Forum home Road cycling forum The cake stop

BREXIT - I Think We Need Some Lorry Drivers 🇪🇺 🚛🚛

1180218031805180718081842

Posts

  • ddraverddraver Posts: 23,211
    Digital Tacho cards have made it really very hard to cheat these days. The next step (which is apparently very close to being implemented in CH) is to have tachos that upload to the police automatically so if you go over hours, your bill gets home before you do.

    (As opposed to now where you need to be pulled over within the 28 (?) days)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ProssPross Posts: 29,619
    Hauliers now claiming they need 100,000 drivers which feels excessive when there are currently only around 300,000 in total in the UK.
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 7,625
    Pross said:

    Hauliers now claiming they need 100,000 drivers which feels excessive when there are currently only around 300,000 in total in the UK.


    Well, I guess if you've got too many for the jobs going, you can keep wages down.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 23,211
    I guess there are backlogs to clear (although I'm not sure how that works exactly 🤔)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 16,674
    Boris being urged to save Christmas

    Comes round earlier every year
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 7,625

    Boris being urged to save Christmas

    Comes round earlier every year

    Turkeys hoping no-one votes for Boris.
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 7,625
    edited 25 September
    ddraver said:

    Maybe the answer is to have a state haulage company, so we don't have to rely on these pesky private haulage companies who are trying to minimise labour costs.

    Maybe we need a five-year plan, and collective farms too, to ensure there are enough turkeys to vote for Christmas every year.

    Will Chairman Boris have the courage?
  • Question I have with the 5000 Visa's is who would want to take them up?

    Certainly not EU based truck drivers.

    Continental Europe also has a shortage of truck drivers, albeit not as acute as the UK.

    If you go for a UK Visa so you can look at UK work, there will be paperwork, there will be costs, it will be valid for 6 months only. Once you've gone through the faff of doing all that you're pretty much locked into working in the UK for that time at which point you'll be told to clear off.

    If you want to pick up work in the EU then no paperwork, you can freely move across an entire continent, no time limit, seamlessly picking work from home or abroad depending on what the best option for your earnings / life situation.

    The only real perk we can offer over the rest of Europe is pay, which our economy isn't really in the health to sustain.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,376 Lives Here
    If pay was the issue there wouldn’t have been a spike in retirees.
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 7,625
    Two thirds (67%) of voters believe the government has handled the crisis badly, according to a new Opinium poll for the Observer. Even a majority of Conservative voters (59%) thought that the government had responded badly. The majority (68%) said Brexit was partly to blame, including 88% of Remain voters and 52% of Leave voters.


    Crisis, what crisis?

    Maybe reality is starting to dawn.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/sep/25/european-lorry-drivers-will-not-want-to-come-to-uk-warn-haulage-chiefs
  • It's just as well this issue can only apply to lorry drivers and chicken pluckers.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,376 Lives Here
    One day retired boomers will work out someone has to do the work.
  • ProssPross Posts: 29,619

    Two thirds (67%) of voters believe the government has handled the crisis badly, according to a new Opinium poll for the Observer. Even a majority of Conservative voters (59%) thought that the government had responded badly. The majority (68%) said Brexit was partly to blame, including 88% of Remain voters and 52% of Leave voters.


    Crisis, what crisis?

    Maybe reality is starting to dawn.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/sep/25/european-lorry-drivers-will-not-want-to-come-to-uk-warn-haulage-chiefs
    #80seatmajority

  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,376 Lives Here
    Lol shout out for the flag. I mean it, retired people don’t work, but they still want to spend their money on things. Who’s gonna do it?
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 16,811
    Strange thing today out on the bike. I passed loads of garages. No queues and no signs saying sold out. Muppets must feel silly. I hope so.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 16,674
    Not much discussion of the demand side of the equation

    Time spent at border checks and lack of cabotage flexibility increasing demand for drivers as operations become less efficient?
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • loltorideloltoride Posts: 439
    His guess was they have switched to the home delivery sector.

    100% agree with this and to add to this:

    1. The Larger Logistics Firms have been slowly converting permanent staff to contractors which reduces employee benefits etc.
    2. I can only remember once in the last 10 years when we have not had record profits whilst consistently looking at reducing costs. This is generally passed on to drivers so you end up with drivers working longer hours and doing more work for less or similar pay who would accept that if you have choices.
    3. Contracted drivers hardly ever get a payrise but permanent staff do every year, so you have warehouse staff on similar salaries to skilled drivers.
    4. An example a number of courier companies would pay their contract drivers per parcel now this is per drop or collection. So instead of earning £0.50p per parcel they could collect 10 parcels from 1 site and only earn £0.50p now.

