Wheel upgrade for vanity/crit racing

LWLondon

HELP! Wheels - exceptionally confusing! I'm looking at upgrading my stock wheels on my Giant TCR, for a budget of up to £500, but have absolutely no idea with so many options/recommendations. I think I want to go as aero as possible for crit racing (only 4th cat), but seem to be numerous options. Some of these I've come across are:

Club roost 50mm rims (carbon) https://www.buyabike.co.uk/club-roost-f ... carbon-9-1…

Pro lite bracciano a42 http://www.wiggle.co.uk/pro-lite-bracci ... lloy-clinc…/

Superstar components (38mm and by far the cheapest) http://www.superstarcomponents.com/…/elite-38-ultra-11speed…

Fulcrum racing quattro (bit more of a name) (http://www.wiggle.co.uk/fulcrum-racing- ... lg-alloy-c…/…)

Are there any others I should consider/ignore? Or do I look at handbuilt wheels (and if so, who?!)

Absolutely any help is appreciated. I'm aware going for 38mm-50mm rims won't make me 10mph quicker, so it's partly for my own vanity, but every little helps!

Edit: I would also love a set of tubeless, but can't see any that would fit the criteria, unless anyone knows of any?1

Hinaultscrapcousin

Those pro lites are nearly 2kg without skewers!!

I'd buy these:

http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/powertap-c10at/race-38

sloppyschleckonds

I'd probably go for some Farsports carbon 38mm x 23mm tubular, bitex hubs for around the £250, probably £50+ more for clincher/ tubeless. usually come in about 1200grams

ugo.santalucia

If you live in London, you should be ahead of the trend, rather than following it three years later...

What you want is so dated it's not even worth talking about it

LWLondon

ugo.santalucia wrote:

If you live in London, you should be ahead of the trend, rather than following it three years later...

What you want is so dated it's not even worth talking about it

Hahaha, that basically sums me up! I will happily admit i'm so far behind the times. All advice/help appreciated. Am I looking in completely the wrong place then?

LWLondon

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

I'd probably go for some Farsports carbon 38mm x 23mm tubular, bitex hubs for around the £250, probably £50+ more for clincher/ tubeless. usually come in about 1200grams

I assume you mean these http://www.farsports.cn/product/detail.php/id-201.html ?

Do you know if any UK Companies sell them? Always a bit wary ordering direct...

pan280

to scratch the vanity itch you need a bigger budget or find a good deal on a used set.

you don't need fancy wheels for racing.
have you done much racing yet?

Matthewfalle

I'd go for the wheels that dare not speak their name and some Conti Sprinters.

Comes massively within budget, ticks all the boxes, perfect for racing.

fenix

Don't race what you can't afford to replace....

fat daddy

don't buy upgrades ... cli-ohfcukit

LWLondon

pan280 wrote:

to scratch the vanity itch you need a bigger budget or find a good deal on a used set.

you don't need fancy wheels for racing.
have you done much racing yet?

Done a few crit races, got a road race this weekend then keep going with crit races I think over the season. I know I don't need new wheels, more of a "why not" moment. Re: the affordable point - I had assumed that having insurance that covers racing, i'd be ok with any crashes - am I mistaken?

Matthewfalle wrote:

I'd go for the wheels that dare not speak their name and some Conti Sprinters.

Comes massively within budget, ticks all the boxes, perfect for racing.

You've lost me Matthew....

pan280

Fenix wrote:

Don't race what you can't afford to replace....

at this point in time i'd be happy to trade some zipp nsws with some skin on my fingers and knees!

ugo.santalucia

LWLondon wrote:

I had assumed that having insurance that covers racing, i'd be ok with any crashes - am I mistaken?

