BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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I don't see that as inconsistent with his Brexit negotiations. He was always authoritative and keen for rigid rules and wanting a return of national service seems consistent with that. He also played politics a lot during the Brexit negotiations.ddraver said:It is a genuine insight into the difference between ideology and negotiating position to see where Michel Barnier has gone since the brexit negotiations...
(if anyone needs my questionable translation.
I will introduce a mandatory 6 month military service for you young people. It will be served in the army, the police, fire or ambulance service or for the French "red cross")
However, he has made some statements about wanting more from the EU that do seem inconsistent.0 -
Have a look at the whole twitter thread (not posting it all, no point)TheBigBean said:kingstongraham said:
Are the overall numbers up, or are they now coming via a more dangerous route because that's the option left?rick_chasey said:Asylum applications
The number of asylum applications to the UK peaked in 2002 at 84,132. After that the number fell sharply to reach a twenty-year low point of 17,916 in 2010, before rising again to reach 35,737 in 2019.
The number of applications fell slightly to 29,456 applications in 2020, as the combined result of far fewer arrivals by air and an increase in arrivals by small boat across the English Channel.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01403/
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Perhaps you could provide a summary. Twitter doesn't like my phone at the moment.ddraver said:
Have a look at the whole twitter thread (not posting it all, no point)TheBigBean said:kingstongraham said:
Are the overall numbers up, or are they now coming via a more dangerous route because that's the option left?rick_chasey said:Asylum applications
The number of asylum applications to the UK peaked in 2002 at 84,132. After that the number fell sharply to reach a twenty-year low point of 17,916 in 2010, before rising again to reach 35,737 in 2019.
The number of applications fell slightly to 29,456 applications in 2020, as the combined result of far fewer arrivals by air and an increase in arrivals by small boat across the English Channel.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01403/0 -
So it feels like Brexit has had little impact either way. People still want to come here, but the enforcement efforts on previous routes have made it more visible and dangerous.TheBigBean said:kingstongraham said:
Are the overall numbers up, or are they now coming via a more dangerous route because that's the option left?rick_chasey said:Asylum applications
The number of asylum applications to the UK peaked in 2002 at 84,132. After that the number fell sharply to reach a twenty-year low point of 17,916 in 2010, before rising again to reach 35,737 in 2019.
The number of applications fell slightly to 29,456 applications in 2020, as the combined result of far fewer arrivals by air and an increase in arrivals by small boat across the English Channel.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01403/
No simple answer is there?0 -
Erm...not easily.TheBigBean said:
Perhaps you could provide a summary. Twitter doesn't like my phone at the moment.ddraver said:
Have a look at the whole twitter thread (not posting it all, no point)TheBigBean said:kingstongraham said:
Are the overall numbers up, or are they now coming via a more dangerous route because that's the option left?rick_chasey said:Asylum applications
The number of asylum applications to the UK peaked in 2002 at 84,132. After that the number fell sharply to reach a twenty-year low point of 17,916 in 2010, before rising again to reach 35,737 in 2019.
The number of applications fell slightly to 29,456 applications in 2020, as the combined result of far fewer arrivals by air and an increase in arrivals by small boat across the English Channel.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01403/
tl:dr of the thread is that there isn't really "crisis"
But the graphs are interesting in and of themselves.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
It is. Just saying you'll need to be as it is highly unlikely to happen anytime soon IMO.ddraver said:"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Dont think we're ignoring it, but that's different from rejoining it. Which most people will admit is unlikely o happen anytime soon.rick_chasey said:It is a reminder that the realities of geography and geopolitics are inescapable.
UK is in Europe. It can’t just ignore the EU."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I didn't provide post Brexit stats, so they could have changed, but I doubt signigicantly.kingstongraham said:
So it feels like Brexit has had little impact either way. People still want to come here, but the enforcement efforts on previous routes have made it more visible and dangerous.TheBigBean said:kingstongraham said:
Are the overall numbers up, or are they now coming via a more dangerous route because that's the option left?rick_chasey said:Asylum applications
The number of asylum applications to the UK peaked in 2002 at 84,132. After that the number fell sharply to reach a twenty-year low point of 17,916 in 2010, before rising again to reach 35,737 in 2019.
The number of applications fell slightly to 29,456 applications in 2020, as the combined result of far fewer arrivals by air and an increase in arrivals by small boat across the English Channel.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01403/
No simple answer is there?
The boat crossings started as a result of additional security at the ports.
There is no simple answer. There never has been. Australia found one answer, but it involved highly questionable tactics.
