Tory leadership bid

2

Comments

  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,866
    Jeremy and Boris, impossible to get a more polarising leadership choice come the next election

    I would argue their primary strength is in rabble rousing their core support whilst being sketchy on detail and hard work.
  • socrates
    socrates Posts: 453
    What people need to realise is that Sinn Fein have no right to remind anyone of anything. It is amazing how they talk of equality and respect after supporting murder etc for over 30 years. They now want respect on their terms. Respect is not given, it is earned. There has been much wailing over a DUP/Tory Coalition especially denigrating the DUP. The 2 main parties in the Republic formed a coalition so what is the problem with 2 democratically elected parties doing this and let's not forget the Labour Party made overtures and courted the DUP in 2010.
  • meanredspider
    meanredspider Posts: 12,337
    I think what is really depressing is that no party currently has a leader or candidate that I'd have any respect for. Benn jnr (and my wife thinks Kinnock jnr) might be one day and I think Ruth Davidson might be too. Ms Krankie should have gone after completely misreading the vibe on Indy Ref II
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  • mrfpb
    mrfpb Posts: 4,569
    socrates wrote:
    What people need to realise is that Sinn Fein have no right to remind anyone of anything. It is amazing how they talk of equality and respect after supporting murder etc for over 30 years. They now want respect on their terms. Respect is not given, it is earned. There has been much wailing over a DUP/Tory Coalition especially denigrating the DUP. The 2 main parties in the Republic formed a coalition so what is the problem with 2 democratically elected parties doing this and let's not forget the Labour Party made overtures and courted the DUP in 2010.

    The DUP also supported murder and terrorism for 30+ years. There is no point going back to the old rhetoric as if the Good Friday agreement never happened.. There has been a peace process and both sides put down there guns. Well, mostly. There is still sectarian violence, but both Sinn Fein and DUP condemn it.

    The danger for the DUP is that if they fanny around too long over the Assembly and Westminster negotiations, then the next NI election may result in Sinn Fein being the largest party and Republicans having a majority. Coalitions never make the minority party look good.

    pri_43008771.jpg?w=748&h=417&crop=1
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    socrates wrote:
    What people need to realise is that Sinn Fein have no right to remind anyone of anything. It is amazing how they talk of equality and respect after supporting murder etc for over 30 years. They now want respect on their terms. Respect is not given, it is earned. There has been much wailing over a DUP/Tory Coalition especially denigrating the DUP. The 2 main parties in the Republic formed a coalition so what is the problem with 2 democratically elected parties doing this and let's not forget the Labour Party made overtures and courted the DUP in 2010.

    You need to move on, your argument would apply to the ANC, SWAPO FRELIMO etc.

    If you want peace then at one point or another the "enemy" needs to come on board.

    The DUP arrangement has the danger of bring back the old resentments and arguments and a potential break down of a peace process, haven't we enough trouble in the UK without risking adding to it?
  • letap73
    letap73 Posts: 1,608
    Good post mrfpb and Mambo 80.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Jeremy and Boris, impossible to get a more polarising leadership choice come the next election

    On the other hand, middle of the road dangerous buffoon enthusiasts won't know where to put their vote.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • solosuperia
    solosuperia Posts: 333
    I was thinking Ruth Davidson would have been the best bet......
    But on reflection adjusted my thinking......
    The next leader is an interim one. The infighting and backstabbing will do an Ian Duncan Smith or William Hague on whoever it is, and Davidson knows this which is why she is staying well clear.
    As a relatively young woman she can wait, get some more experience under her belt and lead in about a decade.
    When May goes we will get a grey man, 'safe pair of hands' type. This boring but capable type is exactly what I would like to see. Ninja administrator, not political poseur.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,866
    I was thinking Ruth Davidson would have been the best bet......
    But on reflection adjusted my thinking......
    The next leader is an interim one. The infighting and backstabbing will do an Ian Duncan Smith or William Hague on whoever it is, and Davidson knows this which is why she is staying well clear.
    As a relatively young woman she can wait, get some more experience under her belt and lead in about a decade.
    When May goes we will get a grey man, 'safe pair of hands' type. This boring but capable type is exactly what I would like to see. Ninja administrator, not political poseur.


    you have just described Theresa May - they won't replace like for like
  • letap73
    letap73 Posts: 1,608
  • slowmart
    slowmart Posts: 4,474
    It won't be Boris as he's too polarising for the electorate or if it is the Tories will be in the electoral wilderness until he's despatched as leader
    “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

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  • BelgianBeerGeek
    BelgianBeerGeek Posts: 5,226
    Slowmart wrote:
    It won't be Boris as he's too polarising for the electorate or if it is the Tories will be in the electoral wilderness until he's despatched as leader
    Really? I can see him as PM. Reckon he is modelling himself on Churchill. The wilderness years, his journalism, writing, changing sides when he feels like it (opportunist/pragmatism), posh background becoming man of the people, coming to our help in the nations hour of need etc. Could all come good for Bozza yet.
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  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,598
    Slowmart wrote:
    It won't be Boris as he's too polarising for the electorate or if it is the Tories will be in the electoral wilderness until he's despatched as leader
    Time for a thread to "save the Country"?
    :lol::lol::lol:
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  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,866
    Slowmart wrote:
    It won't be Boris as he's too polarising for the electorate or if it is the Tories will be in the electoral wilderness until he's despatched as leader

    you are getting ahead of yourself. You need to consider the two different electorates you need to win over to become Tory Party leader.
    The first is Tory MPs - Boris struggles in this area as they know him and think that he is a rude, vacuous twat. However if he is the only Hard Brexit Candidate then he might get through the the final two who go before the second electorate.

