BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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No beer for Wetherspoons will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.elbowloh said:First it was the Nandos and KFC, now its the Maccy D Milkshakes.
There will be an uprising at this rate. All it will take is for Greggs sausage rolls to go down. Don't mess with peoples food.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-583151520 -
Thinking about solutions to the actual problem of driver shortages, I guess if you have a limited resource pool of full time drivers, we need to upskill those that are already driving for a living into higher class vehicles.
Move resources so the shortfall sits in the last mile where alternatives are more readily available. E.g. drive to the shop or have more collection points for parcels. Or bikes picking up more of the last mile stuff.
I.e. sacrifice grocery deliveries to homes to get more into the shops in the first place.0 -
To do that you'd also need to pay them more and make it not a bad job. See my link to the FT article above.morstar said:Thinking about solutions to the actual problem of driver shortages, I guess if you have a limited resource pool of full time drivers, we need to upskill those that are already driving for a living into higher class vehicles.
Move resources so the shortfall sits in the last mile where alternatives are more readily available. E.g. drive to the shop or have more collection points for parcels. Or bikes picking up more of the last mile stuff.
I.e. sacrifice grocery deliveries to homes to get more into the shops in the first place.0 -
You haven't even asked shortfall if he wants a driving jobmorstar said:Thinking about solutions to the actual problem of driver shortages, I guess if you have a limited resource pool of full time drivers, we need to upskill those that are already driving for a living into higher class vehicles.
Move resources so the shortfall sits in the last mile where alternatives are more readily available. E.g. drive to the shop or have more collection points for parcels. Or bikes picking up more of the last mile stuff.
I.e. sacrifice grocery deliveries to homes to get more into the shops in the first place.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono1 -
what if they do notwant to be upskilled? pay is only one of the issues for driver shortagesmorstar said:Thinking about solutions to the actual problem of driver shortages, I guess if you have a limited resource pool of full time drivers, we need to upskill those that are already driving for a living into higher class vehicles.
Move resources so the shortfall sits in the last mile where alternatives are more readily available. E.g. drive to the shop or have more collection points for parcels. Or bikes picking up more of the last mile stuff.
I.e. sacrifice grocery deliveries to homes to get more into the shops in the first place.
A domestic solution will take years so why not recruit from abroad until they fix the supply of HGV drivers.
and the same for medics, vets, opticians, chefs, waiters and seasonal agric workers0 -
Part of the driver shortage is apparently due to new drivers having been unable to have lessons and tests due to social distancing rules.
I was on site last week trying to assist a well known builders' merchant with a parking problem they are having with deliveries. Basically it came down to drivers not following the instructions on their contract that require them to park away from the site and await their slot. I couldn't come up with a workable design solution and asked why they don't just tell their suppliers they'll cancel the contract if they keep breaking the requirements. The response was that it is so hard to get things delivered that they can't do that, they have turned drivers away and told them to come back at the correct time previously and the drivers just don't come back.0 -
It's a shame we didn't have more notice Brexit was happening so we could have done some of this planning.surrey_commuter said:
what if they do notwant to be upskilled? pay is only one of the issues for driver shortagesmorstar said:Thinking about solutions to the actual problem of driver shortages, I guess if you have a limited resource pool of full time drivers, we need to upskill those that are already driving for a living into higher class vehicles.
Move resources so the shortfall sits in the last mile where alternatives are more readily available. E.g. drive to the shop or have more collection points for parcels. Or bikes picking up more of the last mile stuff.
I.e. sacrifice grocery deliveries to homes to get more into the shops in the first place.
A domestic solution will take years so why not recruit from abroad until they fix the supply of HGV drivers.
and the same for medics, vets, opticians, chefs, waiters and seasonal agric workers- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
You have to have a bit of sympathy for those having to deliver it though as it's not like they're the people who insisted that Brexit had to happen at any cost. Oh...pangolin said:
It's a shame we didn't have more notice Brexit was happening so we could have done some of this planning.surrey_commuter said:
what if they do notwant to be upskilled? pay is only one of the issues for driver shortagesmorstar said:Thinking about solutions to the actual problem of driver shortages, I guess if you have a limited resource pool of full time drivers, we need to upskill those that are already driving for a living into higher class vehicles.
Move resources so the shortfall sits in the last mile where alternatives are more readily available. E.g. drive to the shop or have more collection points for parcels. Or bikes picking up more of the last mile stuff.