    I really do believe the working conditions and pay are one the biggest factors, the short term fix government is suggesting I don't believe will do anything. The drivers work so hard they should be paid right, there has been a race to the bottom with courier firms to secure these ecommerce contracts which are extremely profitable.

    I personally can't see any change until we start doing right by all our staff, I could go on for hours the list is endless.

    So Far!
  • loltorideloltoride Posts: 439

    ddraver said:

    I was told by someone today that there's a serious shortage of HGV drivers across Europe too, to the tune of about 500,000. No idea if it is correct, but was from someone sensible. His guess was they have switched to the home delivery sector.

    I have no real source for this but from my brief rub up against home delivery driving, no qualified HGV driver would choose home delivery over trucks.

    Zero Hours/ "self" employed (lol) delivery driving is a genuine scandal waiting to happen.
    Are the supermarket delivery drivers on zero hours contracts? I have no idea.
    I imagine a significant number of the amazon / DPD / Hermes types are though.
    There is a mixture of zero hours and permanent for supermarkets but they have been changing a lot of employees to permanent this last year. Zero Hours workers are normally offered a minimum of 16 hours per week.
    So Far!
  • Dorset_BoyDorset_Boy Posts: 4,358

    Lol shout out for the flag. I mean it, retired people don’t work, but they still want to spend their money on things. Who’s gonna do it?

    You constantly conveniently forget that those who are retired will have done 40-50 years of work, paid taxes and NI during those periods, and you are deliberately condescending towards and disrepectful of that.

    Small wonder your post was flagged.
    There really isn't any need to be so antagonistic towards older generations, it just isn't helpful to anyone.

  • ddraverddraver Posts: 23,211


    You constantly conveniently forget that those who are retired will have done 40-50 years of work, paid taxes and NI during those periods, and you are deliberately condescending towards and disrepectful of that.

    So if there's no money for them now, doesn't that suggest they should have paid a little more?

    Doing 40 - 50 years of work over life and paying the tax you owe isnt really that special. It's kind of the bare minimum.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 16,674
    Interesting that referring to EU workers coming to the UK as 'scabs' doesn't get flagged.



    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • Dorset_BoyDorset_Boy Posts: 4,358
    ddraver said:


    You constantly conveniently forget that those who are retired will have done 40-50 years of work, paid taxes and NI during those periods, and you are deliberately condescending towards and disrepectful of that.

    So if there's no money for them now, doesn't that suggest they should have paid a little more?

    Doing 40 - 50 years of work over life and paying the tax you owe isnt really that special. It's kind of the bare minimum.
    One of the biggest issues was the way Labour coked up setting up the State Pension - making it a system where the NI contributions paid for those in retirement only could work if life expectancy never increased.

    When the State Pension was set up after WW2, male life expectancy was c64. It is now well into the 80s.

    The other issue is the black hole that is the NHS.

    Rick's attitude to older generations is that they deserve nothing because the don't work, forgetting the facts.

  • Interesting that referring to EU workers coming to the UK as 'scabs' doesn't get flagged.



    I assumed he is joking
  • ddraver said:


    You constantly conveniently forget that those who are retired will have done 40-50 years of work, paid taxes and NI during those periods, and you are deliberately condescending towards and disrepectful of that.

    So if there's no money for them now, doesn't that suggest they should have paid a little more?

    Doing 40 - 50 years of work over life and paying the tax you owe isnt really that special. It's kind of the bare minimum.
    One of the biggest issues was the way Labour coked up setting up the State Pension - making it a system where the NI contributions paid for those in retirement only could work if life expectancy never increased.

    When the State Pension was set up after WW2, male life expectancy was c64. It is now well into the 80s.

    The other issue is the black hole that is the NHS.

    Rick's attitude to older generations is that they deserve nothing because the don't work, forgetting the facts.

    ddraver said:


    You constantly conveniently forget that those who are retired will have done 40-50 years of work, paid taxes and NI during those periods, and you are deliberately condescending towards and disrepectful of that.

    So if there's no money for them now, doesn't that suggest they should have paid a little more?

    Doing 40 - 50 years of work over life and paying the tax you owe isnt really that special. It's kind of the bare minimum.
    One of the biggest issues was the way Labour coked up setting up the State Pension - making it a system where the NI contributions paid for those in retirement only could work if life expectancy never increased.

    When the State Pension was set up after WW2, male life expectancy was c64. It is now well into the 80s.

    The other issue is the black hole that is the NHS.

