BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

rjsterry

surrey_commuter said:

Dorset_Boy said:

surrey_commuter said:

Dorset_Boy said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

webboo said:

rick_chasey said:

Yikes. You learn something every day.

I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.

If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.

Charming. Don't take it so seriously :P

the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticks

My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.

You haven't seen many former farmworkers houses then?

Of course he hasn't. It's patently obvious from his comments that he's never been outside an urban area, and never encountered mud.

he lives in the Fens

He lives in Cambridge, and gives the impression he doesn't like leaving the urban areas, unless in a train or in a car! He'd probably collapse in shock and panic if he went to the rural parts of the fens.

I am struggling to think of Cambridge as non-rural

Um, OK.

briantrumpet said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

webboo said:

rick_chasey said:

Yikes. You learn something every day.

I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.

If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.

Charming. Don't take it so seriously :P

the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticks

My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.

And if you want to complain that UK infrastructure is sometimes poor, I give you:

Can't even stand the poles up straight.

webboo

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

Dorset_Boy said:

surrey_commuter said:

Dorset_Boy said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

webboo said:

rick_chasey said:

Yikes. You learn something every day.

I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.

If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.

Charming. Don't take it so seriously :P

the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticks

My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.

You haven't seen many former farmworkers houses then?

Of course he hasn't. It's patently obvious from his comments that he's never been outside an urban area, and never encountered mud.

he lives in the Fens

He lives in Cambridge, and gives the impression he doesn't like leaving the urban areas, unless in a train or in a car! He'd probably collapse in shock and panic if he went to the rural parts of the fens.

I am struggling to think of Cambridge as non-rural

It is literally a city

So is St David’s in Wales and you won’t get more rural than there.

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

Dorset_Boy said:

surrey_commuter said:

Dorset_Boy said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

webboo said:

rick_chasey said:

Yikes. You learn something every day.

I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.

If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.

Charming. Don't take it so seriously :P

the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticks

My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.

You haven't seen many former farmworkers houses then?

Of course he hasn't. It's patently obvious from his comments that he's never been outside an urban area, and never encountered mud.

he lives in the Fens

He lives in Cambridge, and gives the impression he doesn't like leaving the urban areas, unless in a train or in a car! He'd probably collapse in shock and panic if he went to the rural parts of the fens.

I am struggling to think of Cambridge as non-rural

It is literally a city

Ely is literally a city

Dorset_Boy

surrey_commuter said:

Dorset_Boy said:

surrey_commuter said:

Dorset_Boy said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

webboo said:

rick_chasey said:

Yikes. You learn something every day.

I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.

If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.

Charming. Don't take it so seriously :P

the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticks

My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.

You haven't seen many former farmworkers houses then?

Of course he hasn't. It's patently obvious from his comments that he's never been outside an urban area, and never encountered mud.

he lives in the Fens

He lives in Cambridge, and gives the impression he doesn't like leaving the urban areas, unless in a train or in a car! He'd probably collapse in shock and panic if he went to the rural parts of the fens.

I am struggling to think of Cambridge as non-rural

If Cambridge is rural then other than London, Bristol, Birmingham, Sheffield, Manchester and Liverpool, everywhere in the country is rural, which is patent nonsense.

Large towns of 50-100,000+ are not rural.

briantrumpet

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

Dorset_Boy said:

surrey_commuter said:

Dorset_Boy said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

webboo said:

rick_chasey said:

Yikes. You learn something every day.

I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.

If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.

Charming. Don't take it so seriously :P

the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticks

My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.

You haven't seen many former farmworkers houses then?

Of course he hasn't. It's patently obvious from his comments that he's never been outside an urban area, and never encountered mud.

he lives in the Fens

He lives in Cambridge, and gives the impression he doesn't like leaving the urban areas, unless in a train or in a car! He'd probably collapse in shock and panic if he went to the rural parts of the fens.

I am struggling to think of Cambridge as non-rural

Um, OK.

briantrumpet said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

webboo said:

rick_chasey said:

Yikes. You learn something every day.

I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.

If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.

Charming. Don't take it so seriously :P

the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticks

My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.

And if you want to complain that UK infrastructure is sometimes poor, I give you:

Can't even stand the poles up straight.

