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Fulcrum Quattro LG- braking issue

Dan WaltonDan Walton Posts: 147
edited March 2017 in Workshop
Good morning!

So, I purchased a set of Quattro LG's to go on my Propel for winter use and save the deeper wheels it came with for best, I think this was around October time. First ride out I noticed that the front was quite juddery under braking but thought it might improve with a bit of use. A few hundred road miles later and it hasn't.

I sent a message to the retailer online about the issue and they said to pop in to one of their branches for someone to take a look at it, so I did this last night.

At first the mechanic blamed my brakes, saying that it was probably a characteristic of the mini-V brakes, then he said it was probably an issue with the compound of the pads I am running. I have no idea what the pads in the standard TRP mini-V's are like and he had no idea whether I should be going harder or softer to cure this judder, but he did contradict himself a few times and then professed to not really knowing what to do.

He did try to justify his theory by pointing to the marks on the rear rim and saying that they where discoloured due to heat build up from braking, like when a cars discs glow bright red! I know I'm not the lightest, but I doubt I would be making a rim glow bright red under braking, even if that was possible... which I'm pretty sure it isn't. The discolouration was dirt, I hadn't cleaned the bike since Sundays clubrun and the previous nights velodrome outing.

The way it was left (due to me no really feeling up to having a debate in the middle of the shop) was that I need to get in touch with Fulcrum myself directly and see what they have to say and if there are compatibility issues with my bike or they can advise which specific pads you have to use in these clearly very precise, highly strung, cheap, mass produced wheels to make them brake correctly...

Does anyone have any advice on how to proceed? I don't think it's a pad issue. I certainly don't have an issue with my other wheels which I can do stoppies with should I choose to, it also wasn't an issue with my friends Fulcrum Racing 3's that I borrowed for a bit. And just to clarify, all the wheels I use and have access to have aluminium braking tracks, so no carbon specific pad confusion.

I think I have two questions, is it my place to have to speak to Fulcrum directly? And secondly, is this just another case of a Fulrcrum Quattro LG with a dodgy braking surface and how do I convince the shop that that is the case!?

Posts

  • BobbinogsBobbinogs Posts: 4,841
    Juddering, IME, is usually down to a wheel not being true or some defect on the rim. Hence, I would adjust the calipers such that on one side the wheel only just clears the rim...and then spin the wheel whilst keeping an eye on the rim/brake clearance. If no issues, repeat on the other side.

    Assuming all is fine, I would reset the brakes and check the wheel for play in the bearings/pre-load (simply push the wheel at the rim to one side then the other and see how easy it moves, anything "wobbly" is definitely not right but easily fixed).

    Then I would carefully check the brake pads/rims and clean them. Ensure the pads are nice and snug in the blocks with no movement. I would also have a good look at the calipers and check that the central bolt is nice and tight (don't go mad) and the brakes adjusted such that the pressure on both the rims is applied at roughly the same time.

    The other thing to check is the headset. Apply the front brake and try rocking the bike forward. A loose headset will have the bike wobbling to/fro under braking and is often overlooked. There can be a few causes, not least the simple mistake of not having enough spacers under the top cap.

    Do all that, then report back :-)
  • trek_dantrek_dan Posts: 1,366
    I had Quattro LG's on my hire bike in Mallorca earlier in the year and the juddering was dreadful. There is a thread about it and others having similar experiences in 'road buying advice' - seems to be a bad batch of rims, not that the manufacturer will admit it.
  • Bobbinogs wrote:
    Juddering, IME, is usually down to a wheel not being true or some defect on the rim. Hence, I would adjust the calipers such that on one side the wheel only just clears the rim...and then spin the wheel whilst keeping an eye on the rim/brake clearance. If no issues, repeat on the other side.

    Assuming all is fine, I would reset the brakes and check the wheel for play in the bearings/pre-load (simply push the wheel at the rim to one side then the other and see how easy it moves, anything "wobbly" is definitely not right but easily fixed).

    Then I would carefully check the brake pads/rims and clean them. Ensure the pads are nice and snug in the blocks with no movement. I would also have a good look at the calipers and check that the central bolt is nice and tight (don't go mad) and the brakes adjusted such that the pressure on both the rims is applied at roughly the same time.

    The other thing to check is the headset. Apply the front brake and try rocking the bike forward. A loose headset will have the bike wobbling to/fro under braking and is often overlooked. There can be a few causes, not least the simple mistake of not having enough spacers under the top cap.

    Do all that, then report back :-)

    I appreciate what you are saying with regards to checking the brakes over, but I don't see how my bike can be fine with two other different front wheels but not these and it still be a fault with my bike? I dropped the headset out the other week to freshen up the grease and re-adjusted, all fine. I literally put my Giant rim back on yesterday evening before taking it to the shop and I could brake hard enough with that to lift the back wheel off the floor with no juddering or clonking or anything.

    I will have a nose about with the front wheel as you've advised though. I might also try and put it in a friends TCR with regular brakes and see how it is.
    trek_dan wrote:
    I had Quattro LG's on my hire bike in Mallorca earlier in the year and the juddering was dreadful. There is a thread about it and others having similar experiences in 'road buying advice' - seems to be a bad batch of rims, not that the manufacturer will admit it.

    I've seen reference to the thread in another thread but don't think I found the original thread... if that makes sense.

