Join the Labour Party and save your country!

Ben6899

Not sure about those relying on food banks and temporary accommodation. And regrettably, that's quite a lot of people.

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

slowmart said:

For the first time in my life I voted Labour, it wasn’t without conflict or having to put some serious reservations to one side, in the end it reduced down to a single question, I believe Corbyn, as woeful as he is, would done less damage to the UK.

Now we have Boris in charge heading full speed out the trading block which is our largest trading partner with a new cohort of true believers of MP’s which have shifted the Tories significantly to the right and a Parliamentary majority of 80.

Happy censored Christmas

As Brian mentions - Corbyn fanboi

Not good timing, joining the lefties just as they become even bigger losers than before.

I thought it was you that joined. He just lent them a vote. Plenty of nose-holding on both sides of this unpopularity contest

So what? Its the result that counts. Hence my comment.

Maybe it's time for you to consider the old saying 'if you can't beat them, join them'

What on earth for? Seriously, why would I vote for a party that disadvantages me and my business? Is bragging that you voted for the winning party important?

Never good to be on the losing side all the time, it makes people very negative. Just look at this place...

Also it might give you a chance to influence the direction of the Tory party. Worked well enough with me joining Labour.

As posted on the other thread your £3 made no difference whatsoever. He would have been leader even if Miliband hadn't changed the rules. FWIW, I don't consider myself to be on a side but I have voted for the winning candidate in the 2010, 2015 and 2017 elections. I have no influence in any other constituencies nor ambition to get further involved in politics. My new Conservative MP scraped in by about 600 votes against the LD's Brexit spokesperson, which was not exactly surprising considering the area leans towards Leave. I think the other local factor was the LD controlled council bringing in some parking restrictions, which sounds laughably trivial in comparison.

You're putting a lot of effort into showing that I wasted 3 quid, but this thread alone has been priceless

As for you voting for the winning candidate in the last GEs, those are classic cases of winning the battle of losing the war. With the possible exception of 2010 when you were in Cameron's pocket.

It's not a battle or a war. It's choosing who I want to be my MP. Unless I choose to change careers that's the only influence I'm going to have just like you and everyone else on here bar the one or two who went out campaigning. If a majority of the constituency disagree with me that's disappointing, but no more. I'm principally interested in how good a job my MP does rather than which party he belongs to. It's still a tight marginal constituency, which should keep him on his toes.

briantrumpet

Ben6899 said:

Gonna buy some Euros, but not too hastily - let's see what the £ does over the next few days.

Ditto, probably. Only a small bounce at the moment.

Stevo_666

Ben6899 said:

Not sure about those relying on food banks and temporary accommodation. And regrettably, that's quite a lot of people.

My point still stands.

Also what makes you think that those would get better under a Labour administration?

Pross

I was thinking earlier that from as far back I can remember enough to make a judgement, so say the 1987 election, I really don't think the Party running the country has made any noticeable difference to my daily life. I suspect it's the same with most people, maybe it only really ever matters at the extremes of the financial scale but even then I'm not convinced anyone really benefits from hard left policies.

surrey_commuter

Pross said:

I was thinking earlier that from as far back I can remember enough to make a judgement, so say the 1987 election, I really don't think the Party running the country has made any noticeable difference to my daily life. I suspect it's the same with most people, maybe it only really ever matters at the extremes of the financial scale but even then I'm not convinced anyone really benefits from hard left policies.

If you worked in the public sector you might well benefit from Labour Govt, likewise if you work in an industry that thrives on public sector contracts.
For five years I imagine if you earn less than £50k, don’t have private medical and have kids in state school then better off under Labour.

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

Ben6899 said:

Voted Labour.

Actually fortunate enough* to be better off with a Tory government.

Gonna buy some Euros, but not too hastily - let's see what the £ does over the next few days.

Struggling with the football-style partisan reactions from some - that's just weird for me.

*some hard work in there as well, but I appreciate my privelege

To be fair, most people will very likely be better off with a Tory government compared to a Labour one.

Err, on what evidence?

kingstongraham

Pross said:

I was thinking earlier that from as far back I can remember enough to make a judgement, so say the 1987 election, I really don't think the Party running the country has made any noticeable difference to my daily life. I suspect it's the same with most people, maybe it only really ever matters at the extremes of the financial scale but even then I'm not convinced anyone really benefits from hard left policies.

The definitions change over time: "The State medical service is part of the Socialist plot to convert Great Britain into a National Socialist economy. The doctors' stand is the first effective revolt of the professional classes against Socialist tyranny. There is nothing that Bevan or any other Socialist can do about it in the shape of Hitlerian coercion."

