's job.

Going tubeless should be the very first thing you do on a new bike

steve_sordy

TallPaul_S wrote:

...............

And anchovies, or tyre plugs are thin 2-3" long sticky rubber strings which you plug any holes too big for the sealant to fill.

Basically huge rip in the tyre = tube
Hole up to 1cm wide, tyre plug
Every other hole up to a few mm the sealant will do it's job.

Going tubeless should be the very first thing you do on a new bike

Well that has answered one question! Anchovies who would have thought? Every day is a learning day!

ref "huge rip in the tyre = tube". Hmm, it may have worked for you, but I reckon the tube would blow out through it, probably explosively! So I carry a tyre patch to put on the inside of the tyre over the rip to stop the tube from expanding into the rip. I have heard of riders using bits of old packaging, gel tubes, layers of crisp packets found trail side. I'd look out for old inner tubes that some bar steward rider has discarded.

bigmitch41

steve_sordy wrote:

TallPaul_S wrote:

...............

And anchovies, or tyre plugs are thin 2-3" long sticky rubber strings which you plug any holes too big for the sealant to fill.

Basically huge rip in the tyre = tube
Hole up to 1cm wide, tyre plug
Every other hole up to a few mm the sealant will do it's job.

Going tubeless should be the very first thing you do on a new bike

Well that has answered one question! Anchovies who would have thought? Every day is a learning day!

ref "huge rip in the tyre = tube". Hmm, it may have worked for you, but I reckon the tube would blow out through it, probably explosively! So I carry a tyre patch to put on the inside of the tyre over the rip to stop the tube from expanding into the rip. I have heard of riders using bits of old packaging, gel tubes, layers of crisp packets found trail side. I'd look out for old inner tubes that some bar steward rider has discarded.

Sorry yes the appearance resembles something similar to an Anchovy or err........... a dog censored lol.

https://www.merlincycles.com/weldtite-t ... EiEALw_wcB

Good point re a tyre boot/patch if putting a tube in when the tyre has a rip in it, I hear the plastic fivers work well too, but then your stuffed if heading for the pub afterwards on the way home

milzy241

Wow, i have tapped into the right group of people. thank you all for your advice. Tallpaul liking the plug thing, do i buy them seperate and 'slot' them in myself trail side and then pump the tyre up ???
Also.........when i was told in the shop i had good tubeless rims but average tyres, i told them i tried for ages to get the tyre off the rim but physically couldn't. If i go tubeless will i be able to get the tyres off the rim if i need to ??? I'm no seven stone weakling but i found it impossible. The guy in the shop said it was because the 'average' tyres had a stiff beading in them to keep them on the tubeless rims.
Cheers

steve_sordy

milzy241 wrote:

Wow, i have tapped into the right group of people. thank you all for your advice. Tallpaul liking the plug thing, do i buy them seperate and 'slot' them in myself trail side and then pump the tyre up ???
Also.........when i was told in the shop i had good tubeless rims but average tyres, i told them i tried for ages to get the tyre off the rim but physically couldn't. If i go tubeless will i be able to get the tyres off the rim if i need to ??? I'm no seven stone weakling but i found it impossible. The guy in the shop said it was because the 'average' tyres had a stiff beading in them to keep them on the tubeless rims.
Cheers

Stay away from wire beaded tyres, go for the kevlar beaded ones, sometime called "folding" tyres. The folding tyres are also lighter, and yes they can be a bit more expensive.

To make tyre removal easier, try this:

This is easier if you remove the wheel, so try it for your first time, then decide whether it is necessary.

Deflate the tyre.
Lay the wheel on its side and press a blunt object against the tyre close to the rim. I use my mini-pump.
Press down with some force until the tyre bead comes off the rim and moves in towards the wheel well.
Work your way around the wheel until the whole side of the tyre is in the centre of the well of the rim.
Use your levers to pull the tyre over the rim. (See note* below).
Remove the tube, repair and refit.
If you need to remove the whole tyre, turn the wheel over and repeat.

Note* Because the opposite side of the tyre to where your levers are is in the well, it is free to move. This gives you more room and less resistance to lever the tyre over the rim.

tallpaul_s

I'd try and avoid using tyre levers if going tubeless, you should be able to remove and fit a tyre just with your hands, it'll take a bit of strength and some technique but it's perfectly possible.

Tyre levers can damage tyre beads and tubeless tape, two of the most important things that will allow tyres to seat without a tube.

steve_sordy

TallPaul_S wrote:

I'd try and avoid using tyre levers if going tubeless, you should be able to remove and fit a tyre just with your hands, it'll take a bit of strength and some technique but it's perfectly possible.

Tyre levers can damage tyre beads and tubeless tape, two of the most important things that will allow tyres to seat without a tube.

Some tyre/rim combos I've had would have defeated Hercules, let alone pencil-wristed me! And what about the women? (Simultaneously disparaging women by saying that they need to use tyre levers, yet rescuing myself by assuming that they would also be keen to change their own tyres) .

I don't have the rim tape anywhere near the internal shoulder, so there is nothing for the tyre or the levers to touch. All the sealing has been between the tyre bead and the rim, with the help of sealant.

cycleclinic

The weldite worms are too small and only tacky enough to hold in place in low pressure MTB tyres. Bigger ones are also needed and by putting two or three together bigger scissor slits can be plugs. I was demonstrating this at the cycle show. Not all plugs are equal. There is a reason why the weldite kit is cheap. Merlin sell another kit that everything you actually need and you probably don't have to carry a tube. I don't because I know I can fill a 1.5cm slit without difficulty.

also insert transform tubeless. I have a orange stage 4 with 29x2.1" tyres that I normally run at 22 psi front and 24 psi rear. With a volumous insert Again visit merlin cycles but of course there are numerous alternatives you can drop the tyre pressues. I have gone as low as 15 psi front 18 rear but have settled on 20F/20R with PTN. even with that modest pressure drop riding in and out of ruts is far more controlled. So on smooth terrain you dont notice much if any difference. On rough terrain the bike is more controllable. It like the difference between tubes and tubeless all over again. I also use Schwalbe pro core and that on a rigid bike transforms it. They are often sold as a way to prevent rim or tyre damage but to me this is a side effect as you end up feeling like you have wider tyres than you actually have.

milzy241

Again.....massively helpful. The knowledge just keeps coming.
I have found a sealant i am happy with, the muc off sealant 10/10 on this site, and looking into the tyres, the folding ones sound pretty cool. Tape i'm hearing is pretty much a muchness but i'll get the good stuff. I'd rather do it 'right' once than faff about, especially trailside, in the possible rain / snow etc.........though i know you cannot 100% puncture proof tyres. So.....the 'anchovies' ie tyre plugs !!!!???? Any brand recommended ?? And do you literally poke them in the hole / slit ??
Many thanks

figbat

I don’t carry the worms, just a spare tube and a tyre boot in case I get a cut that won’t seal. So far they remain unused.

steve_sordy

figbat wrote:

I don’t carry the worms, just a spare tube and a tyre boot in case I get a cut that won’t seal. So far they remain unused.

Me too!

hey maybe I've just started something!