I.e. sacrifice grocery deliveries to homes to get more into the shops in the first place.
A domestic solution will take years so why not recruit from abroad until they fix the supply of HGV drivers.
and the same for medics, vets, opticians, chefs, waiters and seasonal agric workers0 -
It's not entirely related, but once again I'm wondering why we employed so many Romanian (polish, lithuanian etc etc) Bus Drivers.
What was it about young guys in Romania that meant they'd get themselves all the qualifications, experience etc and then look at where they could go to maximise their earnings (not to mention their lifestyle quality) that young british bus/HGV drivers don't have...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
I agree but that’s back to the argument I’ve already cycled through as far as I want to and what I’d argue drove a lot of pro Brexit sentiment.kingstongraham said:
To do that you'd also need to pay them more and make it not a bad job. See my link to the FT article above.morstar said:Thinking about solutions to the actual problem of driver shortages, I guess if you have a limited resource pool of full time drivers, we need to upskill those that are already driving for a living into higher class vehicles.
Move resources so the shortfall sits in the last mile where alternatives are more readily available. E.g. drive to the shop or have more collection points for parcels. Or bikes picking up more of the last mile stuff.
I.e. sacrifice grocery deliveries to homes to get more into the shops in the first place.
The reason I specifically mentioned upskilling is I think that it is more likely to be successful taking somebody who already drives for a living than some random dolee.
It’s easier to move drivers up (where willing) and backfill the lower tiers than train HGV1 drivers from the dole queue.
But I’m not saying this is simple, just how I would approach solving a problem that isn’t going away and the government appears to want the market to solve without overseas labour.
As ever, there will be partial solutions the market can find even if there still remains a gap. That I do have faith in. Route 1 isn’t the only route.1 -
Yes, but you still need to give people a reason to do it. Doing additional training to move from a job they are doing quite happily to a worse job that pays about the same isn't going to be very attractive.morstar said:
I agree but that’s back to the argument I’ve already cycled through as far as I want to and what I’d argue drove a lot of pro Brexit sentiment.kingstongraham said:
To do that you'd also need to pay them more and make it not a bad job. See my link to the FT article above.morstar said:Thinking about solutions to the actual problem of driver shortages, I guess if you have a limited resource pool of full time drivers, we need to upskill those that are already driving for a living into higher class vehicles.
Move resources so the shortfall sits in the last mile where alternatives are more readily available. E.g. drive to the shop or have more collection points for parcels. Or bikes picking up more of the last mile stuff.
I.e. sacrifice grocery deliveries to homes to get more into the shops in the first place.
The reason I specifically mentioned upskilling is I think that it is more likely to be successful taking somebody who already drives for a living than some random dolee.
It’s easier to move drivers up (where willing) and backfill the lower tiers than train HGV1 drivers from the dole queue.
But I’m not saying this is simple, just how I would approach solving a problem that isn’t going away and the government appears to want the market to solve without overseas labour.
As ever, there will be partial solutions the market can find even if there still remains a gap. That I do have faith in. Route 1 isn’t the only route.0 -
I think I’ve made quite a lot of posts in support of the idea that a decent wage should be available.kingstongraham said:
Yes, but you still need to give people a reason to do it. Doing additional training to move from a job they are doing quite happily to a worse job that pays about the same isn't going to be very attractive.morstar said:
I agree but that’s back to the argument I’ve already cycled through as far as I want to and what I’d argue drove a lot of pro Brexit sentiment.kingstongraham said:
To do that you'd also need to pay them more and make it not a bad job. See my link to the FT article above.morstar said:Thinking about solutions to the actual problem of driver shortages, I guess if you have a limited resource pool of full time drivers, we need to upskill those that are already driving for a living into higher class vehicles.
Move resources so the shortfall sits in the last mile where alternatives are more readily available. E.g. drive to the shop or have more collection points for parcels. Or bikes picking up more of the last mile stuff.
I.e. sacrifice grocery deliveries to homes to get more into the shops in the first place.
The reason I specifically mentioned upskilling is I think that it is more likely to be successful taking somebody who already drives for a living than some random dolee.
It’s easier to move drivers up (where willing) and backfill the lower tiers than train HGV1 drivers from the dole queue.
But I’m not saying this is simple, just how I would approach solving a problem that isn’t going away and the government appears to want the market to solve without overseas labour.
As ever, there will be partial solutions the market can find even if there still remains a gap. That I do have faith in. Route 1 isn’t the only route.
