Giro 2017: Stage 21: Monza – Milano 29.3 km ITT
Comments
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47p2 wrote:I'm thinking Quintana wasn't that bothered about winning the Giro and was only there as a training excercise for the TDF. He never pushed himself and never committed to any of the attacks he or others started. Maybe he's trying to lure Froome a false sense of how fit he really is. My guess is that he will be on top form for the TDF and will fight right to the end to try and win... Watch this space...
I don't agree a guy wearing pink the last day considers the race a training exercise. If they had, they'd have pushed then tapered. He lost because he's not mentally strong enough to attack the other GC contenders and make it stick, as all champs have to do. He sits on wheels and loses. Nibbles and NQ lost that race because they spent too much time looking at each other rather than attacking TD to see him off, before turning their attention to each other.
He's an excellent rider but rather like Richie Porte, he's not got the last 2% to be great.
WELL DONE TOM, A CRACKIN' WIN.'Performance analysis and Froome not being clean was a media driven story. I haven’t heard one guy in the peloton say a negative thing about Froome, and I haven’t heard a single person in the peloton suggest Froome isn’t clean.' TSP0 -
Double post. :oops:'Performance analysis and Froome not being clean was a media driven story. I haven’t heard one guy in the peloton say a negative thing about Froome, and I haven’t heard a single person in the peloton suggest Froome isn’t clean.' TSP0
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I think it's well accepted that the Giro is the worst possible preparation for the Tour. Quintana was there to win but came up short. He didn't look different to how he looks in the Tour but I guess he may have a bit in hand, still think Froome will beat him.0
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davieb78 wrote:
They always do that... it's bad taste and they should refrain. If you are sick you retire, otherwise just race and shut up.left the forum March 20230 -
Hmm. If he was only sick on stage 19, what is he blaming the rest of the race on? It's fairly clear to anyone watching that Dumoulin won the race because he was stronger in the mountains than expected, whilst Quintana was weaker than expected. He couldn't drop an aging Nibali most of the time. The obvious conclusion is that Quintana came into the race undercooked.ugo.santalucia wrote:
They always do that... it's bad taste and they should refrain. If you are sick you retire, otherwise just race and shut up.davieb78 wrote:0 -
thegibdog wrote:
Hmm. If he was only sick on stage 19, what is he blaming the rest of the race on? It's fairly clear to anyone watching that Dumoulin won the race because he was stronger in the mountains than expected, whilst Quintana was weaker than expected. He couldn't drop an aging Nibali most of the time. The obvious conclusion is that Quintana came into the race undercooked.ugo.santalucia wrote:
They always do that... it's bad taste and they should refrain. If you are sick you retire, otherwise just race and shut up.davieb78 wrote:
He came in undercooked on purpose so he has some chance of being in form for the Tour. I think he just expected to be better in the mountains anyway. Cocky from Movistar maybe?0 -
Maybe he's actually not as good as he thinks he is.
Everyone has a day or days during a three week tour when they are not 100%. It's part of what the race is about.0 -
Quintana was clearly riding better when he soloed to victory than later on in the race when he didn't look likely to even get a gap. On that basis I could believe he was a bit ill.
In the hypothetical world where he was fully fit, he would still have needed to make up 2 mins or so from Dumoulin's toilet stop which wouldn't have happened.
I don't get all the Dumoulin love. Reminds me too much of Indurain. Cycling is better with shorter TTs. Still, he was the best man given the parcours.0 -
2x 30-40km TTs isn't really that much though. If Quintana had taken the multiple minutes in the mountains that a lot of people expected then the TTs would have been totally irrelevant. As evidenced by the fact Quintana was the outright favourite.0
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Surely each GT needs/has to have a minimum number of TT km as other wise it just become a climbers race - when you really want the best 'all round' rider to win. I think this year, the Giro got it about right; and we ended up with the pure climber v TT Specialist who can climb pretty well.All Road/ Gravel: tbcWinter: tbcMTB: tbcRoad: tbc"Look at the time...." "he's fallen like an old lady on a cruise ship..."0
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^there were shots of him on day 19 when his usual blank expression was cracking.
With a three week tour Being able to ride through illness is often going to be key. Tom's ability to keep racing up a mountain with the squits then doing it all over again the following day was, even more than his Tt, how he won.0 -
I confess I watched very little of it but good on Tommy D!! Judging from my old bike clubs WA group the Dutch have claimed this for all Netherlands!
(and Ha screw you to sarky Nibbles and Negative Nairo . Go an actually try to win something rather than expecting it just to fall into your lap) :oops:
Not bad for Laurens Ten Dam. Cruise around an everlasting training camp in California, rock up to Italy for 3 weeks and win the Giro...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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So, the consensus is:
Quintana and Nibali, heavily criticised for not attacking enough.
Dumoulin roundly applauded for not attacking at all.
Hence time gaps maketh the race.
Frayed knot for me."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:So, the consensus is:
Quintana and Nibali, heavily criticised for not attacking enough.
Dumoulin roundly applauded for not attacking at all.
Hence time gaps maketh the race.
Frayed knot for me.
Dumoulin attacked on the Oropa stage.Correlation is not causation.0 -
Also the onus was on Nibali and Quintana to attack since they are supposed to be the best climbers... Particularly Quintana.0
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Dumoulin is known for his strong TT and being able to hang on when the road goes uphill and Nibs & Quintana are known for being able to dance up the hills whilst being able to put a decent TT together. It's hardly surprising that they get a bit of grief when they don't do that.Blazing Saddles wrote:So, the consensus is:
Quintana and Nibali, heavily criticised for not attacking enough.