France is, quite literally, giving up on wired telephones. No wonder, when they look like this. And their electricity wiring is hardly less 'artistic': they just string everything up on poles, willy-nilly, and hope it stays up. It doesn't, a lot of the time.

Pross

Dorset_Boy said:

surrey_commuter said:

Dorset_Boy said:

surrey_commuter said:

Dorset_Boy said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

webboo said:

rick_chasey said:

Yikes. You learn something every day.

I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.

If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.

Charming. Don't take it so seriously :P

the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticks

My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.

You haven't seen many former farmworkers houses then?

Of course he hasn't. It's patently obvious from his comments that he's never been outside an urban area, and never encountered mud.

he lives in the Fens

He lives in Cambridge, and gives the impression he doesn't like leaving the urban areas, unless in a train or in a car! He'd probably collapse in shock and panic if he went to the rural parts of the fens.

I am struggling to think of Cambridge as non-rural

If Cambridge is rural then other than London, Bristol, Birmingham, Sheffield, Manchester and Liverpool, everywhere in the country is rural, which is patent nonsense.

Large towns of 50-100,000+ are not rural.

Leeds and about 40 other towns and cities are upset at this comment

john80

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

I'm just waiting for Stevo to say that he's got plenty of gas for his boiler.

Funnily enough, the house we're buying has oil fired central heating and no gas (house buying attempt #2 after the last one fell through).

Oh mate, don't do it! I couldn't tell you how long I've listened to people whine about how much faff that is.

not so much the faff as the cost!!!! I would ask to see a few years delivery receipts

Honestly, I have never heard so much whining from people about oil fired houses.

Christ alive. The regular days off to take delivery. The general maintenance. Running out of oil before the season is over. Delays in oil delivery. My favourite, the "my house is so big it's so much to heat. Oi, can you do that work so I can deliver it to the client and charge the next fee which i get 50% off and you none".

Honestly Stevo, don't do it.

We replaced a oil boiler and tank a few years ago like for like. There is a tank gauge so you know where you are with quantity and I have never had to wait more than say 7 days for a fill. It is a pretty cheap way to heat a house and if serviced yearly is pretty reliable for say the 10 year boiler life. In rural places with no gas it is a no brainer in terms of cost. The only thing that could possibly beat it is if you can bring your probably old house up to modern regs for both air changes and insulation and have room to install substantial solar then a air source heat pump might work.

This is not actually as difficult as you imply, especially if you are doing some renovation work anyway as many do when moving into somewhere new. And the PV is not essential - just a good way to offset the cost of running the heat pump.

In my case it would require a re-roof of the existing house to change the membrane under the tiles as this is on the way out and needs done in the next ten years anyway then install a modern amount of insulation in the voids. I would probably have to go round each room of the old house and apply insulated plasterboard as adding the insulation to the external walls would probably not work with the minimal tile overlap at the eaves. Good few thousand there. I might as well stick with oil.

The point about solar is the cost of electricity is pretty high at the minute. Heat pumps are often 10kw plus appliances and run a fair amount of the winter. Without any self generation this is going to get a lot more expensive than oil. I use about £600 or 1400 litres of oil a year to heat the house. Adding the new extension will hopefully reduce this a bit as I replaced a very drafty building but we will use more electricity as we have a electric aga in the kitchen that gives some heat load to the house.

webboo

Dorset_Boy said:

surrey_commuter said:

Dorset_Boy said:

surrey_commuter said:

Dorset_Boy said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

webboo said:

rick_chasey said:

Yikes. You learn something every day.

I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.

If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.

Charming. Don't take it so seriously :P

the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticks

My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.

You haven't seen many former farmworkers houses then?

Of course he hasn't. It's patently obvious from his comments that he's never been outside an urban area, and never encountered mud.

he lives in the Fens

He lives in Cambridge, and gives the impression he doesn't like leaving the urban areas, unless in a train or in a car! He'd probably collapse in shock and panic if he went to the rural parts of the fens.

I am struggling to think of Cambridge as non-rural

If Cambridge is rural then other than London, Bristol, Birmingham, Sheffield, Manchester and Liverpool, everywhere in the country is rural, which is patent nonsense.

