Can I go tubeless?

Puddock

I have recently purchased a Voodoo Bizango 29er. I would like to run tubeless tyres. Are the standard tyres that come with the bike tubeless compatable. Also are the rims tubeless ready?

This is all a bit new to me, I was used to 26 inch wheels and inner tubes...

cooldad

No idea what the rims or tyres are, but most tyres are fine. You will 99% sure need tubeless kit - rim tape, sealant and valves.

Danieljephcott

Yep you will be fine. You will have maxxis ardents tubeless ready tyres. All you need is some tubeless valves, tubeless sealant and some tape for the rims.

What works well on my hoodoo which is basically the same bike was gorilla tape, can't remember the size but get the one that's the same width as the rim. Joes sealant and just some tubeless valves.

You'll need a track pump as well.

Tape your wheels and then cut a tiny little hole in the tape where the valve goes. Fit a inner tube and then pump it up to around 60 psi and leave it for 10 mins or so. Let air out of the tube and undo just one side of the tyre. Take tube out and insert the tubeless valves (make sure the valves are pushed in really well). Then fit that side of the tyre again but leave a little bit undone. Add a cap full or 1.1/2 caps of joes sealant and then fot that last bit of tyre. Using a track pump basically just go mad and keep pumping the tyre up untill you hear the bead pop. One side is already done so it should be fairly easy. Once it's popped undo pump and hold the wheel and spin it. After 1 min leave it lying flat on one side and then turn it over after 5 mins.

Hopefully you should have no air escaping. Fit wheel back on bike and check it 24 hours later. You should be ok.

First wheel took me ages as I wasn't doing the above, second wheel took me 10 mins max.

compuwiz_uk

the stock tyres are indeed ardents BUT they are lighter / less stiff sidewalled units compared with standard ardents you buy off the shelf so you may find they are more pourous and need a fair bit of pumping up & swirling round of the sealant to get em fully sealed up inside.

that being said a chap did ask the same question a while ago ( couple of months or so back ) & came back shortly after to state he had got 1 of his wheels tubeless but had not done the other yet & has since not been back to report.

i too will be attempting tubeless on my 2014 model bizango at some point, got the gear now ( valves/goo & various widths of tape - not just doing 1 bike, gunna try & do all of my bikes ( road/cx & mtb ) just need to work my way to being arsed enough to do it now - so could be a while as the tubes are working well in em all

compuwiz_uk

mmm, not as long as i imagined before i started as just done 1 but wish i aint bothered at the minute lol


i can confirm that they do go tubeless ( ghetto style with gorilla tape instead of pukka rim tape ) but my god is it a faff getting it inflated again.

even the above refit tube & only undo 1 side failed for me with more air coming out still than the joe blow max was able to provide with me almost giving myself a heartattack pumping so furiously.

gave up & got out the big gun ( 8 bar air compressor ) few shots with that got it inflating but still took a while before it popped onto the rim properly ( maybe as i was being too timid with the air gun trigger - no idea what pressure i had put in as the gauge only seemed to work when adding air & not after so i was getting the compressors pressure only - probably down to the adapter in use to add said air to the presta valve - 1st time i have used it, never thought i would either )

still with air in it started bubbling & foaming nicely at the bead alot more than i expected & not at all on the pourous tyre sidewalls like i had expected.

compuwiz_uk

dang, may have spoken too soon, just looked round at the completed wheel before i make a start on the one thats left & its bubbling/foaming/weeping out of the spoke holes all round now so looks like the rim sealing kinda failed, will have to try again with a smidge wider tape me thinks as there must be a gap or 2 still

compuwiz_uk

mmmmm.

appears this spoke hole bubbling may have been caused by the tube.

its basically massively stretched the tape on all the spoke holes & thus they leaked nicely.

try again without the tube this time i think, if not the tube goes back in till i can be arsed trying again