    Basically, I'm pretty certain it's the wheel at fault. I think if I can try it in my friends bike and it plays up, then I'll fire off a response to the original customer services email and try to escalate it. I don't think it's really down to me to get in touch with Fulcrum directly?
  • Dan WaltonDan Walton Posts: 147
    Bit of an update, tried them in a friends bike, they still juddered.

    I responded to the customer services email asking me to take it to the store for checking and brought them up to speed with what happened in store and what happened with my friends bike. They've now responded saying they would normally advise taking it into a store for inspection, but as I've had a bad experience previously, take it to another store even further way... FFS!

    I'm not interested in driving around the south of England arguing with different workshop technicians, I just want to be able to apply the brakes without my forks flapping about all over the place!

    Does anyone know what I'm allowed to do in this situation? Can I ask to take them back and say they aren't fit for purpose and exchange or refund them?
  • VslowpaceVslowpace Posts: 189
    How long have you had them, you say you think October but do you still have the receipt.

    Reason I ask is that less than 6 months you have the right to get a replacement or repair of the item but after that the onus falls on you to prove they were faulty at purchase, although if you have kept a log and record of your dealings with the manufacturer/seller this shouldn't be too hard.

    The Which site details outs the key points on the consumer Rights act quite succinctly.

    http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/ ... ty-product
  • Dan WaltonDan Walton Posts: 147
    Vslowpace wrote:
    How long have you had them, you say you think October but do you still have the receipt.

    Reason I ask is that less than 6 months you have the right to get a replacement or repair of the item but after that the onus falls on you to prove they were faulty at purchase, although if you have kept a log and record of your dealings with the manufacturer/seller this shouldn't be too hard.

    The Which site details outs the key points on the consumer Rights act quite succinctly.

    http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/ ... ty-product

    I'm not sure I have a printed till receipt as I bought them on a click and collect service. I checked this morning and it was an October date that I ordered, will look later for an actual receipt!
  • BobbinogsBobbinogs Posts: 4,841
    Bear in mind that you don't need a receipt as such, more a case of "Proof of purchase", which can be credit card statement, customer order email or the like.
  • Dan WaltonDan Walton Posts: 147
    Bobbinogs wrote:
    Bear in mind that you don't need a receipt as such, more a case of "Proof of purchase", which can be credit card statement, customer order email or the like.

    Yeah, had a look online this morning at my order history, some time in October.
  • JesseDJesseD Posts: 1,961
    I have the same issue with mine, sent them back once and had them replaced (Wiggle), the next pair were better but all the decals were pealing off so I sent them back only to be told they were out of stock and I would have to wait for a new pair or have a refund.

    I got the refund and bought a pair from Ribble, the juddering was there again but I needed the wheels for an event I was doing, then didn't bother sending them back and just kept riding and got used it them juddering as they still braked OK. Funnily enough I had to send the rear back as the bearing were totally shot within 8 months, Ribble sent the wheel back to their supplier for a warranty inspection which took over a month and I have just had it back but not ridden it yet.

    I used to have a set of Racing 1's when they first came out, spokes kept snapping in the rear wheel and they were impossible to get from anywhere and when you did they were around £20 a pop, I have not had great experiences with Fulcrum so my conclusion is that Fulcrums are not particularly well made, don't think I will be buying another pair any time soon.

    My Shimano RS-11's on the other hand are brilliant, service the hubs every now and again and they run and run :)
    Obsessed is a word used by the lazy to describe the dedicated!
  • Dan WaltonDan Walton Posts: 147
    JesseD wrote:
    I have the same issue with mine, sent them back once and had them replaced (Wiggle), the next pair were better but all the decals were pealing off so I sent them back only to be told they were out of stock and I would have to wait for a new pair or have a refund.

    I got the refund and bought a pair from Ribble, the juddering was there again but I needed the wheels for an event I was doing, then didn't bother sending them back and just kept riding and got used it them juddering as they still braked OK. Funnily enough I had to send the rear back as the bearing were totally shot within 8 months, Ribble sent the wheel back to their supplier for a warranty inspection which took over a month and I have just had it back but not ridden it yet.

    I used to have a set of Racing 1's when they first came out, spokes kept snapping in the rear wheel and they were impossible to get from anywhere and when you did they were around £20 a pop, I have not had great experiences with Fulcrum so my conclusion is that Fulcrums are not particularly well made, don't think I will be buying another pair any time soon.

    My Shimano RS-11's on the other hand are brilliant, service the hubs every now and again and they run and run :)


    I have an RS11 for use on the turbo, went for the Fulcrums as the little bit of extra depth looked better on my Propel.

    I think I'm going to send another email saying I've satisfied myself beyond reasonable doubt that it's the wheels, their workshop technician/mechanic/whatever had the opportunity to look at them properly and prove me wrong but didn't bother, much the same as I can't be bothered to drive around all over the place to their other branches in the hope that someone else is a little more interested, so I think I'd like a refund.
  • MrSwearyMrSweary Posts: 1,699
    Funnily I had the same issue on a pair I bought early last year. As it happened they were pringled when I was run over in July so I never got around to following it up properly. As I recall they were actually getting a bit better with wear but I didn't get a chance to see if that trend would continue!
    Kinesis Racelite 4s disc
    Kona Paddy Wagon
    Canyon Roadlite Al 7.0 - reborn as single speed!
    Felt Z85 - mangled by taxi.
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