Large towns of 50-100,000+ are not rural.

There are 46 towns and cities in the UK with larger populations than Cambridge.

Dorset_Boy

webboo said:

Dorset_Boy said:

surrey_commuter said:

Dorset_Boy said:

surrey_commuter said:

Dorset_Boy said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

webboo said:

rick_chasey said:

Yikes. You learn something every day.

I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.

If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.

Charming. Don't take it so seriously :P

the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticks

My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.

You haven't seen many former farmworkers houses then?

Of course he hasn't. It's patently obvious from his comments that he's never been outside an urban area, and never encountered mud.

he lives in the Fens

He lives in Cambridge, and gives the impression he doesn't like leaving the urban areas, unless in a train or in a car! He'd probably collapse in shock and panic if he went to the rural parts of the fens.

I am struggling to think of Cambridge as non-rural

If Cambridge is rural then other than London, Bristol, Birmingham, Sheffield, Manchester and Liverpool, everywhere in the country is rural, which is patent nonsense.

Large towns of 50-100,000+ are not rural.

There are 46 towns and cities in the UK with larger populations than Cambridge.

Interesting stat and backs up my point.

pblakeney

I think for some "rural" means outside the M25.

elbowloh

pblakeney said:

I think for some "rural" means outside the M25.

There are some fairly rural places inside the M25 still

pblakeney

elbowloh said:

pblakeney said:

I think for some "rural" means outside the M25.

There are some fairly rural places inside the M25 still

Yeahbut everything outside is rural. 😉

rjsterry

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

Dorset_Boy said:

surrey_commuter said:

Dorset_Boy said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

webboo said:

rick_chasey said:

Yikes. You learn something every day.

I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.

If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.

Charming. Don't take it so seriously :P

the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticks

My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.

You haven't seen many former farmworkers houses then?

Of course he hasn't. It's patently obvious from his comments that he's never been outside an urban area, and never encountered mud.

he lives in the Fens

He lives in Cambridge, and gives the impression he doesn't like leaving the urban areas, unless in a train or in a car! He'd probably collapse in shock and panic if he went to the rural parts of the fens.

I am struggling to think of Cambridge as non-rural

It is literally a city

Ely is literally a city

And is also not rural. The bits around it are, but towns and cities are definitely not rural.

rjsterry

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

I'm just waiting for Stevo to say that he's got plenty of gas for his boiler.

Funnily enough, the house we're buying has oil fired central heating and no gas (house buying attempt #2 after the last one fell through).

Oh mate, don't do it! I couldn't tell you how long I've listened to people whine about how much faff that is.

not so much the faff as the cost!!!! I would ask to see a few years delivery receipts

Honestly, I have never heard so much whining from people about oil fired houses.

Christ alive. The regular days off to take delivery. The general maintenance. Running out of oil before the season is over. Delays in oil delivery. My favourite, the "my house is so big it's so much to heat. Oi, can you do that work so I can deliver it to the client and charge the next fee which i get 50% off and you none".

Honestly Stevo, don't do it.

We replaced a oil boiler and tank a few years ago like for like. There is a tank gauge so you know where you are with quantity and I have never had to wait more than say 7 days for a fill. It is a pretty cheap way to heat a house and if serviced yearly is pretty reliable for say the 10 year boiler life. In rural places with no gas it is a no brainer in terms of cost. The only thing that could possibly beat it is if you can bring your probably old house up to modern regs for both air changes and insulation and have room to install substantial solar then a air source heat pump might work.

This is not actually as difficult as you imply, especially if you are doing some renovation work anyway as many do when moving into somewhere new. And the PV is not essential - just a good way to offset the cost of running the heat pump.

In my case it would require a re-roof of the existing house to change the membrane under the tiles as this is on the way out and needs done in the next ten years anyway then install a modern amount of insulation in the voids. I would probably have to go round each room of the old house and apply insulated plasterboard as adding the insulation to the external walls would probably not work with the minimal tile overlap at the eaves. Good few thousand there. I might as well stick with oil.