--


further investigation shows it was indeed the tube that caused it as the tape was still very much stuck inplace on all but the spoke hole sections ( especially where it was doubled up, there were just rings of ooze between the tape layers at the spoke hole stretch points )

so word of caution when going ghetto instead of pukka tubeless tape, avoid using a tube if you can & if not maybe bang the old rim tape in above the new tape as an extra layer to prevent damage to the new tape at the spoke hole sections.


probably more donts to come lol

compuwiz_uk

round 2 with rear wheel this time while front rim dries off & erm, failed again.

wider tape used this time & no tube to damage the tape & all was going well till the rim opened up a tiny bit right at the edge under the tyre bead mid swirl.

impressive distance travelled by the sealant but alas no sealing got done as too much of a gusher ( gunna be peeling it off me for hours i think not to mention the furniture )

so i'm chucking in the towel for today & banging the tubes back in ( hopefully i can get most of the remaining sealant back in the bottle for round 3 at a later date, it wont beat me completely

----

update - 3/4 of the sealant, gone ( most of it over me & the furniture while trying to seal the rear wheel ) there was a few dribbles left in there & loads of foam though, luckily the front wheel offered up much more ooze to salvage, then sadly i managed to spill lots of it while attempting to get it back in the bottle - must remember to invest in a syringe of something for the next attempt

here is what caused issues on the rear wheel for you to watch out for.

cooldad

I wouldn't ride that rim.

compuwiz_uk

made out of cheese these rims must be, its only got about 600 miles on it, pretty much all commuting road miles too till i got a cheap ass road bike for that job, i then got a full sus 27.5 for the offroad journeys so its not had a hard life at all.

its back together for now with a tube as i have nowhere else to store it other than hooked on the wall complete but its not going to be used till sorted ( or replaced with another bike - not decided yet as its really annoyed me today so may not live to ride another day. )

exterior pics of both sides





just looked at the front rim & that too does not look too cracking at the join, its not split but the 2 sections dont seem to match up perfectly as you can feel a ridge where they meet ( its as if running ur finger over a sticker etc ) so defo give the rims a good once over before you even bother opening the sealant if you have a bizango ( mines an early 2014 bike - around february 2014 ) - i was lucky & only wasted £3.99 on the sealant - the valves wont go to waste, there is another 5 bikes to have a go at ( ok well 3 as o dont wanna mess with the fatty as them tyres are a biatch with a tube so god help me if i tried tubeless & the other is said cheap ass road bike that currently resides on a turbo trainer so erm, pointless on that.

Puddock

Thanks everyone for the replies, very interesting and helpful. I am now thinking that maybe i should stick to tubes ;-)

Danieljephcott

Puddock wrote:

Thanks everyone for the replies, very interesting and helpful. I am now thinking that maybe i should stick to tubes ;-)

ive got to say the chap above has really had a hard time out of it, apart from the fact that I was following the wrong process doing my first wheel I think I could have had both done and dusted within 30 mins.

I think its fairly easy

compuwiz_uk

dont give up on tubeless.

i have not like i briefly mention in my last post ( well probably on the bizango unless i find a good cheap matching rear wheel or full wheel set to replace el-gappo and then i shall give it a whirl again )

like i say, i have other bikes & they ( well most of em ) will be going tubeless ( hopefully lol ) when i next find the time & patience to have another bash, already have the bits for the job & given the wheels on the other bikes a looksy & the seams on them look & feel much better externally than on my bizango & as previously mentioned, my bizango is an early doors previous model bike so later runs & the newer bike should be much better products as they will have probably worked out the kinks & the wheels should be much better rims as tubeless has become ever more popular since my bike was made .

dont let my post(s) put you off, only posted em so you & anybody else viewing could see possible problem areas & check yours better before you commit to the full mod.

ps, if you have not already got the bits, then planetx are currently knocking out the valves @ £3 each & sealant enough for 2 wheels @ £3-£4 OK postage of about £4 to go ontop but still works out cheaper than most ebay sellers offering the same gear but for me when buying in bulk for 3-4 bikes + a couple of spare tubs of sealant it meant the £4 postage charge was not much of a problem.