There are things that are better done as a public good, there are things that are better in a market economy. The dogmatic socialist wouldn't agree.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

Ben6899 said:

Voted Labour.

Actually fortunate enough* to be better off with a Tory government.

Gonna buy some Euros, but not too hastily - let's see what the £ does over the next few days.

Struggling with the football-style partisan reactions from some - that's just weird for me.

*some hard work in there as well, but I appreciate my privelege

To be fair, most people will very likely be better off with a Tory government compared to a Labour one.

Err, on what evidence?

History. Look what the last proper left wing government did to the country in the late 70s.

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

Ben6899 said:

Voted Labour.

Actually fortunate enough* to be better off with a Tory government.

Gonna buy some Euros, but not too hastily - let's see what the £ does over the next few days.

Struggling with the football-style partisan reactions from some - that's just weird for me.

*some hard work in there as well, but I appreciate my privelege

To be fair, most people will very likely be better off with a Tory government compared to a Labour one.

Err, on what evidence?

History. Look what the last proper left wing government did to the country in the late 70s.

I did. The real terms median disposable income rises pretty consistently from 1948 to the present. The only two significant dips are the 1973 oil crisis (Heath) and the GFC (Brown). There is a slight levelling off in the early 90s recession Major. That suggests Pross is right.

Pross

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

I was thinking earlier that from as far back I can remember enough to make a judgement, so say the 1987 election, I really don't think the Party running the country has made any noticeable difference to my daily life. I suspect it's the same with most people, maybe it only really ever matters at the extremes of the financial scale but even then I'm not convinced anyone really benefits from hard left policies.

If you worked in the public sector you might well benefit from Labour Govt, likewise if you work in an industry that thrives on public sector contracts.
For five years I imagine if you earn less than £50k, don’t have private medical and have kids in state school then better off under Labour.

I worked in local government from 1989 to 1998. I know I didn't do much of a stint under Labour but really didn't see any difference and after I left there didn't seem much of a boost in purely financial terms. If anything, in my field where the skills transfer easily to the private sector equivalent, there was a huge flow out of the public sector due to the booming economy.

rick_chasey

Love the ignoring of the Blair years.

I believe he was being called the most dangerous man to the U.K. on the front page of a newspaper before he was elected too, no?

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

Ben6899 said:

Voted Labour.

Actually fortunate enough* to be better off with a Tory government.

Gonna buy some Euros, but not too hastily - let's see what the £ does over the next few days.

Struggling with the football-style partisan reactions from some - that's just weird for me.

*some hard work in there as well, but I appreciate my privelege

To be fair, most people will very likely be better off with a Tory government compared to a Labour one.

Err, on what evidence?

History. Look what the last proper left wing government did to the country in the late 70s.

I did. The real terms median disposable income rises pretty consistently from 1948 to the present. The only two significant dips are the 1973 oil crisis (Heath) and the GFC (Brown). There is a slight levelling off in the early 90s recession Major. That suggests Pross is right.

You may have omitted the high unemployment, rampant inflation eating into savings, brain drain from punitive taxes. Also having to go to the IMF for a bail out (what happened to all that lovely high tax?).

Although thankfully we won't know for quite some time how badly the hard left would impact the country next time.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Love the ignoring of the Blair years.

I believe he was being called the most dangerous man to the U.K. on the front page of a newspaper before he was elected too, no?

Omitted because I and pretty much everyone else would not class the Blair administration as hard left.

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

Ben6899 said:

Voted Labour.

Actually fortunate enough* to be better off with a Tory government.

Gonna buy some Euros, but not too hastily - let's see what the £ does over the next few days.

Struggling with the football-style partisan reactions from some - that's just weird for me.

*some hard work in there as well, but I appreciate my privelege

To be fair, most people will very likely be better off with a Tory government compared to a Labour one.

Err, on what evidence?

History. Look what the last proper left wing government did to the country in the late 70s.

I did. The real terms median disposable income rises pretty consistently from 1948 to the present. The only two significant dips are the 1973 oil crisis (Heath) and the GFC (Brown). There is a slight levelling off in the early 90s recession Major. That suggests Pross is right.

You may have omitted the high unemployment, rampant inflation eating into savings, brain drain from punitive taxes. Also having to go to the IMF for a bail out (what happened to all that lovely high tax?).

Although thankfully we won't know for quite some time how badly the hard left would impact the country next time.

True median income is only one measure. It's a surprisingly smooth curve given the other things that you mention. It suggests that governments have less impact than they claim.

Unemployment is a bit more complicated, I think. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unemployment_in_the_United_Kingdom_since_1881.svg

Inflation: fair point.

Brain Drain: difficult to measure but I'll see what I can find.