The point about solar is the cost of electricity is pretty high at the minute. Heat pumps are often 10kw plus appliances and run a fair amount of the winter. Without any self generation this is going to get a lot more expensive than oil. I use about £600 or 1400 litres of oil a year to heat the house. Adding the new extension will hopefully reduce this a bit as I replaced a very drafty building but we will use more electricity as we have a electric aga in the kitchen that gives some heat load to the house.

Save us from f***ing insulated plasterboard. The Devil's own building material. If you have solid walls, it can trap moisture on the inside of the masonry where it condenses (the insulation keeps the heat inside, so the wall actually gets colder moving the dew point inwards). Condensation inside a solid wall is not good. If you were to go for internal wall insulation, go for something vapour permeable. But external insulation is safer and easier to install.

If you are re-roofing, extending the eaves to cover external wall insulation is not a big extra cost. Yes, as a standalone project, getting your house from an EPC grade D or E up to something close to Passivhaus is of course a big job but as part of general refurbishment - e.g. roof needed doing anyway - the extra over is more manageable. And as you say, you can tackle the job a bit at a time by sorting the most draughty bits first. And you don't need to go full Passivhaus for an ASHP to work; just enough so that slightly oversized radiators running at lower surface temperature can do the job. We've also done a few projects where a smaller ASHP is backed up by a wood burner or gas boiler (or could be oil) for just those really cold days when the ASHP would be flat out.

rjsterry

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

Dorset_Boy said:

surrey_commuter said:

Dorset_Boy said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

webboo said:

rick_chasey said:

Yikes. You learn something every day.

I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.

If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.

Charming. Don't take it so seriously :P

the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticks

My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.

You haven't seen many former farmworkers houses then?

Of course he hasn't. It's patently obvious from his comments that he's never been outside an urban area, and never encountered mud.

he lives in the Fens

He lives in Cambridge, and gives the impression he doesn't like leaving the urban areas, unless in a train or in a car! He'd probably collapse in shock and panic if he went to the rural parts of the fens.

I am struggling to think of Cambridge as non-rural

Um, OK.

briantrumpet said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

webboo said:

rick_chasey said:

Yikes. You learn something every day.

I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.

If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.

Charming. Don't take it so seriously :P

the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticks

My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.

And if you want to complain that UK infrastructure is sometimes poor, I give you:

Can't even stand the poles up straight.

France is, quite literally, giving up on wired telephones. No wonder, when they look like this. And their electricity wiring is hardly less 'artistic': they just string everything up on poles, willy-nilly, and hope it stays up. It doesn't, a lot of the time.

You can see why a lot of places have gone straight to mobile.

elbowloh

I'm disgusted.

Not only was there a German and an Italian on the new series of the Great British Bake Off, but the German also won star baker this week.

Brexit means Brexit.

briantrumpet

rjsterry said:

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

Dorset_Boy said:

surrey_commuter said:

Dorset_Boy said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

webboo said:

rick_chasey said:

Yikes. You learn something every day.

I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.

If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.

Charming. Don't take it so seriously :P

the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticks

My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.

You haven't seen many former farmworkers houses then?

Of course he hasn't. It's patently obvious from his comments that he's never been outside an urban area, and never encountered mud.

he lives in the Fens

He lives in Cambridge, and gives the impression he doesn't like leaving the urban areas, unless in a train or in a car! He'd probably collapse in shock and panic if he went to the rural parts of the fens.

I am struggling to think of Cambridge as non-rural

Um, OK.

briantrumpet said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

webboo said:

rick_chasey said:

Yikes. You learn something every day.

I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.

If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.

Charming. Don't take it so seriously :P

the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticks

My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.

And if you want to complain that UK infrastructure is sometimes poor, I give you:

Can't even stand the poles up straight.

France is, quite literally, giving up on wired telephones. No wonder, when they look like this. And their electricity wiring is hardly less 'artistic': they just string everything up on poles, willy-nilly, and hope it stays up. It doesn't, a lot of the time.

You can see why a lot of places have gone straight to mobile.

It's going to be fibre, mobile or satellite. To be fair, they are doing quite a good job of getting fibre to quite rural locations. France is paying the price now for the Napoleonic drive to establish small communities dotted all over the place to exploit the smallest and remotest tracts of land that could be coaxed into food production. Now they have to bite the bullet and service those tiny communities in hard-to-reach places, or let them die. England, in comparison, is one big metropolis: there's nowhere actually remote.

kingstongraham

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1440392624511225857?s=19

TheBigBean

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

I'm just waiting for Stevo to say that he's got plenty of gas for his boiler.