Dumoulin roundly applauded for not attacking at all.
Hence time gaps maketh the race.
Frayed knot for me.
Dumoulin didn't really put a foot wrong other than needing to stop for a shit and losing a bit of concentration on a downhill.0 -
Expectations innit.
Tom's backwards breaks were exciting 'cos we ain't seen that style of GC riding for ages.
Quintana bossing it on Blockhaus felt like it was the bear minimum, and the Brits were annoyed about the accident with the rozzers.0 -
For me that Giro was TT heavy. I don't mind that as an occasional race but I wouldn't want every grand tour to have so many kms of TT especially ones which suit the power rider because very often a lot of the GC contenders are eliminated. We've had a great race but had Dumoulin not had to stop the race for pink would have been over after that first TT.
As for Quintana and Nibali - I really don't get the hate. Well done to Dumoulin and the climbers vs TT specialist battle needed him but Quintana and especially Nibali were not particularly conservtive in this Giro. We had the attempt to break Dumoulin with the long range break which could have succeeded had other GC favourites not had interests to ride, we had Quintana go on the attack on the penultimate mountain only to be pulled back and try again on the final, we had Nibali try and attack often but fail to get away. The only criticism I'd level at anyone is there were a couple of times Quintana could have cooperated earlier with Nibali but I think he was too concerned about the threat Nibali posed.
Bottom line is Quintana hasn't lived up to expectations and Nibali has always relied on being consistent and taking opportunities when others falter (not a criticism he's the best "racer" of the GC riders in that sense) rather than having amazing physical abilities.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
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thegibdog wrote:Giro ITT kms this century:
Interesting. The thing about this year was all the TTkms suited a tester, they weren't very technical and there wasn't much climbing.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
DeVlaeminck wrote:As for Quintana and Nibali - I really don't get the hate. Well done to Dumoulin and the climbers vs TT specialist battle needed him but Quintana and especially Nibali were not particularly conservtive in this Giro. We had the attempt to break Dumoulin with the long range break which could have succeeded had other GC favourites not had interests to ride, we had Quintana go on the attack on the penultimate mountain only to be pulled back and try again on the final, we had Nibali try and attack often but fail to get away. The only criticism I'd level at anyone is there were a couple of times Quintana could have cooperated earlier with Nibali but I think he was too concerned about the threat Nibali posed.
Exactly this.0 -
If Dumoulin hadn't had the number two issue, he'd have been miles ahead of Quintana. Hence, I think it's entirely fair for Quintana to be seen critically. He is supposed to be the heir apparent to the GC crown once Froome is done and possibly even before.PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 20230
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Milton50 wrote:DeVlaeminck wrote:As for Quintana and Nibali - I really don't get the hate. Well done to Dumoulin and the climbers vs TT specialist battle needed him but Quintana and especially Nibali were not particularly conservtive in this Giro. We had the attempt to break Dumoulin with the long range break which could have succeeded had other GC favourites not had interests to ride, we had Quintana go on the attack on the penultimate mountain only to be pulled back and try again on the final, we had Nibali try and attack often but fail to get away. The only criticism I'd level at anyone is there were a couple of times Quintana could have cooperated earlier with Nibali but I think he was too concerned about the threat Nibali posed.
Exactly this.
Yeah, fair summary. I think a lot of people just fail to understand the effort it takes to sustain an attack, especially from long range. I'm not convinced it was a TT heavy race or even that the type of TT miles suited a specialist, if anything I would say it felt climbing light by recent Giro standards but that could just be down to the lack of big MTFs.0 -
Pross wrote:Milton50 wrote:DeVlaeminck wrote:As for Quintana and Nibali - I really don't get the hate. Well done to Dumoulin and the climbers vs TT specialist battle needed him but Quintana and especially Nibali were not particularly conservtive in this Giro. We had the attempt to break Dumoulin with the long range break which could have succeeded had other GC favourites not had interests to ride, we had Quintana go on the attack on the penultimate mountain only to be pulled back and try again on the final, we had Nibali try and attack often but fail to get away. The only criticism I'd level at anyone is there were a couple of times Quintana could have cooperated earlier with Nibali but I think he was too concerned about the threat Nibali posed.
Exactly this.
Yeah, fair summary. I think a lot of people just fail to understand the effort it takes to sustain an attack, especially from long range. I'm not convinced it was a TT heavy race or even that the type of TT miles suited a specialist, if anything I would say it felt climbing light by recent Giro standards but that could just be down to the lack of big MTFs.
Before the race people were expecting Quintana to take minutes in the high mountains. That obviously didn't happen for whatever reason.
Personally, rather than it being shoddy tactics from Quintana I think the reason is a combination of Dumoulin taking a big step upwards, combined with Quintana not really having the legs to make big attacks stick (it wasn't just Dumoulin - most of the GC guys were able to at least peg their losses to Quintana).0 -
I think the Dumoulin love is mostly because he was a bit gobby instead of giving the usual platitudes. The greatest sin is to be boring, so if your riding isn't the most exciting then it's time to open your trap, but most riders don't play that game. The others were just a bit dull.0
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Pross wrote:Yeah, fair summary. I think a lot of people just fail to understand the effort it takes to sustain an attack, especially from long range. I'm not convinced it was a TT heavy race or even that the type of TT miles suited a specialist, if anything I would say it felt climbing light by recent Giro standards but that could just be down to the lack of big MTFs.
More specifically: all the final week finishing climbs did this:
Not one did this:
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Delete. I wish could."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0
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