    150,000 Tory party members - if you have ever met one you will know that these people are serious oddballs clinging to the opportunity to serve on a sub-committee and to meet somebody famous. These are Boris's people, you only need to see his performances at Conference to know that he knows how to push their buttons.

    I genuinely believe that Leaders with no strong beliefs, who just want to cling to power are better for the country. Just look at Blair when he just wanted to win elections compared to when he found some convictions. I also think that the less they do the better and Boris is lazy. He did virtually nothing as Mayor and is deemed a success.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,245
    The first is Tory MPs - Boris struggles in this area as they know him and think that he is a rude, vacuous fool. However if he is the only Hard Brexit Candidate then he might get through the the final two who go before the second electorate.

    Does he? He helps them keep their seats.

    #1 priority.
  • bendertherobot
    bendertherobot Posts: 11,684

    Harsh. She has to do fundraising to pay the party back for the money it spent on her snap election.
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  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,866
    The first is Tory MPs - Boris struggles in this area as they know him and think that he is a rude, vacuous fool. However if he is the only Hard Brexit Candidate then he might get through the the final two who go before the second electorate.

    Does he? He helps them keep their seats.

    #1 priority.

    however he is an unpredictable idiot with a background of Eton, Oxford and Bullingdon - could be an easy target for the opposition.

    I guess it depends on whether you think the electorate will soak up his political outsider, man of the people schtick again and see a vote for him as a hammer blow against the establishment :shock:
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,245
    The first is Tory MPs - Boris struggles in this area as they know him and think that he is a rude, vacuous fool. However if he is the only Hard Brexit Candidate then he might get through the the final two who go before the second electorate.

    Does he? He helps them keep their seats.

    #1 priority.

    however he is an unpredictable idiot with a background of Eton, Oxford and Bullingdon - could be an easy target for the opposition.

    I guess it depends on whether you think the electorate will soak up his political outsider, man of the people schtick again and see a vote for him as a hammer blow against the establishment :shock:

    He's the British version of Trump.

    If Trump is the offpsring of the rich running wild with no constraints, borris is the same but for class and privilege.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,719


    He's the British version of Trump.

    If Trump is the offpsring of the rich running wild with no constraints, borris is the same but for class and privilege.


    I can see where you are coming from in that it's possible to portray both as buffoons but I think Trump is far more unpredictable, self serving and dangerous. I've no doubt Johnson will do what 99% of public schoolboys in politics do and ultimately protect the interests of their own class but alongside that I do credit Boris with a degree of understanding of history and socio-political forces that I don't believe Trump has or at least cares about.

    I suspect Boris is not purely self serving, he does want to do the best for Britain albeit his vision of Britain may not be shared by all of us. What does Trump care about, money, power, staying out of jail, Im not sure he cares what he achieves with all that.
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  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,513
    The biggest problem is the need to spend months asking the members to vote. If the government loses a no confidence vote, what are they going to do? Fight the election with May? Fight the election on the basis that another unknown leader will be selected after the election?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,245

    I suspect Boris is not purely self serving, he does want to do the best for Britain albeit his vision of Britain may not be shared by all of us. .

    His deliberations on which side of brexit to pick suggest otherwise.
  • FocusZing
    FocusZing Posts: 4,373
    It's interesting both his father and sister were both remainers and seemed to be forthcoming with their opinions.
  • socrates
    socrates Posts: 453
    Wrong mrfpb. The DUP have not been twiddling their thumbs. It was not up to them to form a govt in N.I. It was for all parties to agree on a Govt. not just one party. However SF want to have a say in who the DUP elect as their leader. That would be like the Labour Party electing the Con leader. Also things are a little bit more complicated as SF will not compromise on anything. It is their way or nothing. They talk of equality and respect and show none to anyone who does not agree with their opinions.
  • mrfpb
    mrfpb Posts: 4,569
    SF want Arlene Foster to stand down, given that it was her behaviour that led to an unnecessary NI election. That's just normal politics. In the same way the Lib Dems refused to form a gov't with Labour in 2010 if Gordon Brown remained as leader.

    DUP are the biggest party in NI assembly, so should be taking the lead on forming a new gov't with SF, but 3 months on they are nowhere. I've said before that Foster and May seem to be two of a kind. The idea of them joining forces becomes more obviously a joke with every passing day.

    Re: Boris. He has won the London Mayoral election twice, a post that traditionally goes to Labour candidates (if you accept the old GLC as the equivalent of London Assembly). If he was able to lead his own campaign, rather than having to follow May's or Gove's lead, he is likely to do well.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,866
    genuine question - why do you feel Foster should not have to resign over the renewable energy issue?
  • letap73
    letap73 Posts: 1,608
    Lest we forget - as a journalist BoJo produce a whole series of pro EU articles. He jumped ship when he sniffed the opportunity of leadership of the Tory party. In terms of credibility and integrity I would rather vote for BoBo the clown then BoJo.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,719

    I suspect Boris is not purely self serving, he does want to do the best for Britain albeit his vision of Britain may not be shared by all of us. .

    His deliberations on which side of brexit to pick suggest otherwise.

    Yeah, that aside!
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • slowmart
    slowmart Posts: 4,474
    Slowmart wrote:
    It won't be Boris as he's too polarising for the electorate or if it is the Tories will be in the electoral wilderness until he's despatched as leader
    Really? I can see him as PM. Reckon he is modelling himself on Churchill. The wilderness years, his journalism, writing, changing sides when he feels like it (opportunist/pragmatism), posh background becoming man of the people, coming to our help in the nations hour of need etc. Could all come good for Bozza yet.

    The great British public aren't that stupid....oh wait a minute ...
    “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

    Desmond Tutu
  • narbs
    narbs Posts: 593
    When an interviewer doesn't go along with his bumbling clown act this is what happens....

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/b ... n-10662968