Ross Gardner

Your images don't work for me.

Was thinking about going tubeless... but you make it seem such a hassle, that maybe a complete biking mechanic beginner could ask someone else to do it.

"Can't someone else do it?" - Homer Simpson, sanitation commissioner.

compuwiz_uk

image links

https://postimg.cc/image/p2sutus09/

https://postimg.cc/image/cgsynd1k9/

https://postimg.cc/image/g1ou6l63t/


basically they just show what looks to be a fairly nasty looking split in the rim at the seam from inside/tyre removed, same gash from the outside with tyre & tube refitted & other side of the rim without a gash so ur probably not missing much lol


if your lucky its not that much more of a faff than changing a normal tyre & tube after a puncture etc, just a couple of extra steps is all ( it is handy if you have access to a compressor incase ur track pump aint meaty enough though )

as the other chap said though, 1st wheel is a learning curve and takes what seems like an age, 2nd is much easier ( well doing the work is anyway ) unless you have luck like mine & then ur dooooooom'd no matter who tries to tubeless convert the wheels

as i say, dont let my posts put you off, i have really bad luck near constantly at the minute so its pretty much a given you will have much better luck than me

Ross Gardner

No the images still aren't displaying. I am looking on my tablet, so that might be the issue. Weird, though.

compuwiz_uk

could be the reason, could also be the image hosting site used not being liked either, had to move to postimage to host any pics for here as i can no longer access pixhoster at all to upload or view any of my previous uploads, but its still showing as online when checked with other sites to check if its broken. ( told you i have lots of bad luck did i not lol )

as mentioned though, ur not missing much, the description of the pics above pretty much covers it.

compuwiz_uk

not given up on the bizango yet ( OK wont be riding it like this but want to turn this thread back into a positive one )

was filling a couple of holes in the wall left by a removed shelf & had some epoxy putty left over, so chucked caution to the wind & shoved it in the gap in the rim that the air & sealant combo could not fill

leaving it to cure for a day or 2 before i sand down the rim bead edge & then i shall give it another whirl at going tubeless with the remaining 1/4 bottle of sealant ( as i said earlier, more to show its doable & hopefully counter my above doom & gloom posts than to use it like that, got other bikes to use instead till i replace the broken & now bodged rim )

compuwiz_uk

OK, progress report.

been out & bought some pukka gorilla tape ( handy pack 25mm width ) seems like i had been done with the last stuff i bought from ebay & it was boggo stuff they sent & thus crap

the putty in the rim has set & been sanded smooth on the inner bead area, tape applied & tyre added as well as the remains of the sealant bunged in.

a quick roll of the wheel on the floor to settle the bead in the rim & a squirt of air from the compressor & it went up OK, swirlied & bead sealed nicely, bodge holds pressure ( been upto 45psi so far )

now left to bubble & seal ( hopefully ) from the valve & a couple of spokes but not 100% if this is just remains of the last attempt or some more of the new stuff, but its only a couple of locations so fingers crossed.

compuwiz_uk

so much for crossed fingers, just got in & checked on the rim & flat as a pancake

added more wind & it began bubbling once again from the spoke holes

took the rim into the bathroom, stuck the shower on cold & cleaned off the foamy gunk that was all over the rim & tyre & so far it looks like the cold water MAY have helped the sealant seal instead of just bubble up & make a mess ( well at least on some of the spokes anyway, tis still bubbling at the valve & a spoke so far but nowhere near as much as it was & thats with the pressure inside @ around 60psi - rim bodge still holding ) will update more when its been left some more.

compuwiz_uk

OK, flat as a pancake again, little/no bubbling up so assume sealant is pretty much used up now.

add more air & it still leaks like a goodun ( slow but noticable ) from the the sides of the valve so either i have screwed up the rim sealing ( likely ) or there is a problem with the valves i am using ( seen online that some valves come with rubber gromets/'o' rings whereas mine dont have that but look like they the lockring part was designed to accomadate one ) so gunna have a nosey round see if i can pick up a handful of 'o' rings of a suitable size & try again at some point.

but for now, tis going back to tubed again till i have more parts to try.