I totally sympathise with people who work productively and see little benefit from that. Inequality in distribution of wealth is part of what drove Brexit.
And to clarify, I still don’t support Brexit but understand why people did.1 -
A lot of them have taken a very short term view though. i.e. live as cheaply as possible to obtain a salary that cannot be replicated in their home country. If you're living here long term, you will have higher expectations around housing etc.ddraver said:It's not entirely related, but once again I'm wondering why we employed so many Romanian (polish, lithuanian etc etc) Bus Drivers.
What was it about young guys in Romania that meant they'd get themselves all the qualifications, experience etc and then look at where they could go to maximise their earnings (not to mention their lifestyle quality) that young british bus/HGV drivers don't have...
All these houses of multiple occupancy are commonly overseas labour living as cheap as possible as when they take the spare home, it increases in relative value so is an investment.0 -
you have to remember that it is a tiny % and they are the ones who wanted to better themselves and were willing to take a risk and uproot themselves to better their lot in life.ddraver said:It's not entirely related, but once again I'm wondering why we employed so many Romanian (polish, lithuanian etc etc) Bus Drivers.
What was it about young guys in Romania that meant they'd get themselves all the qualifications, experience etc and then look at where they could go to maximise their earnings (not to mention their lifestyle quality) that young british bus/HGV drivers don't have...0 -
Just realised a guy I met on the brother in law stag do who worked in the Nissan Factory in Newcastle lost his job in a round of cuts in late 2019 is now a truck driver.
Ha, it's like I've made it up. Amazing.0 -
Sunderland.rick_chasey said:Just realised a guy I met on the brother in law stag do who worked in the Nissan Factory in Newcastle lost his job in a round of cuts in late 2019 is now a truck driver.
Ha, it's like I've made it up. Amazing.
I thought Nissan had agreed to continue production and maybe even expand?
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Those who did support brexit should be celebrating this, and saying that it proves that the EU meant that jobs that were underpaid and had bad conditions could still find takers, when the employers will now need to stop exploiting the workforce.morstar said:
I think I’ve made quite a lot of posts in support of the idea that a decent wage should be available.kingstongraham said:
Yes, but you still need to give people a reason to do it. Doing additional training to move from a job they are doing quite happily to a worse job that pays about the same isn't going to be very attractive.morstar said:
I agree but that’s back to the argument I’ve already cycled through as far as I want to and what I’d argue drove a lot of pro Brexit sentiment.kingstongraham said:
To do that you'd also need to pay them more and make it not a bad job. See my link to the FT article above.morstar said:Thinking about solutions to the actual problem of driver shortages, I guess if you have a limited resource pool of full time drivers, we need to upskill those that are already driving for a living into higher class vehicles.
Move resources so the shortfall sits in the last mile where alternatives are more readily available. E.g. drive to the shop or have more collection points for parcels. Or bikes picking up more of the last mile stuff.
I.e. sacrifice grocery deliveries to homes to get more into the shops in the first place.
The reason I specifically mentioned upskilling is I think that it is more likely to be successful taking somebody who already drives for a living than some random dolee.
It’s easier to move drivers up (where willing) and backfill the lower tiers than train HGV1 drivers from the dole queue.
But I’m not saying this is simple, just how I would approach solving a problem that isn’t going away and the government appears to want the market to solve without overseas labour.
As ever, there will be partial solutions the market can find even if there still remains a gap. That I do have faith in. Route 1 isn’t the only route.
I totally sympathise with people who work productively and see little benefit from that. Inequality in distribution of wealth is part of what drove Brexit.
And to clarify, I still don’t support Brexit but understand why people did.
To be honest, the point in there about it meaning employers are trying to exploit their workers is one Labour should be making very forcefully given the post brexit world we live in.0 -
Your first paragraph is what I’ve been saying (or trying to).kingstongraham said:
Those who did support brexit should be celebrating this, and saying that it proves that the EU meant that jobs that were underpaid and had bad conditions could still find takers, when the employers will now need to stop exploiting the workforce.morstar said:
I think I’ve made quite a lot of posts in support of the idea that a decent wage should be available.kingstongraham said:
Yes, but you still need to give people a reason to do it. Doing additional training to move from a job they are doing quite happily to a worse job that pays about the same isn't going to be very attractive.morstar said:
I agree but that’s back to the argument I’ve already cycled through as far as I want to and what I’d argue drove a lot of pro Brexit sentiment.kingstongraham said:
To do that you'd also need to pay them more and make it not a bad job. See my link to the FT article above.morstar said:Thinking about solutions to the actual problem of driver shortages, I guess if you have a limited resource pool of full time drivers, we need to upskill those that are already driving for a living into higher class vehicles.
