Join the Labour Party and save your country!

kingstongraham

He's planning to do PMQs until march.

kingstonian

I suspect he'll be turfed out before then.

rick_chasey

kingstongraham said:

He's planning to do PMQs until march.

I mean. WTF.

There's some serious policy making that's going to be occurring during that time.

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Not defending anything, just looking at your assertion that most people would be better off under a Tory government. Just because the current Labour plans were unrealistic and based on warped ideas that everything that's wrong with the world is the fault of capitalism and a few dozen billionaires, doesn't mean that the Conservative plans are therefore better. They can both be bad in different ways.

If it was a choice between the current government and Corbyn's Labour with an overall majority, which one would you choose?

Honestly, I find the behaviour of both leaders pretty disgusting so I'm glad it's not a choice I had to make. I hope Johnson redeems himself to some degree. Ask me again in 5 years time.

rick_chasey

Column in the FT today by Rana Foroohaar.

First line I thought was striking given the usual discourse on here.


https://www.ft.com/content/d1d012ac-1cf5-11ea-97df-cc63de1d73f4

One of the major economic lessons of the past decade is that austerity doesn’t work. As Greece and myriad other countries have found, you can’t create growth when both the private sector and the public sector are cutting spending. The mathematics simply do not work.

Ben6899

You didn't need an FT columnist to tell you that, Rick.

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

Column in the FT today by Rana Foroohaar.

First line I thought was striking given the usual discourse on here.


https://www.ft.com/content/d1d012ac-1cf5-11ea-97df-cc63de1d73f4

One of the major economic lessons of the past decade is that austerity doesn’t work. As Greece and myriad other countries have found, you can’t create growth when both the private sector and the public sector are cutting spending. The mathematics simply do not work.

But you need strong finances (ie low debt) to allow the Govt to keep spending when the economy is struggling. As it is we have politicians making short term decisions and running a perpetual deficit so leaving them less room to manouvre when they need it.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Column in the FT today by Rana Foroohaar.

First line I thought was striking given the usual discourse on here.


https://www.ft.com/content/d1d012ac-1cf5-11ea-97df-cc63de1d73f4

One of the major economic lessons of the past decade is that austerity doesn’t work. As Greece and myriad other countries have found, you can’t create growth when both the private sector and the public sector are cutting spending. The mathematics simply do not work.

Why do you think Greece got into the financial mess they are in in the first place?

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Column in the FT today by Rana Foroohaar.

First line I thought was striking given the usual discourse on here.


https://www.ft.com/content/d1d012ac-1cf5-11ea-97df-cc63de1d73f4

One of the major economic lessons of the past decade is that austerity doesn’t work. As Greece and myriad other countries have found, you can’t create growth when both the private sector and the public sector are cutting spending. The mathematics simply do not work.

Why do you think Greece got into the financial mess they are in in the first place?

Where to even start? That's a doctoral thesis project

john80

You know you are dealing with eeejits when this is how they spend their time. Thornbury has not really thought through he she is going to win this either from a PR point of view or legally.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50816058

rick_chasey

Possibly ironic use of source, given the threats the govt has been issuing.

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Column in the FT today by Rana Foroohaar.

First line I thought was striking given the usual discourse on here.


https://www.ft.com/content/d1d012ac-1cf5-11ea-97df-cc63de1d73f4

One of the major economic lessons of the past decade is that austerity doesn’t work. As Greece and myriad other countries have found, you can’t create growth when both the private sector and the public sector are cutting spending. The mathematics simply do not work.

Why do you think Greece got into the financial mess they are in in the first place?

Where to even start? That's a doctoral thesis project

Here's Here's decent summary:
https://toptal.com/finance/financial-consultants/greek-debt-crisis

Quote from the link:
"The root cause of Greece’s economic crisis can be found in the profound structural economic inefficiencies that were borne out of the 1980s depression the country suffered through. As the country came out of brutal fascist military rule, the country embarked on a public sector-led economic boom that sowed the seeds of the crisis the country faces today."

Basically, too much debt caused mainly by public sector spending (over and above governsment revenues) - the same thing that Rick and others seem to think is the solution to the problem. So when the markets moved against Greece their debt became very expensive and lenders unwilling to refinance.