IMF bail out: again, fair point.

briantrumpet

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

Ben6899 said:

Voted Labour.

Actually fortunate enough* to be better off with a Tory government.

Gonna buy some Euros, but not too hastily - let's see what the £ does over the next few days.

Struggling with the football-style partisan reactions from some - that's just weird for me.

*some hard work in there as well, but I appreciate my privelege

To be fair, most people will very likely be better off with a Tory government compared to a Labour one.

Err, on what evidence?

History. Look what the last proper left wing government did to the country in the late 70s.

I did. The real terms median disposable income rises pretty consistently from 1948 to the present. The only two significant dips are the 1973 oil crisis (Heath) and the GFC (Brown). There is a slight levelling off in the early 90s recession Major. That suggests Pross is right.

You may have omitted the high unemployment, rampant inflation eating into savings, brain drain from punitive taxes. Also having to go to the IMF for a bail out (what happened to all that lovely high tax?).

Although thankfully we won't know for quite some time how badly the hard left would impact the country next time.

True median income is only one measure. It's a surprisingly smooth curve given the other things that you mention. It suggests that governments have less impact than they claim.

Unemployment is a bit more complicated, I think. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unemployment_in_the_United_Kingdom_since_1881.svg

Inflation: fair point.

Brain Drain: difficult to measure but I'll see what I can find.

IMF bail out: again, fair point.

Also worth looking up days lost to strike action in the 1970s.

rick_chasey

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

Ben6899 said:

Voted Labour.

Actually fortunate enough* to be better off with a Tory government.

Gonna buy some Euros, but not too hastily - let's see what the £ does over the next few days.

Struggling with the football-style partisan reactions from some - that's just weird for me.

*some hard work in there as well, but I appreciate my privelege

To be fair, most people will very likely be better off with a Tory government compared to a Labour one.

Err, on what evidence?

History. Look what the last proper left wing government did to the country in the late 70s.

I did. The real terms median disposable income rises pretty consistently from 1948 to the present. The only two significant dips are the 1973 oil crisis (Heath) and the GFC (Brown). There is a slight levelling off in the early 90s recession Major. That suggests Pross is right.

You may have omitted the high unemployment, rampant inflation eating into savings, brain drain from punitive taxes. Also having to go to the IMF for a bail out (what happened to all that lovely high tax?).

Although thankfully we won't know for quite some time how badly the hard left would impact the country next time.

True median income is only one measure. It's a surprisingly smooth curve given the other things that you mention. It suggests that governments have less impact than they claim.

Unemployment is a bit more complicated, I think. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unemployment_in_the_United_Kingdom_since_1881.svg

Inflation: fair point.

Brain Drain: difficult to measure but I'll see what I can find.

IMF bail out: again, fair point.

Let’s hope none of the recovery was down to joining what would become the world’s biggest single market.

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Love the ignoring of the Blair years.

I believe he was being called the most dangerous man to the U.K. on the front page of a newspaper before he was elected too, no?

Omitted because I and pretty much everyone else would not class the Blair administration as hard left.

I struggle to believe you’ve not ever referred to him as that.

Would also point out that the ‘70s was 40-50 years ago and the world has moved on. After all, I doubt Blyth Valley would have even considered voting Tory 50 years ago.

A lot of Corbynism would feel alien to labour voters in the ‘70s so don’t overplay the (admittedly weak) hand.

If you want I can dig out how Tories were pretty weak when it came to slavery in the early 19th C but that too is a long time ago, so not massively relevant.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Love the ignoring of the Blair years.

I believe he was being called the most dangerous man to the U.K. on the front page of a newspaper before he was elected too, no?

Omitted because I and pretty much everyone else would not class the Blair administration as hard left.

I struggle to believe you’ve not ever referred to him as that.

Take it from me, he isn't and I haven't. But maybe you should have read my point properly in the first place.

The only way Labour has won any GEs in living memory was by moving as far away from the left as they could. And that's the lesson for Labour now.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

Ben6899 said:

Voted Labour.

Actually fortunate enough* to be better off with a Tory government.

Gonna buy some Euros, but not too hastily - let's see what the £ does over the next few days.

Struggling with the football-style partisan reactions from some - that's just weird for me.

*some hard work in there as well, but I appreciate my privelege

To be fair, most people will very likely be better off with a Tory government compared to a Labour one.

Err, on what evidence?

History. Look what the last proper left wing government did to the country in the late 70s.

I did. The real terms median disposable income rises pretty consistently from 1948 to the present. The only two significant dips are the 1973 oil crisis (Heath) and the GFC (Brown). There is a slight levelling off in the early 90s recession Major. That suggests Pross is right.

