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Rugby World Cup 2015

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  • foreheadforehead Posts: 180
    I had serious reservations about England beating Australia whatever stage they played them in (I think they will win the thing) and really didn't think we were in with a serious chance of winning the tournament unless they "played themselves into it" which ain't gonna happen now.

    I think that Lancaster's choices of players have certainly been hampered by injury but also by an RFU persuading him not to pick certain players. The obvious weaknesses at the set piece would have been seriously improved by the presence of Hartley. Our centres would have a lot more go forward with Tuilagi and, as far as only picking players who ply their trade over seas "in exceptional circumstances" goes I struggle to think of anything more "exceptional" than twice European player of the year and a Home World Cup. All of which smacks of cutting off ones nose to spite ones face.

    If Vunipola is to be believed, all would not seem to be well in the camp anyway and that doesn't surprise me.

    Not having been of the opinion that we could win the tournament, I'm not that disappointed that England are out from a supporters point of view but I think that the game in this country has missed a huge opportunity for it's overall betterment with such an early exit.

    For the record, if Wales get knocked out, I won't be flooding social media with schadenfreude, sarcasm or reinforcement of inaccurate national stereotypes - partly because I'd like to see the NH do as well as possible but mainly because I'm an adult.

    This. Thanks for saving me from taking some of the bait.

    Excellent post.
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  • Also, the FTSE is up 2.14% today. Which means the Telegraph piece about losing billions if England went out was, well, bowlers.
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  • orraloonorraloon Posts: 11,207
    Hopefully the Trolls have gone now and we can talk sensibly again.

    Unintentional trolling on my part, if indeed I am one of the targets. You may deduce, correctly, that I am not a supporter of England. However, what narked me on Saturday, during what I enjoyed as an intriguing match, and one in which for a short spell in the 2nd half it looked like England might be able to claw back onto level terms, was the behaviour of an admittedly small element of the crowd, whistling the kicker and especially walking out before the end.

    Maybe I'm getting old but I come from a position of you show respect to the other side, you don't try to put off your opponents' kicker, you applaud good play and skill on either side, and you support your side even if they are losing.

    Soccer-ball crowd behaviours creeping in? Often see MoTD shots of people leaving early if their team is losing. What's that about? Only want to see a win? Not interested in skill and expertise if it comes from the wrong colour strip?

    Nothing in this to do with England's performances. Perhaps is inevitable consequence of IRB / RFU's desire to broaden the market, attract in more people to the game. Or maybe I am becoming an old fogey. Where's my blazer?
  • ChoggerChogger Posts: 62
    Hopefully the Trolls have gone now and we can talk sensibly again.

    Unintentional trolling on my part, if indeed I am one of the targets. You may deduce, correctly, that I am not a supporter of England. However, what narked me on Saturday, during what I enjoyed as an intriguing match, and one in which for a short spell in the 2nd half it looked like England might be able to claw back onto level terms, was the behaviour of an admittedly small element of the crowd, whistling the kicker and especially walking out before the end.

    Maybe I'm getting old but I come from a position of you show respect to the other side, you don't try to put off your opponents' kicker, you applaud good play and skill on either side, and you support your side even if they are losing.

    Soccer-ball crowd behaviours creeping in? Often see MoTD shots of people leaving early if their team is losing. What's that about? Only want to see a win? Not interested in skill and expertise if it comes from the wrong colour strip?

    Nothing in this to do with England's performances. Perhaps is inevitable consequence of IRB / RFU's desire to broaden the market, attract in more people to the game. Or maybe I am becoming an old fogey. Where's my blazer?
    I agree the crowd should keep quite during all kicks but unfortunately it seems to be creeping more and more into the game to be fair it's the first time I've ever heard it Twickenham (it does seem to happen at other international grounds more regularly though) but it does seem to be happening more and needs to be cut out
  • laurentianlaurentian Posts: 2,181
    Hopefully the Trolls have gone now and we can talk sensibly again.

    Unintentional trolling on my part, if indeed I am one of the targets. You may deduce, correctly, that I am not a supporter of England. However, what narked me on Saturday, during what I enjoyed as an intriguing match, and one in which for a short spell in the 2nd half it looked like England might be able to claw back onto level terms, was the behaviour of an admittedly small element of the crowd, whistling the kicker and especially walking out before the end.