Stevo_666

john80 said:

You know you are dealing with eeejits when this is how they spend their time. Thornbury has not really thought through he she is going to win this either from a PR point of view or legally.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50816058

Seems a very stupid thing to do. Ironically.

But good to see them at each others throats.

morstar

Stevo_666 said:

john80 said:

You know you are dealing with eeejits when this is how they spend their time. Thornbury has not really thought through he she is going to win this either from a PR point of view or legally.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50816058

Seems a very stupid thing to do. Ironically.

But good to see them at each others throats.

Well no, not really. No matter what your political allegiances, weak opposition serves nobody.
To put it in business terms, it is the exact reason we have what was formerly (better) known as the ‘monopolies and mergers commission’.

pblakeney

An unrestrained BJ?
Now there’s a thought.

Stevo_666

morstar said:

Stevo_666 said:

john80 said:

You know you are dealing with eeejits when this is how they spend their time. Thornbury has not really thought through he she is going to win this either from a PR point of view or legally.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50816058

Seems a very stupid thing to do. Ironically.

But good to see them at each others throats.

Well no, not really. No matter what your political allegiances, weak opposition serves nobody.
To put it in business terms, it is the exact reason we have what was formerly (better) known as the ‘monopolies and mergers commission’.

A monopoly means no competition which is different from weak competition. It's their problem to sort anyway.

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Column in the FT today by Rana Foroohaar.

First line I thought was striking given the usual discourse on here.


https://www.ft.com/content/d1d012ac-1cf5-11ea-97df-cc63de1d73f4

One of the major economic lessons of the past decade is that austerity doesn’t work. As Greece and myriad other countries have found, you can’t create growth when both the private sector and the public sector are cutting spending. The mathematics simply do not work.

Why do you think Greece got into the financial mess they are in in the first place?

Where to even start? That's a doctoral thesis project

Here's Here's decent summary:
https://toptal.com/finance/financial-consultants/greek-debt-crisis

Quote from the link:
"The root cause of Greece’s economic crisis can be found in the profound structural economic inefficiencies that were borne out of the 1980s depression the country suffered through. As the country came out of brutal fascist military rule, the country embarked on a public sector-led economic boom that sowed the seeds of the crisis the country faces today."

Basically, too much debt caused mainly by public sector spending (over and above governsment revenues) - the same thing that Rick and others seem to think is the solution to the problem. So when the markets moved against Greece their debt became very expensive and lenders unwilling to refinance.

Your summary ignores the first part of your quote. It's clearly more complicated than just 'borrowing too much' even if inability to pay off those debts was the final manifestation of the structural economic inefficiencies. Also, does others include the current government? The latest figures indicate more borrowing will be increasing. And legislating to remove time for a comprehensive trade deal is locking in low growth for at least a couple of years.

rick_chasey

Just found out someone I knew really well growing up was made Tory MP.

Campagined on "Get Brexit done", though I know categorically they are super pro-EU, Europe, and would undoubtedly be remain. Very depressing.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Just found out someone I knew really well growing up was made Tory MP.

Campagined on "Get Brexit done", though I know categorically they are super pro-EU, Europe, and would undoubtedly be remain. Very depressing.

I'd you can't beat them, join them?

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Column in the FT today by Rana Foroohaar.

First line I thought was striking given the usual discourse on here.


https://www.ft.com/content/d1d012ac-1cf5-11ea-97df-cc63de1d73f4

One of the major economic lessons of the past decade is that austerity doesn’t work. As Greece and myriad other countries have found, you can’t create growth when both the private sector and the public sector are cutting spending. The mathematics simply do not work.

Why do you think Greece got into the financial mess they are in in the first place?

Where to even start? That's a doctoral thesis project

Here's Here's decent summary:
https://toptal.com/finance/financial-consultants/greek-debt-crisis

Quote from the link:
"The root cause of Greece’s economic crisis can be found in the profound structural economic inefficiencies that were borne out of the 1980s depression the country suffered through. As the country came out of brutal fascist military rule, the country embarked on a public sector-led economic boom that sowed the seeds of the crisis the country faces today."

Basically, too much debt caused mainly by public sector spending (over and above governsment revenues) - the same thing that Rick and others seem to think is the solution to the problem. So when the markets moved against Greece their debt became very expensive and lenders unwilling to refinance.

