Caliper Upgrade??

PBNinja

I have a Cannondale Synapse Sora, the only area I feel is lacking is the brakes. Will a Shimano 105 brake caliper set work with the Sora brake levers?

Thanks in advance!

markhewitt1978

What calipers do you have now?

PBNinja

Whatever comes stock on a Cannondale Synapse!

I think they're tektro or something?

PBNinja

Just checked, Tektro Dual pivot, Long reach.

marcusjb

Try a pad upgrade first (much cheaper!). A good pad like a Swissstop Blue will make more difference than most caliper changes. Also check you cable (inner and outer). But pads first.

If still no go, then the long drop Shimano 650s are very good indeed.

Matthewfalle

Not sure offhand what brifters you have but have a quick check re pull ratios with regard to any caliper changes.

ugo.santalucia

marcusjb wrote:

Try a pad upgrade first (much cheaper!). A good pad like a Swissstop Blue will make more difference than most caliper changes. Also check you cable (inner and outer). But pads first.

If still no go, then the long drop Shimano 650s are very good indeed.

I suspect pads like those you suggest are not far off in price a pair of calipers... the Tekro long drop are very very average

marcusjb

This will sound sacrilegious, but provided the technology is the same (i.e. both are a plain old dual caliper brake), there's little real world differences between cheap and expensive caliper brakes in terms of the core components (the cast arms etc.). You tend to get a better finish and better parts like the cable tension adjuster, quick release etc. on higher end calipers. But you don't get much more stopping in my experiences.

Pads and cables do make a difference, more than the actual caliper in my experiences.

Even an expensive caliper such as the 650 I mention will benefit from a good pad like the Swissstop. Yes, they are expensive, but they work well, are kind to rims and last well (I probably change things too early as I am cautious like that, but my last pair of Swissstop Greens got 14385km on the front and are currently on 16227km on the rear (plenty of life left in them yet) with year around riding).

Lookyhere

disagree with that with regard to the latest shimano brakes.

i ve just fitted some silver 5800 calipers to tiagra 4600 shifters, fantastic improvement over Tiagra calipers - Merlin cycles - 40 notes so about 2x the price of those swisstops, dont waste your money on pads.
we tried all the different pad types for my daughters bike and the 5800 are far and away the best yet, there is no comparision with her old brakes.

Sora st3500 are compatible with 5800, so long as reach is ok.

menthel

Problem is that long drops just aren't as good as normal caliper brakes. I upgraded from crappy ones to better ones and although there was a slight difference, it wasn't really that great. Pads will make a better difference (I tend to go swisstop) but for bikes of the style that need long drop brakes I would much rather have discs! I don't feel the same about normal drops- ultegra normal drop brakes are great. Perhaps have a measure and see if you can get away with normal calipers...

ugo.santalucia

marcusjb wrote:

This will sound sacrilegious, but provided the technology is the same (i.e. both are a plain old dual caliper brake), there's little real world differences between cheap and expensive caliper brakes in terms of the core components (the cast arms etc.).

I agree, but is the technology the same? I have a pair of tekro, but never seen the Shimano 650 ones. The Tekro appear to be similar to the older Shimano I had (5600) in construction, although much less effective in view of the arm length

paulbnix

I recently replaced my long drop Tektro R730 with Shimano R650 calipers.
I used the same Swissstop / Koolstop pads on both and there is a marked improvement in braking performance.

lesfirth

marcusjb wrote:

This will sound sacrilegious, but provided the technology is the same (i.e. both are a plain old dual caliper brake), there's little real world differences between cheap and expensive caliper brakes in terms of the core components (the cast arms etc.). You tend to get a better finish and better parts like the cable tension adjuster, quick release etc. on higher end calipers. But you don't get much more stopping in my experiences.

Pads and cables do make a difference, more than the actual caliper in my experiences.
).

You are not on your own,I share this view. We have this subject repeatedly. Anyone with a little engineering knowledge will agree with us. It is simple mechanics. However we are vastly outnumbered those who blindly believe that if it costs more it has to be better.

paulbnix

I can't agree that there is no difference.

Last year I raised a post (viewtopic.php?f=40013&t=13000042) wondering why the short drop Sram brakes on one of my bikes were so much better than the long drop Tektro brakes on the other. This is using the same blocks and wheels.

I did nothing at the time but this year after a couple of dodgy wet downhill attempts at stopping I bought the long drop Shimano R650 calipers. They are definitely better - not as good as the short drop Srams though.

I wonder if any differences in construction or materials are amplified in the long drop versions.

Again I must emphasise that I have been using the same blocks (Swisstop or Koolstop) and the same wheels.

kajjal

paulbnix wrote:

I recently replaced my long drop Tektro R730 with Shimano R650 calipers.
I used the same Swissstop / Koolstop pads on both and there is a marked improvement in braking performance.

Did the same on my wifes bike and it made a big difference. The cheap tektro's have poor pads and the calipers are not as effective compared to r650's.

svetty

In my experience using standard drop calipers with offset pad holders gives better results than long drop calipers.

The 9000/6800/5800 series are an improvement on older generation shimano brakes

http://www.bdopcycling.com/BDop%20Offset%20Holders.asp

paulbnix

I did not know the bdop holders existed but at £46 including postage I think the £59 Shimano R650 calipers are a better buy.

peterbob

I agree that different brake pads make the greatest difference.

markhewitt1978

I swapped out some Tektro calipers - which had swisstops on them, for some 105 calipers and it was a vast improvement. I also swapped the 105 for Ultegra, no difference there.

PBNinja

As an update, i had a look at the brakes over the weekend. They weren't what you'd call centred in their alignment if that's understandable. I adjust them so that the gap between the pads and the wheel were even on either side front and back and it has made a noticeable improvement. I'm a lot happier now and feel that new brake pads will make closer to where I feel they should be.

thanks everyone for your help

Alex99

PBNinja wrote:

As an update, i had a look at the brakes over the weekend. They weren't what you'd call centred in their alignment if that's understandable. I adjust them so that the gap between the pads and the wheel were even on either side front and back and it has made a noticeable improvement. I'm a lot happier now and feel that new brake pads will make closer to where I feel they should be.

thanks everyone for your help

I have the Shimano 650 calipers and they are decent. However, the stock pads seemed very hard. I changed to Koolstop salmon and am pretty happy with those. They don't seem to get as much embedded grit and alloy in the wet, and work very nicely in dry too. These pads aren't cheap, but I think they are worth it.