    Maybe I'm getting old but I come from a position of you show respect to the other side, you don't try to put off your opponents' kicker, you applaud good play and skill on either side, and you support your side even if they are losing.

    Soccer-ball crowd behaviours creeping in? Often see MoTD shots of people leaving early if their team is losing. What's that about? Only want to see a win? Not interested in skill and expertise if it comes from the wrong colour strip?

    Nothing in this to do with England's performances. Perhaps is inevitable consequence of IRB / RFU's desire to broaden the market, attract in more people to the game. Or maybe I am becoming an old fogey. Where's my blazer?
    I agree the crowd should keep quite during all kicks but unfortunately it seems to be creeping more and more into the game to be fair it's the first time I've ever heard it Twickenham (it does seem to happen at other international grounds more regularly though) but it does seem to be happening more and needs to be cut out

    My guess is the general availability of tickets for the RWC.

    Usually tickets for internationals are sold via clubs to their members with the club's allocation dependent on the size of the club, it's level in terms of the league structure and, increasingly it's diversity of players in terms of age, gender etc.

    For the RWC, anyone could buy tickets and I guess that has facilitated the attendance of a different type of fan.
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  • ddraverddraver Posts: 25,190
    Both true - I would also add that given their treatment of a certain Johnny Wilkinson (and many others) over the years the side I have the least sympathy for in that respect is Aus. It's really not part of their culture at all, which is fair enough at the end of the day
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • veronese68veronese68 Posts: 25,972 Lives Here
    I have to agree about the whistling of the kicker and general demeanour. I hope it's because a match like that attracts more than just rugby fans. My 16 year old son was saying how much he disliked French supporters during the 6 nations because of that kind of behaviour. If teenage rugby fans disapprove of such things hopefully that means it won't take hold too much in future.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 25,190
    Also, the FTSE is up 2.14% today. Which means the Telegraph piece about losing billions if England went out was, well, bowlers.

    It's not really about that though is it. Apparently the IRB and RFU have paid for the tournament itself with ticket sales and Television rights so no one will lose money.

    The trouble is that the RFU will make less money now which will in turn affect how they fund or support the sort of clubs that you or I or our (future) children play for, or how they get it into schools that will otherwise play football, or even Rugby League etc. O2 will, i'm sure, continue to sponsor England but the local solicitor/estate agents may think twice about sponsoring the local rugby club. People in Leicester may decide to pay their good money to City rather than Tigers etc
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Also, the FTSE is up 2.14% today. Which means the Telegraph piece about losing billions if England went out was, well, bowlers.

    It's not really about that though is it. Apparently the IRB and RFU have paid for the tournament itself with ticket sales and Television rights so no one will lose money.

    The trouble is that the RFU will make less money now which will in turn affect how they fund or support the sort of clubs that you or I or our (future) children play for, or how they get it into schools that will otherwise play football, or even Rugby League etc. O2 will, i'm sure, continue to sponsor England but the local solicitor/estate agents may think twice about sponsoring the local rugby club. People in Leicester may decide to pay their good money to City rather than Tigers etc

    IT, at least in terms of my comment, is about that. Here's the piece:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/markets/ftse100/11904328/An-England-exit-from-the-Royal-World-Cup-could-wipe-3bn-off-the-FTSE.html

    There's a wider issue, clearly. But, there we are. The Telegraph thing was utter bowlers.
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  • ProssPross Posts: 34,846
    Hopefully the Trolls have gone now and we can talk sensibly again.

    Unintentional trolling on my part, if indeed I am one of the targets. You may deduce, correctly, that I am not a supporter of England. However, what narked me on Saturday, during what I enjoyed as an intriguing match, and one in which for a short spell in the 2nd half it looked like England might be able to claw back onto level terms, was the behaviour of an admittedly small element of the crowd, whistling the kicker and especially walking out before the end.

    Maybe I'm getting old but I come from a position of you show respect to the other side, you don't try to put off your opponents' kicker, you applaud good play and skill on either side, and you support your side even if they are losing.

    Soccer-ball crowd behaviours creeping in? Often see MoTD shots of people leaving early if their team is losing. What's that about? Only want to see a win? Not interested in skill and expertise if it comes from the wrong colour strip?

