Loads of Stiction in fork

declan1

Hello again,

I have some Recon Golds on my Anthem, and they are suffering from terrible stiction - when I push down on the bars the forks feel like they're binding at multiple points through the travel, so much so that when pushing down slowly with my whole body weight they stop at points in the travel.

I've done a full service (apart from replacing seals) but it hasn't changed anything. They are awful compared to my old rebas which are beautifully smooth.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

The Rookie

Sounds like a bush/stanchion issue, I'd strip them and check to see if either side on it's own has stiction.

declan1

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19660700#p19660700]The Rookie[/url] wrote:

Sounds like a bush/stanchion issue, I'd strip them and check to see if either side on it's own has stiction.

So remove the lowers and just put one stanchion at a time back in?

They move smoothly with large efforts, but with small forces they stop completely.

Is it recommended to grease the bushings?

buddy_club

Seals could be dry, i use a bit of silicone lubricant on my Raidons to keep them nice and smooth. Spray on a bit of tissue - wipe stantions, compress forks, wipe off dirt pushed up by seal.

declan1

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19660789#p19660789]buddy_club[/url] wrote:

Seals could be dry, i use a bit of silicone lubricant on my Raidons to keep them nice and smooth. Spray on a bit of tissue - wipe stantions, compress forks, wipe off dirt pushed up by seal.

Thanks for the suggestion but I've just completely stripped the fork AGAIN, greased absolutely every sliding thing with a slick honey clone, and made sure everything is nice and clean.

Nothing has changed.

supersonic

Remove the damper and air spring, and try the stanchions on their own. If still binding, I'd suggest new seals and bushes.

poah

maybe you should take the lowers off and give them a proper wash inside to remove all reminents of the old grease. does the fork use a foam ring and oil?

I cleaned up Lewis's old forks today just to see if it would improve things and it did

http://wp.me/p4HYH0-1X

but when I did my old manitou with new seals and oil they still have stiction, could just be the forks are beyond hope

Rightarmbad

Do you mean you just did a lower leg service and returned all parts or do you really mean a full service which would include an air chamber and damper strip,clean and O-ring replace?

declan1

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19661508#p19661508]Rightarmbad[/url] wrote:

Do you mean you just did a lower leg service and returned all parts or do you really mean a full service which would include an air chamber and damper strip,clean and O-ring replace?

Yeah, I didn't replace any o-rings. Could worn o-rings cause this much stiction?

I didn't have a look in the damper side.

The Rookie

Take the lowers off, drain oils from lowers (what did you use?) and damper.

There are only 4 points for stiction, air shaft (main and lower), damper (rebound - main and lower end)), and left and right stanchions, so check each one in turn! Check with no side load and a slight side load.

declan1

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19661567#p19661567]The Rookie[/url] wrote:

Take the lowers off, drain oils from lowers (what did you use?) and damper.

There are only 4 points for stiction, air shaft (main and lower), damper (rebound - main and lower end)), and left and right stanchions, so check each one in turn! Check with no side load and a slight side load.

I'm using some generic 15wt suspension oil from CRC.

I'll take a look at the damper side in a bit - the stiction is really apparent when pushing down on the bars. If I put the brakes on and push down it is smoother but there is still a rough feeling.

The Rookie

Which compression damper? If it has lockout you did make sure it was indexed properly when refitting the lever so its not engaging?

declan1

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19661648#p19661648]The Rookie[/url] wrote:

Which compression damper? If it has lockout you did make sure it was indexed properly when refitting the lever so its not engaging?

It's a Motion Control - I've just taken it out, cleaned it and refitted but the symptoms are exactly the same.

Here's a quick video I made to show the problem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7LG897h7Dw

declan1

Sorry for the bump but any more ideas? Thanks

Rightarmbad

If they are an older type they may gave grease injection ports for the top bush/seal on the back of the lowers.
Just pump a bit of grease in there.

supersonic

As above, need to isolate it. Take the motion control damper out, does it still feel the same way? Take the air assembly out, retest. Then try each empty stanchion in the lowers (you may have to put a little loading on the fork to add resistance).

declan1

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19665071#p19665071]supersonic[/url] wrote:

As above, need to isolate it. Take the motion control damper out, does it still feel the same way? Take the air assembly out, retest. Then try each empty stanchion in the lowers (you may have to put a little loading on the fork to add resistance).