Your summary ignores the first part of your quote. It's clearly more complicated than just 'borrowing too much' even if inability to pay off those debts was the final manifestation of the structural economic inefficiencies. Also, does others include the current government? The latest figures indicate more borrowing will be increasing. And legislating to remove time for a comprehensive trade deal is locking in low growth for at least a couple of years.

You're ignoring the elephant in the room in the Greek tragedy, which was too much debt. Which was caused by excess of spending over income.

Longshot

rick_chasey said:

Just found out someone I knew really well growing up was made Tory MP.

Campagined on "Get Brexit done", though I know categorically they are super pro-EU, Europe, and would undoubtedly be remain. Very depressing.

Perhaps they know something we don't?

rick_chasey

Yeah I guess.

Doesn't do much to dispel the stereotype that they're just in it for their own career over some burning desire to make sure society is optimal (in whatever way they think that is).

Longshot

rick_chasey said:

Yeah I guess.

Doesn't do much to dispel the stereotype that they're just in it for their own career over some burning desire to make sure society is optimal (in whatever way they think that is).

That's not a stereotype, it's a fact.

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Column in the FT today by Rana Foroohaar.

First line I thought was striking given the usual discourse on here.


https://www.ft.com/content/d1d012ac-1cf5-11ea-97df-cc63de1d73f4

One of the major economic lessons of the past decade is that austerity doesn’t work. As Greece and myriad other countries have found, you can’t create growth when both the private sector and the public sector are cutting spending. The mathematics simply do not work.

Why do you think Greece got into the financial mess they are in in the first place?

Where to even start? That's a doctoral thesis project

Here's Here's decent summary:
https://toptal.com/finance/financial-consultants/greek-debt-crisis

Quote from the link:
"The root cause of Greece’s economic crisis can be found in the profound structural economic inefficiencies that were borne out of the 1980s depression the country suffered through. As the country came out of brutal fascist military rule, the country embarked on a public sector-led economic boom that sowed the seeds of the crisis the country faces today."

Basically, too much debt caused mainly by public sector spending (over and above governsment revenues) - the same thing that Rick and others seem to think is the solution to the problem. So when the markets moved against Greece their debt became very expensive and lenders unwilling to refinance.

Your summary ignores the first part of your quote. It's clearly more complicated than just 'borrowing too much' even if inability to pay off those debts was the final manifestation of the structural economic inefficiencies. Also, does others include the current government? The latest figures indicate more borrowing will be increasing. And legislating to remove time for a comprehensive trade deal is locking in low growth for at least a couple of years.

You're ignoring the elephant in the room in the Greek tragedy, which was too much debt. Which was caused by excess of spending over income.

I'm not ignoring it I'm saying that was just the end result, not the cause. Our own government has spent more than it receives since forever with just a few brief exceptions, so it's obviously more complicated than that.

rjsterry

rick_chasey said:

Yeah I guess.

Doesn't do much to dispel the stereotype that they're just in it for their own career over some burning desire to make sure society is optimal (in whatever way they think that is).

You should read Isabel Hardman's book, if you haven't already.

rick_chasey

Not sure I could face it, but why do you say so?

rjsterry

rick_chasey said:

Not sure I could face it, but why do you say so?

This one https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Why_We_Get_the_Wrong_Politicians.html?id=giRNDwAAQBAJ&source=kp_book_description&redir_esc=y

I've only read the first chapter so far about the selection process, but it is quite an eye opener. It is not at all surprising that politicians are slightly odd people drawn from quite a narrow subset of the population.

rick_chasey

It's more anyone who had a lot of contact with them growing up thinks they are a bad egg.

Not really any friends. Got away with an awful lot because of their unusual privilege. Not that smart, but high ideas.

I mean, I guess they certainly have a thick skin. Anyway, I'll stop. Not really fair on them. They got a properly decent majority so fair play.

rjsterry

For example, the amount of your own money you need to put in (including loss of earnings) just to get selected as a candidate is somewhere between £30K and £100K. Another snippet: those with absent or disinterested fathers during their childhood are disproportionately represented in parliament.

rick_chasey

Yes that is the case here too. Father died in mid-late teens.