You may have omitted the high unemployment, rampant inflation eating into savings, brain drain from punitive taxes. Also having to go to the IMF for a bail out (what happened to all that lovely high tax?).

Although thankfully we won't know for quite some time how badly the hard left would impact the country next time.

True median income is only one measure. It's a surprisingly smooth curve given the other things that you mention. It suggests that governments have less impact than they claim.

Unemployment is a bit more complicated, I think. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unemployment_in_the_United_Kingdom_since_1881.svg

Inflation: fair point.

Brain Drain: difficult to measure but I'll see what I can find.

IMF bail out: again, fair point.

Let’s hope none of the recovery was down to joining what would become the world’s biggest single market.

Why? Not that it's relevant to the point being made.

rick_chasey

UK is set to leave it in short order.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

UK is set to leave it in short order.

I know, but as I say, not relevant to the point above.

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

Ben6899 said:

Voted Labour.

Actually fortunate enough* to be better off with a Tory government.

Gonna buy some Euros, but not too hastily - let's see what the £ does over the next few days.

Struggling with the football-style partisan reactions from some - that's just weird for me.

*some hard work in there as well, but I appreciate my privelege

To be fair, most people will very likely be better off with a Tory government compared to a Labour one.

Err, on what evidence?

History. Look what the last proper left wing government did to the country in the late 70s.

I did. The real terms median disposable income rises pretty consistently from 1948 to the present. The only two significant dips are the 1973 oil crisis (Heath) and the GFC (Brown). There is a slight levelling off in the early 90s recession Major. That suggests Pross is right.

You may have omitted the high unemployment, rampant inflation eating into savings, brain drain from punitive taxes. Also having to go to the IMF for a bail out (what happened to all that lovely high tax?).

Although thankfully we won't know for quite some time how badly the hard left would impact the country next time.

True median income is only one measure. It's a surprisingly smooth curve given the other things that you mention. It suggests that governments have less impact than they claim.

Unemployment is a bit more complicated, I think. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unemployment_in_the_United_Kingdom_since_1881.svg

Inflation: fair point.

Brain Drain: difficult to measure but I'll see what I can find.

IMF bail out: again, fair point.

I'm interested as to why you seem keen to defend the record of a hard left Labour administration?

rjsterry

Not defending anything, just looking at your assertion that most people would be better off under a Tory government. Just because the current Labour plans were unrealistic and based on warped ideas that everything that's wrong with the world is the fault of capitalism and a few dozen billionaires, doesn't mean that the Conservative plans are therefore better. They can both be bad in different ways.

Pross

It seems the Labour leadership are falling over themselves to take the blame and 'failing to get their message across'. They still don't seem to understand that they succeeded in getting their message across but as has been the case for 40 odd years the UK population on the whole doesn't like that type of message.

In a way I admire them in that they have a political ideology and are prepared to stick with that rather than change their principles to get elected but I don't see how they can ever change things if they're in permanent opposition. Surely better to get elected on the basis of their more moderate aims, achieve them and then try to convince people that their more radical policies are the way to go?

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Not defending anything, just looking at your assertion that most people would be better off under a Tory government. Just because the current Labour plans were unrealistic and based on warped ideas that everything that's wrong with the world is the fault of capitalism and a few dozen billionaires, doesn't mean that the Conservative plans are therefore better. They can both be bad in different ways.

If it was a choice between the current government and Corbyn's Labour with an overall majority, which one would you choose?

Stevo_666

Longshot

Stevo - can you use your leverage to get RLB voted in as new Labour leader? That should kill them off for ever.

Stevo_666

Longshot said:

Stevo - can you use your leverage to get RLB voted in as new Labour leader? That should kill them off for ever.

Anyone can do that if they're prepared to pay the membership fee. In fact in the wake of their GE thrashing, Jeremy himself asked for like minded people to join the party - probably code for getting more hard left membership to make sure that the next Labour leader is basically Corbyn without the beard.

I feel no need to rejoin myself as I feel they are already screwed, but anyway I wish Jeremy the best of luck in his succession planning

Stevo_666

Pross said:

It seems the Labour leadership are falling over themselves to take the blame and 'failing to get their message across'. They still don't seem to understand that they succeeded in getting their message across but as has been the case for 40 odd years the UK population on the whole doesn't like that type of message.

In a way I admire them in that they have a political ideology and are prepared to stick with that rather than change their principles to get elected but I don't see how they can ever change things if they're in permanent opposition. Surely better to get elected on the basis of their more moderate aims, achieve them and then try to convince people that their more radical policies are the way to go?

Yep, the deluded lefties are blaming anything but their crap policies and their crap 'leadership'.

But please don't go giving them ideas...