I tried without the damper and the air spring on separate occasions and it doesn't feel any different. There is a fair amount of resistance when the lowers are put back on but it doesn't feel like enough to cause the complete lack of movement seen in the video.

The Rookie

You never compress a fork perfectly linearly in use, that is why you need to test with some side load. If you tested the stanchions with no spring shaft or rebound damper and the stanchions are good, the. It's the seals or bushings.

declan1

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19665139#p19665139]The Rookie[/url] wrote:

You never compress a fork perfectly linearly in use, that is why you need to test with some side load. If you tested the stanchions with no spring shaft or rebound damper and the stanchions are good, the. It's the seals or bushings.

How would I apply side load?

The Rookie

By pushing on the side!

Bottom of the legs on the floor, fork at about a 45 degree angle, push sideways on the arch while trying to slide the uppers in and out

rockmonkeysc

It sounds like either dead bushes or a bent CSU.

declan1

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19665292#p19665292]RockmonkeySC[/url] wrote:

It sounds like either dead bushes or a bent CSU.

CSU seems fine - everything looks lined up and I haven't had any crashes on the bike. I hope it isn't bushes as that likely means I'll have to send it off and pay an extortionate amount to fix

rockmonkeysc

To be honest, if its bushes the fork won't be worth repairing. Are there any marks on the stanchions below the seals?

declan1

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19665335#p19665335]RockmonkeySC[/url] wrote:

To be honest, if its bushes the fork won't be worth repairing. Are there any marks on the stanchions below the seals?

The stanchions are spotless. The stiction seems to be apparent even if I compress the forks with the front brake on - would this suggest seals?

Herdwick

Try to rock the fork fore/aft with the brake on and put your finger between the bridge and the stanction to feel any play, excessive play may cause the stanction to stick to the seal, if there is any play it maybe bushings or stanctions.

declan1

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19665570#p19665570]Herdwick[/url] wrote:

Try to rock the fork fore/aft with the brake on and put your finger between the bridge and the stanction to feel any play, excessive play may cause the stanction to stick to the seal, if there is any play it maybe bushings or stanctions.

There's no play at all

Dick Scruttock

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19665857#p19665857]declan1[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19665570#p19665570]Herdwick[/url] wrote:

Try to rock the fork fore/aft with the brake on and put your finger between the bridge and the stanction to feel any play, excessive play may cause the stanction to stick to the seal, if there is any play it maybe bushings or stanctions.

There's no play at all

You want to have a slight little bit of play as otherwise they will bind.

Had a revelation the other week that rode like shit, very sticky and binding after a fair bit of riding. The bushes were very tight as the legs were slid independantly up the stanchions. A quick run through with a sizing tool had them running spot on.

declan1

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19665960#p19665960]Dick Scruttock[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19665857#p19665857]declan1[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19665570#p19665570]Herdwick[/url] wrote:

Try to rock the fork fore/aft with the brake on and put your finger between the bridge and the stanction to feel any play, excessive play may cause the stanction to stick to the seal, if there is any play it maybe bushings or stanctions.

There's no play at all

You want to have a slight little bit of play as otherwise they will bind.

Had a revelation the other week that rode like shoot, very sticky and binding after a fair bit of riding. The bushes were very tight as the legs were slid independantly up the stanchions. A quick run through with a sizing tool had them running spot on.

How tight (if you can answer that) were the legs? Could you slide them up with a gentle push or did they require a 'knock' to get them going?

lpretro1

Did you use the right weight & amount of fork oil for the relevant chambers as per the RS manual? There are different weights required and different amounts depending on make/model & year of fork?

declan1

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19666100#p19666100]lpretro1[/url] wrote:

Did you use the right weight & amount of fork oil for the relevant chambers as per the RS manual? There are different weights required and different amounts depending on make/model & year of fork?

Yep, followed the oil chart provided by SRAM.

The Rookie

So have you tried uppers in the lowers with both the rebound damper and air shaft removed with a small sideload?

Then added each shaft in turn to check the effect?

You have to do this one step at a time, anything else is like micturating into a prevailing airflow.