Funnily enough, the house we're buying has oil fired central heating and no gas (house buying attempt #2 after the last one fell through).

Oh mate, don't do it! I couldn't tell you how long I've listened to people whine about how much faff that is.

not so much the faff as the cost!!!! I would ask to see a few years delivery receipts

Honestly, I have never heard so much whining from people about oil fired houses.

Christ alive. The regular days off to take delivery. The general maintenance. Running out of oil before the season is over. Delays in oil delivery. My favourite, the "my house is so big it's so much to heat. Oi, can you do that work so I can deliver it to the client and charge the next fee which i get 50% off and you none".

Honestly Stevo, don't do it.

We replaced a oil boiler and tank a few years ago like for like. There is a tank gauge so you know where you are with quantity and I have never had to wait more than say 7 days for a fill. It is a pretty cheap way to heat a house and if serviced yearly is pretty reliable for say the 10 year boiler life. In rural places with no gas it is a no brainer in terms of cost. The only thing that could possibly beat it is if you can bring your probably old house up to modern regs for both air changes and insulation and have room to install substantial solar then a air source heat pump might work.

This is not actually as difficult as you imply, especially if you are doing some renovation work anyway as many do when moving into somewhere new. And the PV is not essential - just a good way to offset the cost of running the heat pump.

In my case it would require a re-roof of the existing house to change the membrane under the tiles as this is on the way out and needs done in the next ten years anyway then install a modern amount of insulation in the voids. I would probably have to go round each room of the old house and apply insulated plasterboard as adding the insulation to the external walls would probably not work with the minimal tile overlap at the eaves. Good few thousand there. I might as well stick with oil.

The point about solar is the cost of electricity is pretty high at the minute. Heat pumps are often 10kw plus appliances and run a fair amount of the winter. Without any self generation this is going to get a lot more expensive than oil. I use about £600 or 1400 litres of oil a year to heat the house. Adding the new extension will hopefully reduce this a bit as I replaced a very drafty building but we will use more electricity as we have a electric aga in the kitchen that gives some heat load to the house.

Save us from f***ing insulated plasterboard. The Devil's own building material. If you have solid walls, it can trap moisture on the inside of the masonry where it condenses (the insulation keeps the heat inside, so the wall actually gets colder moving the dew point inwards). Condensation inside a solid wall is not good. If you were to go for internal wall insulation, go for something vapour permeable. But external insulation is safer and easier to install.

If you are re-roofing, extending the eaves to cover external wall insulation is not a big extra cost. Yes, as a standalone project, getting your house from an EPC grade D or E up to something close to Passivhaus is of course a big job but as part of general refurbishment - e.g. roof needed doing anyway - the extra over is more manageable. And as you say, you can tackle the job a bit at a time by sorting the most draughty bits first. And you don't need to go full Passivhaus for an ASHP to work; just enough so that slightly oversized radiators running at lower surface temperature can do the job. We've also done a few projects where a smaller ASHP is backed up by a wood burner or gas boiler (or could be oil) for just those really cold days when the ASHP would be flat out.

Why isn't it a two stage process? Firstly do the insulation and keep the oil boiler. Secondly, when the boiler needs replacing, think about alternatives. I've never really liked the way that marketing for heat pumps seems to take credit for the insulation it requires.

john80

My sister has an ashp in her new build but in Scotland there are a large number of loans and energy subsidies that make this not a million miles off the cost of a gas system. I don't think these subsidies or loans are available in england for the time being.

surrey_commuter

john80 said:

My sister has an ashp in her new build but in Scotland there are a large number of loans and energy subsidies that make this not a million miles off the cost of a gas system. I don't think these subsidies or loans are available in england for the time being.

In Scotland the subsidies are paid from English taxation. In England it would seem like madness to incur the admin costs of taxation and subsidies to redistribute people's own money to themselves.

rjsterry

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

I'm just waiting for Stevo to say that he's got plenty of gas for his boiler.