Probably mistaken, what kind of insurance are we talking here, what are the terms?

kingpinsam

If you can wait 3-4 weeks for delivery, then these come it at around £350 after customs charges.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/U-Shape-25mm- ... 1263098694

They tick the vanity box and are fine for road races and less technical crits. Know a few people who race on these (or very similar from the same seller) been reliable enough, done around 3000 miles on mine now without issue.

trailflow

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

I'd probably go for some Farsports carbon 38mm x 23mm tubular, bitex hubs for around the £250, probably £50+ more for clincher/ tubeless. usually come in about 1200grams

More like £370 + £55 delivery + import duty

I have some Fulcrum Quattro LG's. They dont feel aero in the slightest. They ride like my Fulcrum 7 LG's do but stiffer. I also have some 50mm deep chinese carbon/alloy wheels which do feel faster, But they get blown around by the wind. For any real aero gains i would be looking at 50-60mm at a minimum.

The superstar wheels have pretty narrow rims btw. 14mm inner, 19mm outer. If your current set are wider. They may feel like a step backwards.

The Pro lite's = way too heavy

The Club Roost would be my choice out of the list above but they are still kinda narrow 21mm outer width. And are they proven not to melt ? Are they rebadged chinese junk in other words ? 100kg weight limit too.

imposter2.0

Fulcrum 3s or Ksyrium Elites - anything else is all just a bit pointless for chippers. May not tick all the 'vanity' boxes though.

JesseD

Fulcrum Racing Quattros are fine for crits, they aren't light but are pretty stiff.

Buy deep if you want to look good, apart from that the Racing 3's or the Elites will serve you well as they are lighter than the others and will accelerate faster, which is more important than aero in a crit.

Matthewfalle

LWLondon wrote:

pan280 wrote:

to scratch the vanity itch you need a bigger budget or find a good deal on a used set.

you don't need fancy wheels for racing.
have you done much racing yet?

Done a few crit races, got a road race this weekend then keep going with crit races I think over the season. I know I don't need new wheels, more of a "why not" moment. Re: the affordable point - I had assumed that having insurance that covers racing, i'd be ok with any crashes - am I mistaken?

Matthewfalle wrote:

I'd go for the wheels that dare not speak their name and some Conti Sprinters.

Comes massively within budget, ticks all the boxes, perfect for racing.

You've lost me Matthew....

Carbonzone off the 'Bay.

I use 60s front and back and they freakin' rock: light, roll really well, relatively cheap so when you smash them up it doesn't break the bank, stuff, bombproof. Constant deals on so call it a couple of hundred pounds all in. Make a brilliant shoooooom shooooom noise and look well phat.

£50 for two Continental Sprinters from CRC or Merlin, a fiver for tub tape, off you.

Carbonzone also do 30, 40mm job, but why go half way? Life is too short to be sensible.

Planet X own are also really good value for money: I've been running a set of their 50s for about 9 years and they have been perfect.

LWLondon

ugo.santalucia wrote:

LWLondon wrote:

I had assumed that having insurance that covers racing, i'd be ok with any crashes - am I mistaken?

Probably mistaken, what kind of insurance are we talking here, what are the terms?

It;s the wiggle cycle insurance. I've emailed them directly to confirm this, and they've confirmed that accidental damage to the bike and me are covered in amateur racing, as long as I don't earn over £5k per annum which would make it professional. Given it's 4th cat, i'm in no danger of that! Thanks for the heads up though, it was good to check

LWLondon

Matthewfalle wrote:

Carbonzone off the 'Bay.

I use 60s front and back and they freakin' rock: light, roll really well, relatively cheap so when you smash them up it doesn't break the bank, stuff, bombproof. Constant deals on so call it a couple of hundred pounds all in. Make a brilliant shoooooom shooooom noise and look well phat.

£50 for two Continental Sprinters from CRC or Merlin, a fiver for tub tape, off you.

Carbonzone also do 30, 40mm job, but why go half way? Life is too short to be sensible.

Planet X own are also really good value for money: I've been running a set of their 50s for about 9 years and they have been perfect.

Iiinteresting indeed, will have a look for them!!