    Nothing in this to do with England's performances. Perhaps is inevitable consequence of IRB / RFU's desire to broaden the market, attract in more people to the game. Or maybe I am becoming an old fogey. Where's my blazer?
    I agree the crowd should keep quite during all kicks but unfortunately it seems to be creeping more and more into the game to be fair it's the first time I've ever heard it Twickenham (it does seem to happen at other international grounds more regularly though) but it does seem to be happening more and needs to be cut out

    My guess is the general availability of tickets for the RWC.

    Usually tickets for internationals are sold via clubs to their members with the club's allocation dependent on the size of the club, it's level in terms of the league structure and, increasingly it's diversity of players in terms of age, gender etc.

    For the RWC, anyone could buy tickets and I guess that has facilitated the attendance of a different type of fan.

    This. It has been a problem in Wales since the Millenium Stadium opened and there were suddenly 30,000 extra tickets available. These went to people who 'love rugby' yet never watch a live game outside of internationals. For them the match is about getting drunk and hoping to be seen on TV. The value of being able to get a ticket and watch the game has diminished.

    To be fair, I've enjoyed the banter of England's exit as much as anyone but one of the reasons Wales will not win this World Cup is the whole 'as long as we beat the English' attitude. I don't think the players and management necessarily feel that way but it does sometimes feel like there's contentment at being the best in the NH and that there's no pressure to regularly beat the SH teams. Therefore beating England takes the pressure off.

    As for the whole arrogance thing, unfortunately that's a byproduct of the way the England-centric media report on not only the RWC but pretty much any major sporting tournament. The ability of ITV to discuss England for half an hour before a match they aren't even involved in is an art form and unfortunately it's the team, management and fans that get the blame!
  • ChoggerChogger Posts: 62
    Hopefully the Trolls have gone now and we can talk sensibly again.

    Unintentional trolling on my part, if indeed I am one of the targets. You may deduce, correctly, that I am not a supporter of England. However, what narked me on Saturday, during what I enjoyed as an intriguing match, and one in which for a short spell in the 2nd half it looked like England might be able to claw back onto level terms, was the behaviour of an admittedly small element of the crowd, whistling the kicker and especially walking out before the end.

    Maybe I'm getting old but I come from a position of you show respect to the other side, you don't try to put off your opponents' kicker, you applaud good play and skill on either side, and you support your side even if they are losing.

    Soccer-ball crowd behaviours creeping in? Often see MoTD shots of people leaving early if their team is losing. What's that about? Only want to see a win? Not interested in skill and expertise if it comes from the wrong colour strip?

    Nothing in this to do with England's performances. Perhaps is inevitable consequence of IRB / RFU's desire to broaden the market, attract in more people to the game. Or maybe I am becoming an old fogey. Where's my blazer?
    I agree the crowd should keep quite during all kicks but unfortunately it seems to be creeping more and more into the game to be fair it's the first time I've ever heard it Twickenham (it does seem to happen at other international grounds more regularly though) but it does seem to be happening more and needs to be cut out

    My guess is the general availability of tickets for the RWC.

    Usually tickets for internationals are sold via clubs to their members with the club's allocation dependent on the size of the club, it's level in terms of the league structure and, increasingly it's diversity of players in terms of age, gender etc.

    For the RWC, anyone could buy tickets and I guess that has facilitated the attendance of a different type of fan.

    This. It has been a problem in Wales since the Millenium Stadium opened and there were suddenly 30,000 extra tickets available. These went to people who 'love rugby' yet never watch a live game outside of internationals. For them the match is about getting drunk and hoping to be seen on TV. The value of being able to get a ticket and watch the game has diminished.

    To be fair, I've enjoyed the banter of England's exit as much as anyone but one of the reasons Wales will not win this World Cup is the whole 'as long as we beat the English' attitude. I don't think the players and management necessarily feel that way but it does sometimes feel like there's contentment at being the best in the NH and that there's no pressure to regularly beat the SH teams. Therefore beating England takes the pressure off.

    As for the whole arrogance thing, unfortunately that's a byproduct of the way the England-centric media report on not only the RWC but pretty much any major sporting tournament. The ability of ITV to discuss England for half an hour before a match they aren't even involved in is an art form and unfortunately it's the team, management and fans that get the blame!

