China Steel Frame build

Bozabyka
Bozabyka Posts: 252
edited November 2015 in MTB workshop & tech
I am aware several Chinese factories build titanium bike frames built as one offs.
Is anyone aware of a Chinese factory building steel frames, custom spec?
I only want one

Comments

  • cooldad
    cooldad Posts: 32,599
    Why does it have to be Chinese?
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

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  • Bozabyka
    Bozabyka Posts: 252
    I want a cheap frame built to my spec.
    I don't want to pay English prices
  • cooldad
    cooldad Posts: 32,599
    Good luck with that.
    I don't do smileys.

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  • rockmonkeysc
    rockmonkeysc Posts: 14,774
    I know of people who have bought custom time frames from China. The geometry was miles out from what they specified.
    It's worth remembering that the Chinese quite often work in inches but their inches are different to British inches although sometimes they decide to work in British inches. Occasionally they work in metric but it rarely goes well.
    Good luck.
  • Giraffoto
    Giraffoto Posts: 2,078
    By the time you've learned to speak Chinese and spent a few weeks in China chatting with various frame builders, you might as well have got one made here.
    Specialized Roubaix Elite 2015
    XM-057 rigid 29er
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,812
    The material cost for a decent frame is 2/3rds the cost anyway, so the saving will not be huge unless they sell you a cheap steel as being a decent one.....
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • mmacavity
    mmacavity Posts: 781
    Why China?
    Would Taiwan be OK?
    Oraeng (they are at Eurobike this weekend)
    Maxway

    A one-off (prototype) will not be cheap

    Don't want to pay" English prices"
    what about
    Welsh
    PaulusQuiros
    http://www.paulusquiros.co.uk/
    or
    Scottish
    Steve Shand
    http://www.shandcycles.com/

    Or make it yourself at
    The Bicycle Academy, Froome, England.
    http://www.thebicycleacademy.org/courses/


    UK frame builders
    http://www.framebuilding.com/custom_uk_bicycle_framebuilders.htm
  • rockmonkeysc
    rockmonkeysc Posts: 14,774
    Building yourself at the Bicycle Academy will be by far the most expensive option. The frame you build on the course is donated to charity. You would then have to go back and build another frame.
    BTR or Curtis would be much cheaper.
  • mmacavity
    mmacavity Posts: 781
    "The frame you build on the course is donated to charity. You would then have to go back and build another frame."
    False
  • rockmonkeysc
    rockmonkeysc Posts: 14,774
    "The frame you build on the course is donated to charity. You would then have to go back and build another frame."
    False

    Thats the way they have always done it, unless it's changed recently.I know several people who have done the course and a couple people who worked there.
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,812
    "The frame you build on the course is donated to charity. You would then have to go back and build another frame."
    False
    You’ll make a TBA Africa bike, which we’ll send to Africa to help people who really need it.

    Direct from the page linked to above.

    That is for the £1000 course, for the £1400 you get to make your own.
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • mmacavity
    mmacavity Posts: 781
    "unless it's changed recently"

    18 months ago
    http://www.thebicycleacademy.org/2014/02/06/meet-robin-and-ted-our-new-framebuilding-teachers/
    They have Robin Mather working there, doing the custom /standard frame course.

    http://www.thebicycleacademy.org/courses/standard-framebuilding-course/
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,812
    Did you bother to read the page linked to above? You know the one detailing what the course is about?
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • Did you ever get a frame made? :)
  • larkim
    larkim Posts: 2,474
    The material cost for a decent frame is 2/3rds the cost anyway, so the saving will not be huge unless they sell you a cheap steel as being a decent one.....
    Really? I'd have expected that the labour costs were more like 90% of the cost of a frame if it were being custom built, hence the vastly cheaper options for non-UK manufacture.
    2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
    2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #4s)
    2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
    2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
    2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
    2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)
  • The material cost for a decent frame is 2/3rds the cost anyway, so the saving will not be huge unless they sell you a cheap steel as being a decent one.....
    Really? I'd have expected that the labour costs were more like 90% of the cost of a frame if it were being custom built, hence the vastly cheaper options for non-UK manufacture.


    Tube sets:

    http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-frame-tubing/TUBE-SETS/


    Remember you still need a BB, cable guides, brake mounts etc.
  • larkim
    larkim Posts: 2,474
    Yebbut they are retail prices of goods which already have had some labour input. The actual material cost of those products will be significantly less.

    But if you took, say, the bottom of the range tubeset from that site, and sent it to a fabricator to convert into a frame, how much do you think the fabricator would be charging? $52 (to meet the 2/3 comment)? Significantly more I would expect.
    2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
    2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #4s)
    2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
    2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
    2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
    2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)
  • I was agreeing with you!
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,812
    BB shell, Dropouts, cable stops, cage mounts
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • larkim
    larkim Posts: 2,474
    2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
    2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #4s)
    2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
    2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
    2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
    2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)
  • The material cost for a decent frame is 2/3rds the cost anyway, so the saving will not be huge unless they sell you a cheap steel as being a decent one.....
    Really? I'd have expected that the labour costs were more like 90% of the cost of a frame if it were being custom built, hence the vastly cheaper options for non-UK manufacture.
    Depends on the tubing being used. Bundles of Columbus for example can come in at a few £k. Making sure your chosen builder has the tubing you want in stock obviously helps reduce the material cost as no need to special order in.

    Even mass produced frames have a fair amount of hand built element to them. Assemble tubes in a jig to correct geo. Tack. Align. Weld. Realign. Finish surface. The custom part is more in terms of having the tubing cut to your specified sizing and angles. Some builders may filet braze with brass instead of conventionally welding which would add more labour cost.
    Bird Aeris : Trek Remedy 9.9 29er : Trek Procaliber 9.8 SL
  • rockmonkeysc
    rockmonkeysc Posts: 14,774
    If you buy a custom frame from China how do you know that they have used the grade of steel you specify or they claim to use?
    I have used Chinese manufacturers through work and have been caught out them not using specified materials more than once. It's difficult to prove without materials testing and when you can prove it you have absolutely zero chance of getting it remade in the correct material.
    If it turns up the wrong size or falls apart you also have no way of getting it replaced or refunded.
  • If you buy a custom frame from China how do you know that they have used the grade of steel you specify or they claim to use?
    I have used Chinese manufacturers through work and have been caught out them not using specified materials more than once. It's difficult to prove without materials testing and when you can prove it you have absolutely zero chance of getting it remade in the correct material.
    If it turns up the wrong size or falls apart you also have no way of getting it replaced or refunded.

    A shame you've experienced this. I occasionally have parts made in China and haven't had a problem, material has been tested and has been as specified. Unfortunately there are companies in every country who will mislead.
    The majority of work I outsource in the UK and more often than not am disappointed.