JesseD wrote:

Fulcrum Racing Quattros are fine for crits, they aren't light but are pretty stiff.

Buy deep if you want to look good, apart from that the Racing 3's or the Elites will serve you well as they are lighter than the others and will accelerate faster, which is more important than aero in a crit.

Thsi is my problem, I see lots of these online as recommended, and at only £200 they're a decent price, are the wheels at £500 not worth the extra then?

I've been recommended a few places the Cero AR30 (new Evo model has wide rims) or the Hunt race aero, also with wide rims. Both are tubeless ready, which I understand is quicker, and both <£500. Another confusing addition. @Ugo, i've seen previously you criticise the Cero brand, is the Hunt brand similar (they are both similar price, similar weights, which I would assume would make them similar quality of parts...)

ugo.santalucia

LWLondon wrote:

@Ugo, i've seen previously you criticise the Cero brand, is the Hunt brand similar (they are both similar price, similar weights, which I would assume would make them similar quality of parts...)

Is there anything I haven't criticised?
Generally speaking I don't like stuff that has no supply chain... if I need a Mavic freehub, I know where to get one... if I need a freehub for a pair of Cero, I need to pray they are still in business by then/bother to reply to my begging email/have one ready available to shift

There seem to be too many IF for my likes

JesseD

LWLondon wrote:

JesseD wrote:

Fulcrum Racing Quattros are fine for crits, they aren't light but are pretty stiff.

Buy deep if you want to look good, apart from that the Racing 3's or the Elites will serve you well as they are lighter than the others and will accelerate faster, which is more important than aero in a crit.

Thsi is my problem, I see lots of these online as recommended, and at only £200 they're a decent price, are the wheels at £500 not worth the extra then?

I've been recommended a few places the Cero AR30 (new Evo model has wide rims) or the Hunt race aero, also with wide rims. Both are tubeless ready, which I understand is quicker, and both <£500. Another confusing addition. @Ugo, i've seen previously you criticise the Cero brand, is the Hunt brand similar (they are both similar price, similar weights, which I would assume would make them similar quality of parts...)

They may or may not be, my personal preference is that I would race the cheaper stuff in crits as there is a bigger chance of an off especially on more technical courses, its why I race an aluminium Felt Z75 with 105 and a pair of Fulcrums in crits/circuit races where there is a lot of argy bargy on tight circuits because if there is an off and I can’t avoid it I don’t want smash up my nice bike, I save the carbon Kuota with Di2 and £2000 DT Swiss carbon wheels for road races where there a bit more space and less chance of a smash and even that at my level is a bit overkill.

I am with Ugo though that whatever I buy I prefer to have backup, I almost bought some 40/60mm wheels from Far sports but in the end I decided that I prefer to have support when/if they go wrong.

RE HUNT wheels, my LBS stocks them and rate them!

Matthewfalle

JesseD wrote:

RE HUNT wheels, my LBS stocks them and rate them!

Well they would, wouldn't they?

They're not going to stock something then when you ask about them say"oh no mate, we've got loads in but I wouldn't touch them, they rubbish"

Bet they also say that they are better than wheel sinthe same price range you find online/at the lbs next door who say the same about Hunt wheels.

cycleclinic

The trick with racing is dont crash. Done loads of crits now and so far I have managed to doge all the crashes I hope the luck hold this year. I dont bother with race insurance. also sprinters are the last tyres I would use for a crit race. They are decent but there are quicker tyres which means you can spend less on the wheel and still end up with the same overall gain.

A 30mm deep alloy clincher (tubeless) is all you need really. Carbon wheel can be excellent but you are doubling your spend. For a tight course grippy tyres that will allow you to get ahead out of a bend are a real advantage.

cycleclinic

Why would a shop stock hunt wheels when you can buy them direct. that makes little business sense to me.

JesseD

thecycleclinic wrote:

Why would a shop stock hunt wheels when you can buy them direct. that makes little business sense to me.