The Rookie

Almost certainly leaking past the rim tape into the rim and then it will come at the point of least resistance which is the valve.

JBA

Try these along with specialised tubeless valves.

I have done 2 of my bikes with these and had no problems at all.

compuwiz_uk

nope, must have been bubbling out the remains of the sealant from attempt 1



still loads in there ( well there was anywhoo )

rim sealing looked OK too as far as i could see.



BUT the valve could have been the problem, a good push from the top & the locking ring could be done up alot more & then the valve felt much more secure in the rim itself so i could have screwed up on fitting the valve me thinks - it felt tight when fitted but must have loosened off when the air pressure went up causing the weak link/issue.

but having tightened up said valve with the tyre off & refit the tyre once again i was then unable to get the tyre to pop on the bead even after 20 minutes with the compressor going & me massaging the tyre in various ways & rolling it round & such so called it quits, it beat me this week - will try again when my luck improves in general or i next change the tyres lol


have bookmarked said link too just incase & will give it a whirl if i have no luck when i next try again ( probably on another bike though lol - see if i have more luck on xm319 rims or maybe be adventurous & try & do the generic boardman aero rims on the road bike )

compuwiz_uk

VICTORY IS MINE



well sort of lol

redone the sealing on the front rim with proper gorilla stuff & its up & holding air ( well its ridden round the street out front & up nd down the kerbs testing - very adventurous given the nature of the bodge on the rear rim lol )

changed out the 2.4 rear ardent for the stock 2.25 & it still failed to seal so reverted to the previously mentioned tube 1st method & rammed 65psi in the tube for 20 minutes each & then with as much force & care together managed to tightly fit the tubeless valve without breaking the bead for the 2nd side ( it was tough & needed the rim supporting on a chair to allow me to add pressure to the valve ( a pair of small pliers also helped get a few extra turns on the locking ring too )

so double tubeless & the rear wheel sealed up fine, front has begun bubbling & brewing like the rear wheel did from the odd spoke hole & such so its off in the shower if it carries on to help it seal like got done on the rear wheel.


now the only thing left is to do it all over again on another rear wheel when i can be arsed buying one, 1st things 1st though, CX / road & full sus to go tubeless before i mess again with the bizzy


so my advice is dont give in, OK admit defeat as a rouse & trick the little blighter by catching it by suprise & it works lol

GAZAMAN77

Hi guys,
Sorry if this has been asked elswhere but is there a way of knowing if your rims/tyres can go tubeless?
I am running on stock rims from my 2010 giant and continental Barons and thinking of going tubeless to avoid pinch flats.
Cheers
Gaz

cooldad

Pretty much anything can be convrted with the right rim tape, valves and sealant.

Easiest thing is buy a Stans kit.

compuwiz_uk

as above, rims just take the right kit & proper fitting ( thats what has been my downfall as i have not been sealing the rims right i recon, needed more rounds of gorilla tape to make em less leaky - or change it out for proper sealing tape. )

tyres though are try & see if they are not labelled with one of the many names for tubeless ready - most of the time they will be fine though.

victorwilliams

compuwiz_uk wrote:

that being said a chap did ask the same question a while ago ( couple of months or so back ) & came back shortly after to state he had got 1 of his wheels tubeless but had not done the other yet & has since not been back to report.

Just updated my post, all good both types riding and holding air really well

compuwiz_uk

good to hear, not read your update yet ( will be doing after posting this ) but i bet you had less troubles than me lol


turns out, 99% of my problems were my efforts at sealing the rim ( barring the crack at the join in the rim ), it looked OK BUT a single wrap of gorilla tape with overlap at the valve hole is not ideal, best going MORE wraps to stop the bubbling & air loss.