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Oh, and I do like the new thread title. Think Goo must be able to read my mind
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo_666 said:
Oh, and I do like the new thread title. Think Goo must be able to read my mind
It's not going to go away just because you're bored with it. Britain's relationship with the continent has been evolving for centuries, and will continue to do so long after we are all dead (along with Cake Stop, probably).
Some of us might choose to stay engaged with how that relationship evolves, maybe in the hope of undoing the recent damage, sometime in the future.0 -
It won't happen at all, I can't see any time where we would be allowed to rejoin with all the benefits we had previously and if membership then was seen as unacceptable it would take a huge change from the EU to be acceptable in the future.Stevo_666 said:
We just have to get on with it, that doesn't mean we have to be happy about it. Hopefully somewhere along the line we'll have a Government that realises our negotiations are like playing poker with a pair of twos and that all the other players know that's all we have.0 -
And we're not going to rejoin just because you want to.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:Oh, and I do like the new thread title. Think Goo must be able to read my mind
It's not going to go away just because you're bored with it. Britain's relationship with the continent has been evolving for centuries, and will continue to do so long after we are all dead (along with Cake Stop, probably).
Some of us might choose to stay engaged with how that relationship evolves, maybe in the hope of undoing the recent damage, sometime in the future.
The debate might rumble on, but rejoining is highly unlikely in the foreseeable future. Better direct your energy into something that you might have a chance of changing."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The EU conditions for new joiners - adoption of the Euro, free movement etc are not exactly going to be popular with the UK electorate.Pross said:
It won't happen at all, I can't see any time where we would be allowed to rejoin with all the benefits we had previously and if membership then was seen as unacceptable it would take a huge change from the EU to be acceptable in the future.Stevo_666 said:
We just have to get on with it, that doesn't mean we have to be happy about it. Hopefully somewhere along the line we'll have a Government that realises our negotiations are like playing poker with a pair of twos and that all the other players know that's all we have.
And I'm not sure the EU would want a trouble maker (from their point of view) like the UK back.
Hence the thread title is very appropriate."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The NI Protocol will never be resolved.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Yes. And it will for a considerable period of time.
The process that is, so therefore this thread too.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
But Brexit is about the relationship with the EU. It will never go away. Not least in Northern Ireland where the gravity of needing a border somewhere will always work against the premise of the GFS compromise.Stevo_666 said:
Dont think we're ignoring it, but that's different from rejoining it. Which most people will admit is unlikely o happen anytime soon.rick_chasey said:It is a reminder that the realities of geography and geopolitics are inescapable.
UK is in Europe. It can’t just ignore the EU.0 -
The emoji suggests that the OP is surprised and disappointed that Brexit is not overStevo_666 said:
The EU conditions for new joiners - adoption of the Euro, free movement etc are not exactly going to be popular with the UK electorate.Pross said:
It won't happen at all, I can't see any time where we would be allowed to rejoin with all the benefits we had previously and if membership then was seen as unacceptable it would take a huge change from the EU to be acceptable in the future.Stevo_666 said:
We just have to get on with it, that doesn't mean we have to be happy about it. Hopefully somewhere along the line we'll have a Government that realises our negotiations are like playing poker with a pair of twos and that all the other players know that's all we have.
And I'm not sure the EU would want a trouble maker (from their point of view) like the UK back.
Hence the thread title is very appropriate.0 -
Might wanna tell be bbc you’re bored with it too
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One suspects if it was going swimmingly, the OP would be less surprised or disappointedsurrey_commuter said:
The emoji suggests that the OP is surprised and disappointed that Brexit is not overStevo_666 said:
The EU conditions for new joiners - adoption of the Euro, free movement etc are not exactly going to be popular with the UK electorate.Pross said:
It won't happen at all, I can't see any time where we would be allowed to rejoin with all the benefits we had previously and if membership then was seen as unacceptable it would take a huge change from the EU to be acceptable in the future.Stevo_666 said:
We just have to get on with it, that doesn't mean we have to be happy about it. Hopefully somewhere along the line we'll have a Government that realises our negotiations are like playing poker with a pair of twos and that all the other players know that's all we have.
And I'm not sure the EU would want a trouble maker (from their point of view) like the UK back.
Hence the thread title is very appropriate.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
The article misrepresents the numbers returned under the Dublin agreement.rick_chasey said:Might wanna tell be bbc you’re bored with it too
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/what-is-the-dublin-iii-regulation-will-it-be-affected-by-brexit/How many incoming and outgoing transfers are there under Dublin III?