Funnily enough, the house we're buying has oil fired central heating and no gas (house buying attempt #2 after the last one fell through).

Oh mate, don't do it! I couldn't tell you how long I've listened to people whine about how much faff that is.

not so much the faff as the cost!!!! I would ask to see a few years delivery receipts

Honestly, I have never heard so much whining from people about oil fired houses.

Christ alive. The regular days off to take delivery. The general maintenance. Running out of oil before the season is over. Delays in oil delivery. My favourite, the "my house is so big it's so much to heat. Oi, can you do that work so I can deliver it to the client and charge the next fee which i get 50% off and you none".

Honestly Stevo, don't do it.

We replaced a oil boiler and tank a few years ago like for like. There is a tank gauge so you know where you are with quantity and I have never had to wait more than say 7 days for a fill. It is a pretty cheap way to heat a house and if serviced yearly is pretty reliable for say the 10 year boiler life. In rural places with no gas it is a no brainer in terms of cost. The only thing that could possibly beat it is if you can bring your probably old house up to modern regs for both air changes and insulation and have room to install substantial solar then a air source heat pump might work.

This is not actually as difficult as you imply, especially if you are doing some renovation work anyway as many do when moving into somewhere new. And the PV is not essential - just a good way to offset the cost of running the heat pump.

In my case it would require a re-roof of the existing house to change the membrane under the tiles as this is on the way out and needs done in the next ten years anyway then install a modern amount of insulation in the voids. I would probably have to go round each room of the old house and apply insulated plasterboard as adding the insulation to the external walls would probably not work with the minimal tile overlap at the eaves. Good few thousand there. I might as well stick with oil.

The point about solar is the cost of electricity is pretty high at the minute. Heat pumps are often 10kw plus appliances and run a fair amount of the winter. Without any self generation this is going to get a lot more expensive than oil. I use about £600 or 1400 litres of oil a year to heat the house. Adding the new extension will hopefully reduce this a bit as I replaced a very drafty building but we will use more electricity as we have a electric aga in the kitchen that gives some heat load to the house.

Save us from f***ing insulated plasterboard. The Devil's own building material. If you have solid walls, it can trap moisture on the inside of the masonry where it condenses (the insulation keeps the heat inside, so the wall actually gets colder moving the dew point inwards). Condensation inside a solid wall is not good. If you were to go for internal wall insulation, go for something vapour permeable. But external insulation is safer and easier to install.

If you are re-roofing, extending the eaves to cover external wall insulation is not a big extra cost. Yes, as a standalone project, getting your house from an EPC grade D or E up to something close to Passivhaus is of course a big job but as part of general refurbishment - e.g. roof needed doing anyway - the extra over is more manageable. And as you say, you can tackle the job a bit at a time by sorting the most draughty bits first. And you don't need to go full Passivhaus for an ASHP to work; just enough so that slightly oversized radiators running at lower surface temperature can do the job. We've also done a few projects where a smaller ASHP is backed up by a wood burner or gas boiler (or could be oil) for just those really cold days when the ASHP would be flat out.

Why isn't it a two stage process? Firstly do the insulation and keep the oil boiler. Secondly, when the boiler needs replacing, think about alternatives. I've never really liked the way that marketing for heat pumps seems to take credit for the insulation it requires.

It can be as many stages as you want, but more stages tend to add cost, complexity and the potential for doing bits of work twice.

rjsterry

surrey_commuter said:

john80 said:

My sister has an ashp in her new build but in Scotland there are a large number of loans and energy subsidies that make this not a million miles off the cost of a gas system. I don't think these subsidies or loans are available in england for the time being.

In Scotland the subsidies are paid from English taxation. In England it would seem like madness to incur the admin costs of taxation and subsidies to redistribute people's own money to themselves.

🙄.

kingstongraham

Just looked at my gas and electricity bill. On a fixed rate till November, but if it finished now, the best deal I could get is a 50% increase on both.

loltoride

surrey_commuter said:

Dorset_Boy said:

surrey_commuter said:

Dorset_Boy said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

webboo said:

rick_chasey said:

Yikes. You learn something every day.

I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.

If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.

Charming. Don't take it so seriously :P

the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticks

My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.