Move resources so the shortfall sits in the last mile where alternatives are more readily available. E.g. drive to the shop or have more collection points for parcels. Or bikes picking up more of the last mile stuff.
I.e. sacrifice grocery deliveries to homes to get more into the shops in the first place.
The reason I specifically mentioned upskilling is I think that it is more likely to be successful taking somebody who already drives for a living than some random dolee.
It’s easier to move drivers up (where willing) and backfill the lower tiers than train HGV1 drivers from the dole queue.
But I’m not saying this is simple, just how I would approach solving a problem that isn’t going away and the government appears to want the market to solve without overseas labour.
As ever, there will be partial solutions the market can find even if there still remains a gap. That I do have faith in. Route 1 isn’t the only route.
I totally sympathise with people who work productively and see little benefit from that. Inequality in distribution of wealth is part of what drove Brexit.
And to clarify, I still don’t support Brexit but understand why people did.
To be honest, the point in there about it meaning employers are trying to exploit their workers is one Labour should be making very forcefully given the post brexit world we live in.
It’s where I always felt the Brexiteers were simply borrowing votes from the disenfranchised.
That the current policy direction has been to let the economy be put under stress rather than simply allow the cheap labour to continue is quite a big surprise to me tbh.0 -
Training is cheaper so return on investment is much higher. Because both countries were in the EU it is beyond doubt that the licence is of the same quality.ddraver said:It's not entirely related, but once again I'm wondering why we employed so many Romanian (polish, lithuanian etc etc) Bus Drivers.
What was it about young guys in Romania that meant they'd get themselves all the qualifications, experience etc and then look at where they could go to maximise their earnings (not to mention their lifestyle quality) that young british bus/HGV drivers don't have...0 -
Doesn't mean they don't let people go, right?elbowloh said:
Sunderland.rick_chasey said:Just realised a guy I met on the brother in law stag do who worked in the Nissan Factory in Newcastle lost his job in a round of cuts in late 2019 is now a truck driver.
Ha, it's like I've made it up. Amazing.
I thought Nissan had agreed to continue production and maybe even expand?0 -
as a matter of interest does he feel that he has benefited from the switchrick_chasey said:
Doesn't mean they don't let people go, right?elbowloh said:
Sunderland.rick_chasey said:Just realised a guy I met on the brother in law stag do who worked in the Nissan Factory in Newcastle lost his job in a round of cuts in late 2019 is now a truck driver.
Ha, it's like I've made it up. Amazing.
I thought Nissan had agreed to continue production and maybe even expand?0 -
No idea. I met him once, with the sort of curiosity you have for someone who has never met someone who works in a factory socially.
I quizzed him on the hours (3 week rota, if I remember correctly a week at each of either 8am-4pm, 4pm-12pm or 12pm-8am), and him moaning that the factory was so big that by the time he got to the cafateria he had to walk back so he used to have a packed lunch on the floor of his bit and they would have to hoover up the crumbs all within 20 minutes before the line started moving again.
Sounded rubbish, and that was before he started moaning about the fact that it creates a massive rush-hour going in and out of the factory every day which adds 20 minutes each way in and out.
Fair enough if people like that but I don't get the paper's clamour for manufacturing to return - sound like a pretty rubbish jobs tbh.0 -
Its still Sunderland though.rick_chasey said:
Doesn't mean they don't let people go, right?elbowloh said:
Sunderland.rick_chasey said:Just realised a guy I met on the brother in law stag do who worked in the Nissan Factory in Newcastle lost his job in a round of cuts in late 2019 is now a truck driver.
Ha, it's like I've made it up. Amazing.
I thought Nissan had agreed to continue production and maybe even expand?0 -
You'd never met someone who worked in a factory?rick_chasey said:No idea. I met him once, with the sort of curiosity you have for someone who has never met someone who works in a factory socially.
I quizzed him on the hours (3 week rota, if I remember correctly a week at each of either 8am-4pm, 4pm-12pm or 12pm-8am), and him moaning that the factory was so big that by the time he got to the cafateria he had to walk back so he used to have a packed lunch on the floor of his bit and they would have to hoover up the crumbs all within 20 minutes before the line started moving again.