    Agree there the press seem to do a fine job of building expectation and bulling the team up and when they ultimately fail rip them to shreds it really does no favours with anything and it makes everyone seem arrogant when 90-95% of supporters and the team are probably not and have a realistic view of where we are. Whilst I'm disappointed we went out so early and I do find most of the banter funny unfortunately there are small percentage that take it to the extreme because of the attitude of the press and I've seen some 'banter' that is just over the top and I find it sad that our game appears to be going this way but I suppose that is a by product of a growing game.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 25,190
    Just had a random thought...did nt an Aussie Player a few years ago (?Genia*) say something similar to "No England player would get into this Aussie Squad"? I think it might have been the year that Ashton scored that epic try out of his own 22?

    I'm wondering if Cipriani (who is an odd fish at the best of times) was making a ironic joke but it was so obscure that no one got it...

    (*Trouble is that if you try and google it all you get are the Cipriani links)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ChoggerChogger Posts: 62
    He Said it was a tongue in cheek comment and he wasn't going to bring his mates down and it was taken out of context but he couldn't control the headlines on the pre match build up on Saturday when questioned about it by Martin Bayfield so possibly it was. Also players are always saying things like that to try to build confidence of their own team mostly in private but occassionaly in public. How many times have you been below your posts after a score and saying each player is better than his opposite man and they are only living off our mistakes cut those out and we are better etc. Its only like that but in public
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 8,305
    Also, the FTSE is up 2.14% today. Which means the Telegraph piece about losing billions if England went out was, well, bowlers.

    It's not really about that though is it. Apparently the IRB and RFU have paid for the tournament itself with ticket sales and Television rights so no one will lose money.

    The trouble is that the RFU will make less money now which will in turn affect how they fund or support the sort of clubs that you or I or our (future) children play for, or how they get it into schools that will otherwise play football, or even Rugby League etc. O2 will, i'm sure, continue to sponsor England but the local solicitor/estate agents may think twice about sponsoring the local rugby club. People in Leicester may decide to pay their good money to City rather than Tigers etc


    Hmmm, is that a bad thing? I mean obviously it is for the RFU but football is a superior sport anyway and the way rugby is going you'd have to think twice about the injury rate before encouraging a child to get into it.
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  • ddraverddraver Posts: 25,190
    I will not write the word that came out of my mouth when I read that DeV but safe to say i totally disagree with you on all points
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • prb007prb007 Posts: 703
    Also, the FTSE is up 2.14% today. Which means the Telegraph piece about losing billions if England went out was, well, bowlers.

    It's not really about that though is it. Apparently the IRB and RFU have paid for the tournament itself with ticket sales and Television rights so no one will lose money.

    The trouble is that the RFU will make less money now which will in turn affect how they fund or support the sort of clubs that you or I or our (future) children play for, or how they get it into schools that will otherwise play football, or even Rugby League etc. O2 will, i'm sure, continue to sponsor England but the local solicitor/estate agents may think twice about sponsoring the local rugby club. People in Leicester may decide to pay their good money to City rather than Tigers etc


    Hmmm, is that a bad thing? I mean obviously it is for the RFU but football is a superior sport anyway and the way rugby is going you'd have to think twice about the injury rate before encouraging a child to get into it.

    now that my schadenfreude has exhausted itself (thanks for that ddraver....glee/xenophobia/relief/joy all in one, ugly Germanic adjective!)...DeVlaeminck, WHAT on earth are you talking about...would you think twice before taking your child's stabilisers off due to the underbelly of PED's in cycling and the inherent dangers of the open road?
    Please enlighten us as to why Association Football is superior to Rugby Football?
    Is it the exemplary way it's stars conduct themselves in the public eye?
    The way they respect the referee and one another on the field of play?
    The sportsmanship they show, on and off the field of play?
    Over-paid, under-educated, racist, disrespectful, knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing primadonnas... :evil:
    If Wales was flattened out, it'd be bigger than England!
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  • prb007prb007 Posts: 703
    edited October 2015
    Is always better for a tournament when the hosts do fairly well....