Don't know, haven't questioned their business model, but I do live in the Channel Islands so speed of getting them and after sales service maybe an issue?

JesseD

Matthewfalle wrote:

JesseD wrote:

RE HUNT wheels, my LBS stocks them and rate them!

Well they would, wouldn't they?

They're not going to stock something then when you ask about them say"oh no mate, we've got loads in but I wouldn't touch them, they rubbish"

Bet they also say that they are better than wheel sinthe same price range you find online/at the lbs next door who say the same about Hunt wheels.

Funnily enough not, I generally get good advice from them as I know them on a personal level outside of the shop.

There are some shops who would say that mind you, but that's the trick, build a relationship with the guys a the shop and they will see you right, worked for me in the past.

Hinaultscrapcousin

thecycleclinic wrote:

Why would a shop stock hunt wheels when you can buy them direct. that makes little business sense to me.

Because some people like to be able to see the wheels themselves, maybe even test them before parting with cash? Maybe they use them on custom builds a lot so it makes sense to stock a few as well? Maybe they think they're very good and want to give their customers a great option of the usual stock wheels? Maybe they get them at trade price so sell them for the same as Hunt? Maybe Hunt recommend them in the area? I don't even run a business and I came up with those reasons in as long as it took me to type them.

you might as well say why does a shop stock anything because everything can be ordered online.

Hinaultscrapcousin

ugo.santalucia wrote:

LWLondon wrote:

@Ugo, i've seen previously you criticise the Cero brand, is the Hunt brand similar (they are both similar price, similar weights, which I would assume would make them similar quality of parts...)

Is there anything I haven't criticised?
Generally speaking I don't like stuff that has no supply chain... if I need a Mavic freehub, I know where to get one... if I need a freehub for a pair of Cero, I need to pray they are still in business by then/bother to reply to my begging email/have one ready available to shift

There seem to be too many IF for my likes

This. Get a good set of handbuilt wheels made with bits that are going to be available for the foreseeable future. Your choice or rims built with j-bends onto Hope hubs or similar will pretty much be serviceable for the rest of your life (or, at least, longer than anything else you're going to buy).

Alex99

thecycleclinic wrote:

The trick with racing is dont crash. Done loads of crits now and so far I have managed to doge all the crashes I hope the luck hold this year. I dont bother with race insurance. also sprinters are the last tyres I would use for a crit race. They are decent but there are quicker tyres which means you can spend less on the wheel and still end up with the same overall gain.

A 30mm deep alloy clincher (tubeless) is all you need really. Carbon wheel can be excellent but you are doubling your spend. For a tight course grippy tyres that will allow you to get ahead out of a bend are a real advantage.

There is a left turn on the Milton Keynes Bowl circuit (when they open the bottom loop) where I've seen several riders just slide off. They are sometimes riding like nutters, but grip is a factor.

I'm trying to think how additional grip translates in practice. I've read that confidence increases (and therefore cornering speed) up to the point of an insufficient friction induced crash, at which point confidence gets knocked down and the cycle starts again. I'm not sure this is correct for me. I don't seem to be on this cycle of repeatedly finding the limits of grip. Or, is there a more subtle signal that we pick up on, or some people pick up on? Can we actually tell when a tyre is 'nearly there'?

Matthewfalle

JesseD wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

JesseD wrote:

RE HUNT wheels, my LBS stocks them and rate them!

Well they would, wouldn't they?

They're not going to stock something then when you ask about them say"oh no mate, we've got loads in but I wouldn't touch them, they rubbish"

Bet they also say that they are better than wheel sinthe same price range you find online/at the lbs next door who say the same about Hunt wheels.

Funnily enough not, I generally get good advice from them as I know them on a personal level outside of the shop.

There are some shops who would say that mind you, but that's the trick, build a relationship with the guys a the shop and they will see you right, worked for me in the past.

As opposed to knowing them on an impersonal level?

Next time you see them ask them about stuff a rival shop is selling.