    Rick's attitude to older generations is that they deserve nothing because the don't work, forgetting the facts.

    An interesting mix of correct and incorrect facts but I think I get your point.

    Not sure what Rick’s point is but it may be about entitlement because people have paid in.

    So my back of a censored packet calculation is that a triple lock gold plated pension of £9kpa from age 65 would probably cost you £400,000.

    I have no idea how NI notionally allocates money but even if you were on £100k a year you would only be paying £6k a year which might get you there.

    So they may be entitled to a pension but virtually nobody has fully paid for it
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,761
    edited 26 September

    ddraver said:


    You constantly conveniently forget that those who are retired will have done 40-50 years of work, paid taxes and NI during those periods, and you are deliberately condescending towards and disrepectful of that.

    So if there's no money for them now, doesn't that suggest they should have paid a little more?

    Doing 40 - 50 years of work over life and paying the tax you owe isnt really that special. It's kind of the bare minimum.
    One of the biggest issues was the way Labour coked up setting up the State Pension - making it a system where the NI contributions paid for those in retirement only could work if life expectancy never increased.

    When the State Pension was set up after WW2, male life expectancy was c64. It is now well into the 80s.

    The other issue is the black hole that is the NHS.

    Rick's attitude to older generations is that they deserve nothing because the don't work, forgetting the facts.

    ddraver said:


    You constantly conveniently forget that those who are retired will have done 40-50 years of work, paid taxes and NI during those periods, and you are deliberately condescending towards and disrepectful of that.

    So if there's no money for them now, doesn't that suggest they should have paid a little more?

    Doing 40 - 50 years of work over life and paying the tax you owe isnt really that special. It's kind of the bare minimum.
    One of the biggest issues was the way Labour coked up setting up the State Pension - making it a system where the NI contributions paid for those in retirement only could work if life expectancy never increased.

    When the State Pension was set up after WW2, male life expectancy was c64. It is now well into the 80s.

    The other issue is the black hole that is the NHS.

    Rick's attitude to older generations is that they deserve nothing because the don't work, forgetting the facts.

    An interesting mix of correct and incorrect facts but I think I get your point.

    Not sure what Rick’s point is but it may be about entitlement because people have paid in.

    So my back of a censored packet calculation is that a triple lock gold plated pension of £9kpa from age 65 would probably cost you £400,000.

    I have no idea how NI notionally allocates money but even if you were on £100k a year you would only be paying £6k a year which might get you there.

    So they may be entitled to a pension but virtually nobody has fully paid for it
    I really wish we would all stop pretending that people paying NI are paying into *their* pension.

    The only question is whether there are enough tax receipts to cover current old age benefits bill.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • Dorset_BoyDorset_Boy Posts: 4,358
    NI was originally segregated, but hasn't been for a long time.
    RJST: You are correct to say that NI conts aren't going towards that individual's pension, and that is because of the way the post war Labour government set up the system.

    SC: I think you're about £120k over estimating the value of the pot required, but it certainly is a decent sum.
  • pblakeney said:

    Strange thing today out on the bike. I passed loads of garages. No queues and no signs saying sold out. Muppets must feel silly. I hope so.

    Drove out to Leith Hill from Kingston. Every petrol station we passed had massive queues except one that had a sign saying "no unleaded".

    It was causing traffic jams at the hook junction with the a3 and at the leatherhead roundabout near Box Hill. It's crazy out there.

  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,376 Lives Here
    edited 26 September
    Stuff doesn’t magic out of nowhere. Someone had to produce it. You can’t buy it if no one is producing anything because everyone is retired.

    I’m not talking about your pension. The world doesn’t go around without people working. It’s not about entitlement. It’s about demographics and who’s gonna be doing the work with an oversized part retired population.

    The irony is there was a big spike of retirements in the lorry industry which had compounded the problem.

    Passed 3 petrol stations on various outings / bike rides. They’d all run out of petrol. Ha. Nation of mugs.
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 7,625
    edited 26 September

    pblakeney said:

    Strange thing today out on the bike. I passed loads of garages. No queues and no signs saying sold out. Muppets must feel silly. I hope so.

    Drove out to Leith Hill from Kingston. Every petrol station we passed had massive queues except one that had a sign saying "no unleaded".

    It was causing traffic jams at the hook junction with the a3 and at the leatherhead roundabout near Box Hill. It's crazy out there.


    I bet you if you quizzed most of those drivers, each one would deny they are panic buying, but would come up with some reason why they had to queue to fill their tank to the top today.
Sign In or Register to comment.