You haven't seen many former farmworkers houses then?

Of course he hasn't. It's patently obvious from his comments that he's never been outside an urban area, and never encountered mud.

he lives in the Fens

He lives in Cambridge, and gives the impression he doesn't like leaving the urban areas, unless in a train or in a car! He'd probably collapse in shock and panic if he went to the rural parts of the fens.

I am struggling to think of Cambridge as non-rural

Likewise always thought Cambridge was rural it's certainly classed as so on our network.

darkhairedlord

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

I'm just waiting for Stevo to say that he's got plenty of gas for his boiler.

Funnily enough, the house we're buying has oil fired central heating and no gas (house buying attempt #2 after the last one fell through).

Oh mate, don't do it! I couldn't tell you how long I've listened to people whine about how much faff that is.

not so much the faff as the cost!!!! I would ask to see a few years delivery receipts

Honestly, I have never heard so much whining from people about oil fired houses.

Christ alive. The regular days off to take delivery. The general maintenance. Running out of oil before the season is over. Delays in oil delivery. My favourite, the "my house is so big it's so much to heat. Oi, can you do that work so I can deliver it to the client and charge the next fee which i get 50% off and you none".

Honestly Stevo, don't do it.

We replaced a oil boiler and tank a few years ago like for like. There is a tank gauge so you know where you are with quantity and I have never had to wait more than say 7 days for a fill. It is a pretty cheap way to heat a house and if serviced yearly is pretty reliable for say the 10 year boiler life. In rural places with no gas it is a no brainer in terms of cost. The only thing that could possibly beat it is if you can bring your probably old house up to modern regs for both air changes and insulation and have room to install substantial solar then a air source heat pump might work.

This is not actually as difficult as you imply, especially if you are doing some renovation work anyway as many do when moving into somewhere new. And the PV is not essential - just a good way to offset the cost of running the heat pump.

In my case it would require a re-roof of the existing house to change the membrane under the tiles as this is on the way out and needs done in the next ten years anyway then install a modern amount of insulation in the voids. I would probably have to go round each room of the old house and apply insulated plasterboard as adding the insulation to the external walls would probably not work with the minimal tile overlap at the eaves. Good few thousand there. I might as well stick with oil.

The point about solar is the cost of electricity is pretty high at the minute. Heat pumps are often 10kw plus appliances and run a fair amount of the winter. Without any self generation this is going to get a lot more expensive than oil. I use about £600 or 1400 litres of oil a year to heat the house. Adding the new extension will hopefully reduce this a bit as I replaced a very drafty building but we will use more electricity as we have a electric aga in the kitchen that gives some heat load to the house.

Stick the insulation on the outside, that way you get to use the brickwork as a heat-store and prevent temperature fluctuations. Extend the roof tiles a tad or cap the top of the insulation with a taper at the top. job done. Saves a packet over the disruption of internal and lets face it, cavity insulation is never put in properly.

kingstongraham

kingstongraham said:

Just looked at my gas and electricity bill. On a fixed rate till November, but if it finished now, the best deal I could get is a 50% increase on both.

And now we will have to suck it up, because they've collapsed.

surrey_commuter

kingstongraham said:

kingstongraham said:

Just looked at my gas and electricity bill. On a fixed rate till November, but if it finished now, the best deal I could get is a 50% increase on both.

And now we will have to suck it up, because they've collapsed.

In fairness you would have got a sh1t deal when it ended anyway so you are only several weeks down

kingstongraham

surrey_commuter said:

kingstongraham said:

kingstongraham said:

Just looked at my gas and electricity bill. On a fixed rate till November, but if it finished now, the best deal I could get is a 50% increase on both.

And now we will have to suck it up, because they've collapsed.

In fairness you would have got a censored deal when it ended anyway so you are only several weeks down

Indeed. Still a 50% increase, which will be difficult for some people.

It's an amazing new phenomenon, the business that just loses money on each customer until it goes pop.

john80

It would seem to me that starting up an energy billing business probably does not require that much capital. Set it up when prices are low. Get as ma.y customers as you can and the persuade some fools to invest in your business whilst getting paid a couple of million to run it. Prices go up, you fold with three years pay and the remaining companies and consumers pay your debts. What is not to like.