    ...they did fairly well to come third in their group! :lol:

    28679.jpg
    If Wales was flattened out, it'd be bigger than England!
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  • ddraverddraver Posts: 25,190
    way to step all over your point there...

    classy
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ChoggerChogger Posts: 62
    And thats the sort of 'banter I was talking about earlier similar to the picture on page 8 (I won't bump it up by quoting it) Don't mind the picture think its quite funny as a mock new article its calling all the English the C word that I take exception to is there any need? its quite a funny thing without the offensive bit.
  • ChoggerChogger Posts: 62
    Anyway back on topic what do people think of the team selected for Uruguay potentially as a last hoorah for Lancaster? I think its good to see some of the fringe guys get a run I know its a meaningless game but people like Slade could play their way into future squads over others http://www.englandrugby.com/news/england-bring-fresh-faces-for-uruguay/
  • prb007prb007 Posts: 703
    way to step all over your point there...

    classy

    I thank you... :wink:
    If Wales was flattened out, it'd be bigger than England!
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  • Hooper banned for a week. Won't face Wales.
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  • prb007prb007 Posts: 703
    Hooper banned for a week. Won't face Wales.

    ...should beat them easily, now, then... :roll:
    If Wales was flattened out, it'd be bigger than England!
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  • ChoggerChogger Posts: 62
    Hooper banned for a week. Won't face Wales.
    Good news for Wales although they will still have to face Pocock
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 25,190
    Hooper banned for a week. Won't face Wales.
    grrrrrr

    @ Chogger - I just can't care really...In an ideal world I'd rather see a bunch of uncapped players play just to see what would happen. But hey ho.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ProssPross Posts: 34,846
    Anyway back on topic what do people think of the team selected for Uruguay potentially as a last hoorah for Lancaster? I think its good to see some of the fringe guys get a run I know its a meaningless game but people like Slade could play their way into future squads over others http://www.englandrugby.com/news/england-bring-fresh-faces-for-uruguay/

    Sticking with Farrell albeit at 12 seems a bit like they're hedging their bets. It should be a comfortable win so experiment a bit. Slade finally being there is a step in the right direction for England though. Hopefully the experiment won't last long and it will be a Farrell / Burgess 10 and 12 partnership come the 6 Nations (hopefully with Ashton back on the wing) :wink: I really find it hard to believe that Robshaw is the best openside in English rugby, even allowing for the rule excluding Armitage. It's an area where virtually every other major rugby nation are better.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 25,190
    Remember they have to pick from the squad, they can't ring the changes too much. The team to watch will be the first 6N game v Scotland.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ProssPross Posts: 34,846
    Joseph on the bench though. I'd have played him at 13 with Slade at 12 and Ford at 10. I know it would be an experiment but what better time to try it? I certainly wouldn't fancy playing against those 3! Easter at 8 is hardly looking to the future but I guess that's been forced to a large extent.
  • foreheadforehead Posts: 180
    Anyway back on topic what do people think of the team selected for Uruguay potentially as a last hoorah for Lancaster? I think its good to see some of the fringe guys get a run I know its a meaningless game but people like Slade could play their way into future squads over others http://www.englandrugby.com/news/england-bring-fresh-faces-for-uruguay/

    Sticking with Farrell albeit at 12 seems a bit like they're hedging their bets. It should be a comfortable win so experiment a bit. Slade finally being there is a step in the right direction for England though. Hopefully the experiment won't last long and it will be a Farrell / Burgess 10 and 12 partnership come the 6 Nations (hopefully with Ashton back on the wing) :wink: I really find it hard to believe that Robshaw is the best openside in English rugby, even allowing for the rule excluding Armitage. It's an area where virtually every other major rugby nation are better.

    Are you drunk? Hopefully it'll be Ford at 10 and we never see Burgess in an England shirt again (unless it happens to have the number 6 or 7 on the back of it). His own club don't even know where to play him.

    Come 6N time we should see Burell back int the centres and Burgess playing back at Bath at whatever position they feel like.

    EDIT - Sorry, that came across quite agressive, didn't mean it to.

    The wheels fell off this WC campaign when Ford was dropped for Farrel at 10 against Wales.
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  • ChoggerChogger Posts: 62
    I really don't get the Farrell thing he is a good player but I prefer Ford every day of the week he gets England playing on the front foot and with Joseph and Slade I think would be a huge attacking threat to defences where as Farrell sits to deep and seems devoid of creative ideas for me and is not a centre. I feel a bit sorry for Barritt he is always made a scapegoat but he is a workhorse centre and works well with creative players around him similar to the Tindall Greenwood partnership but when teamed with Burgess and Farrell they are all to similar and he seems to disappear.
    As for Robshaw Kevesic is leaps and bounds ahead as a 7.
    if it was me in charge I would play a completely experimental team during the 6 nations just to try things out and rebuild
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