300W FTP but no chance in marathon

patrick.rainer

Hello guys

I startet serious Mountain Biking, one year ago. In this time I lost 25 Kg (Now I am 72Kg) of weight and could push my FTP from 213Watts to 300Watts.

So I startet racing MTB-Marathons. But in the first Marathon of the year I was with no chance. My ranking was 70/108.
- Is that normal with this poweroutput?
- Is the level in racing that high?
- What FTP is needed to rank into the first 20%?

Thanks for serious answers.

cougie

What are your skills like ?

patrick.rainer

cougie wrote:

What are your skills like ?

If you are meaning the downhill and tech-skills, these are average.

Dave_P1

There's more to it than just FTP. Endurance and skills play a big part.

patrick.rainer

Dave_P1 wrote:

There's more to it than just FTP. Endurance and skills play a big part.

How can I identify the crucial weakness?

Dave_P1

patrick.rainer wrote:

Dave_P1 wrote:

There's more to it than just FTP. Endurance and skills play a big part.

How can I identify the crucial weakness?

You need to look at the demands of the event. Are you getting dropped at the beginning of the race or towards the end? Is it hard recovering from hard efforts, e.g climbing a hill. Look at previous races and try to break down where it started getting too hard. Having power meter data is helpful for a really good insight into it, but not everyone has one fitted of course.

cougie

Really no need for power data. Where do you lose ground. Where are you getting passed ?

patrick.rainer

cougie wrote:

Really no need for power data. Where do you lose ground. Where are you getting passed ?

Uphill im getting passed or I can't go the same speed, as people in front of me. In the flat parts, I am faster than the other guys, most time. Downhill I would say, I am in the middle, some pass me, some I going to pass.

MTB-Marathons are not that technical as XCO. So I don't think this is a critical problem.

If your answer is now, you have to train uphill, or you have to lose weight, thats not new for me. Overall with the actual power I am not fast enough to hold in the front part.

I think I need just to work one more year on my base power and then going into specific skills. It was just the first race this year. Another event with another elevetian profile is coming in two weeks.

fenix

You need to take the first few races as learning really - you can't expect to peform perfectly in your first race.

When i raced XC it was a mad dash at the start and you have to be ready for that to put yourself into the red to gain places. After that it was pick people off on the climbs, hold or gain places on the flat and let the kamikaze dudes take you on the downhills.

If you dont get a good start you've too many people to get past on the climbing and single track.

Good luck for the next race.

imafatman

You will hear people talking about "power profiles" quite a bit with respect to power because outright FTP is not necessarily an accurate measure of someones capability on a particular course because you almost never have to sit at your FTP unless you are doing like an hour time trial or something. It's more about your ability to surge and recover rather than your outright FTP figure.

So it may be that those guys who are beating you on the climbs simply have way more power than you for those particular time intervals.

The Rookie

If you think logically if you are pedalling at the same power as another guy you will be the same speed uphill AND on the flat, so if you are doing worse comparatively uphill its more to do with technique or gear selection than it is about power.

steve_sordy

I had to look it up :oops:

FTP = Functional Threshold Power.

https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/art ... -it-48624/

whyamihere

The Rookie wrote:

If you think logically if you are pedalling at the same power as another guy you will be the same speed uphill AND on the flat, so if you are doing worse comparatively uphill its more to do with technique or gear selection than it is about power.

That's only true if both riders are the same weight, have the same coefficient of drag, rolling resistance, etc. On the flat, weight has way less of an impact than up a steep hill.

patrick.rainer

I can give you guys a Feedback to my stats. My FTP raised more, so it's around 310 Watts now, my CTL reached 100 and I let it go for about 95 for now. It's mid season and I had some more races and had two Top 20 results and some other good results in the top 20%. I am satisfied how is it going for 1 year training.

My next goal, is to bring the FTP to 350Watts until next mainseason. Glad for every good tip, preferred from people who have done this already.

_HENDO_

Keep in mind that FTP is used as a marker of fitness rather than a predictor of your off road performance.

Depending on your training style you could be missing out key event demands. You need to consider your time to exhaustion if you are specialising in XCM.

A CTL of 100 is pretty standard for endurance athletes so you need to identify your strengths and weaknesses (it sounds like you have based on recent performances).
If you need any further help please feel free to get in touch!

steve_sordy

Have you thought about skills training?

How you enter and leave corners, your body position on the bike, ability to surmount obstacles will all gain or lose you time and places.

I am not a racer, never even entered a race, but I do like to be faster than others. I can't help noticing that my speed improved as my skills improved.

patrick.rainer

_HENDO_ wrote:

Keep in mind that FTP is used as a marker of fitness rather than a predictor of your off road performance.

Depending on your training style you could be missing out key event demands. You need to consider your time to exhaustion if you are specialising in XCM.

A CTL of 100 is pretty standard for endurance athletes so you need to identify your strengths and weaknesses (it sounds like you have based on recent performances).
If you need any further help please feel free to get in touch!

Thank you "Hendo" for your advice. It's clear that it needs more than train for an FTP to become a good XCM Racer. I did analyze some of the data of the best 10% riders. All of them pressing over 300W or 5W/kg in the uphills. Even the fatique resistence will be better, the FTP need's to be on that level, because it's not realistic to ride 3 hours at FTP.

I think what I have done in one year by myself from nowhere, was pretty ok. Now I decided getting a coach to not wasting time in the wrong things. Sorry you are a little to late, I have already signed. :?

patrick.rainer

steve_sordy wrote:

Have you thought about skills training?

How you enter and leave corners, your body position on the bike, ability to surmount obstacles will all gain or lose you time and places.

I am not a racer, never even entered a race, but I do like to be faster than others. I can't help noticing that my speed improved as my skills improved.

Skills can definitly play their part. At the moment I would say I am at the midrange. This will be a part what I wan't to integrate more into my training.

shawny

My FTP is over 300 watts, but the power outputs needed for cx and xc races varies greatly. For example for a cx race my average output is just over 200 watts and my Max power will hit up to 800 watts, my HR will be around 170 av and my max is 182. The power needed is very on and off depending on the elevation etc. So I train on my turbo to try and replicate the on/off power needed etc.