According to Home Office figures, between 2015 and 2018, 7,365 incoming requests were made to transfer people into the UK under the Dublin regulation, from which 2,365 people were transferred to the UK (some requests may still be pending).
This means that the UK accepted around 33% of requests. During the same period, the UK made 18,953 outgoing requests to transfer people to other Member States, from which 1,395 people were transferred abroad. This amounts to around 7% of outgoing requests by the UK resulting in a transfer.
In 2018, the UK received a total of 37,453 asylum applications, and made 5,510 outgoing transfer requests under Dublin III. Of these 5,510 requests, 209 migrants were transferred out of the UK under Dublin III, whilst 1,215 came in, making the UK a net recipient in 2018.0 -
Brexit is done.
What we have is the new chosen reality.
It's a bit unrealistic to expect to complete the tidy unravelling of 50 years of trade policy and relationships within a year, especially so if you expected it to be immediately more straightforward.
Triply so if you expected to resolve "there needs to be a border, but it can't be in either of the places it could be".0 -
I guess my point is that after 40 years of economic integration it was not feasible for our exit to be either quick or painless. Whilst it could have been less worse it was always going to soak up several years of govt effort and have a negative impact on many businesses and individuals.ddraver said:
One suspects if it was going swimmingly, the OP would be less surprised or disappointedsurrey_commuter said:
The emoji suggests that the OP is surprised and disappointed that Brexit is not overStevo_666 said:
The EU conditions for new joiners - adoption of the Euro, free movement etc are not exactly going to be popular with the UK electorate.Pross said:
It won't happen at all, I can't see any time where we would be allowed to rejoin with all the benefits we had previously and if membership then was seen as unacceptable it would take a huge change from the EU to be acceptable in the future.Stevo_666 said:
We just have to get on with it, that doesn't mean we have to be happy about it. Hopefully somewhere along the line we'll have a Government that realises our negotiations are like playing poker with a pair of twos and that all the other players know that's all we have.
And I'm not sure the EU would want a trouble maker (from their point of view) like the UK back.
Hence the thread title is very appropriate.
This is why i have sympathy both with Theresa May and the notion that a Brexiteer needed to be PM to get it done. Whoever was in charge was going to peel back the onion and as they revealed each new level of stupidity they would have got cold feet.0 -
There doesn't need to be the sort of border everyone imagines.kingstongraham said:
Triply so if you expected to resolve "there needs to be a border, but it can't be in either of the places it could be".0 -
If it was easy it would not be a problem.TheBigBean said:
There doesn't need to be the sort of border everyone imagines.kingstongraham said:
Triply so if you expected to resolve "there needs to be a border, but it can't be in either of the places it could be".0 -
This is brexiter fantasy chat.TheBigBean said:
There doesn't need to be the sort of border everyone imagines.kingstongraham said:
Triply so if you expected to resolve "there needs to be a border, but it can't be in either of the places it could be".0 -
I've been fairly consistent on this and every month the agreed position seems to move one step closer to it.kingstongraham said:
If it was easy it would not be a problem.TheBigBean said:
There doesn't need to be the sort of border everyone imagines.kingstongraham said:
Triply so if you expected to resolve "there needs to be a border, but it can't be in either of the places it could be".0 -
Why do you think that?TheBigBean said:
I've been fairly consistent on this and every month the agreed position seems to move one step closer to it.kingstongraham said:
If it was easy it would not be a problem.TheBigBean said:
There doesn't need to be the sort of border everyone imagines.kingstongraham said:
Triply so if you expected to resolve "there needs to be a border, but it can't be in either of the places it could be".“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
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It is only the EUs rigid stupidity that results in a border somewhere either in the Irish sea or on Ireland. The gfa gives those in Ireland the right to free movement across the Irish border anyway. All checks on illegals can therefore be done on entry to Ireland or the UK as they do currently. Once on Ireland simple spot checks remove the illegals. This is the uniques aspect to Ireland that is not common.rick_chasey said:
This is brexiter fantasy chat.TheBigBean said:
There doesn't need to be the sort of border everyone imagines.kingstongraham said:
Triply so if you expected to resolve "there needs to be a border, but it can't be in either of the places it could be".
Goods are even easier with essentially audits of businesses. Those that fail to cply with the law get caught and go bust with fines. The failure of the EU to allow this is just a power play to try to boost trade within Ireland and reunify it. Their plan might work if there was not the reverse of the IRA still in Northern Ireland.0