Sounded rubbish, and that was before he started moaning about the fact that it creates a massive rush-hour going in and out of the factory every day which adds 20 minutes each way in and out.
I've worked in a big car plant also, I'm surprised about the story about not having time to go to the cafeteria, i don't think Nissan Sunderland was that much bigger than Honda Swindon! It was massive at Honda also, but never heard anyone complaining about not having time to eat. Also, you would not be allowed to eat anywhere on the factory floor. There were break areas where you can have a cuppa, but on the factory floor, no way, massive no no in terms of car quality and also hygiene/health.
I can certainly testify that there are queues getting out of the car park, with operatives running flat our when the buzzer goes to get our quick and beat the queue. They had to also have people with speed guns to try and control speeding at those times, with someone clocked doing 80mph in the car park, when i think it was a 10mph limit.
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No not in a current one. I may have gone to school with people who now work in factories.
I think my grandfather *ran* a factory as did my father in law, but that was a looong time ago.0 -
I was a bit taken aback by that too!elbowloh said:
You'd never met someone who worked in a factory?rick_chasey said:No idea. I met him once, with the sort of curiosity you have for someone who has never met someone who works in a factory socially.
I quizzed him on the hours (3 week rota, if I remember correctly a week at each of either 8am-4pm, 4pm-12pm or 12pm-8am), and him moaning that the factory was so big that by the time he got to the cafateria he had to walk back so he used to have a packed lunch on the floor of his bit and they would have to hoover up the crumbs all within 20 minutes before the line started moving again.
Sounded rubbish, and that was before he started moaning about the fact that it creates a massive rush-hour going in and out of the factory every day which adds 20 minutes each way in and out.
I've worked in a big car plant also, I'm surprised about the story about not having time to go to the cafeteria, i don't think Nissan Sunderland was that much bigger than Honda Swindon! It was massive at Honda also, but never heard anyone complaining about not having time to eat. Also, you would not be allowed to eat anywhere on the factory floor. There were break areas where you can have a cuppa, but on the factory floor, no way, massive no no in terms of car quality and also hygiene/health.
I can certainly testify that there are queues getting out of the car park, with operatives running flat our when the buzzer goes to get our quick and beat the queue. They had to also have people with speed guns to try and control speeding at those times, with someone clocked doing 80mph in the car park, when i think it was a 10mph limit.0 -
So a Champagne Socialist then.rick_chasey said:No not in a current one. I may have gone to school with people who now work in factories.
I think my grandfather *ran* a factory as did my father in law, but that was a looong time ago.
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Ha I am not a socialist. Just because the forum is populated by various populists and right-wingers and I disagree with them does not suddenly make me a socialist.webboo said:
So a Champagne Socialist then.rick_chasey said:No not in a current one. I may have gone to school with people who now work in factories.
I think my grandfather *ran* a factory as did my father in law, but that was a looong time ago.
I've said it before, I don't ever try to speak on behalf of other people. I am a gobshite but i don't pretend I am some working class hero.0 -
I really don't think I have ever known somebody who worked on a factory floor, maybe it is a reflection of where you grew up and now live.Pross said:
I was a bit taken aback by that too!elbowloh said:
You'd never met someone who worked in a factory?rick_chasey said:No idea. I met him once, with the sort of curiosity you have for someone who has never met someone who works in a factory socially.
I quizzed him on the hours (3 week rota, if I remember correctly a week at each of either 8am-4pm, 4pm-12pm or 12pm-8am), and him moaning that the factory was so big that by the time he got to the cafateria he had to walk back so he used to have a packed lunch on the floor of his bit and they would have to hoover up the crumbs all within 20 minutes before the line started moving again.
Sounded rubbish, and that was before he started moaning about the fact that it creates a massive rush-hour going in and out of the factory every day which adds 20 minutes each way in and out.
I've worked in a big car plant also, I'm surprised about the story about not having time to go to the cafeteria, i don't think Nissan Sunderland was that much bigger than Honda Swindon! It was massive at Honda also, but never heard anyone complaining about not having time to eat. Also, you would not be allowed to eat anywhere on the factory floor. There were break areas where you can have a cuppa, but on the factory floor, no way, massive no no in terms of car quality and also hygiene/health.
I can certainly testify that there are queues getting out of the car park, with operatives running flat our when the buzzer goes to get our quick and beat the queue. They had to also have people with speed guns to try and control speeding at those times, with someone clocked doing 80mph in the car park, when i think it was a 10mph limit.0 -
Don't think I have either- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0
