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  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,769

    I have a sister who is a vet. Aparently, in their drive for equality in the profession, a disproportionately large number of females were offered places at vet school over the last 10-15 years or so. Now a lot of them have or are having families and don't want to work full time or the on call shift patterns, and this is a major problem for practices.

    Parental leave and family commitments are a challenge to handle in any small professional business, especially one requiring long/unsociable hours.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
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  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 14,604
    rjsterry said:

    elbowloh said:

    The cost per hour of treatment on your bill is generally not that much (certainly compared to a private doctor or a lawyer). They deliberately charge you relatively little for a vets time as otherwise more people would refuse to pay. The practise makes their money on the mark up for the drugs and tests etc i believe.

    Mine charges like a wounded buffalo and drives an open top sports car
    You can always not have the pet. Just possibly, highly qualified professionals should be charging a decent amount when it costs them Β£100k to qualify.

    Or are you a horse owner?
    garden's not big enough
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078

    I have a sister who is a vet. Aparently, in their drive for equality in the profession, a disproportionately large number of females were offered places at vet school over the last 10-15 years or so. Now a lot of them have or are having families and don't want to work full time or the on call shift patterns, and this is a major problem for practices.

    The shift patterns are often censored though. When in private practice the wife was expected to work 08.00-18.00 most days, with pretty much no breaks, on the days she was on lates it was like 11.00-21.00 and often on those lates she didn't come home until 23.00. Then it was 1 in four weekends on top of that (both Saturday and Sunday). I wouldn't want those hours, i'd want to work "part time" and end up working what equates to a regular 9-5.
    Felt F1 2014
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  • ProssPross Posts: 29,626
    elbowloh said:

    I have a sister who is a vet. Aparently, in their drive for equality in the profession, a disproportionately large number of females were offered places at vet school over the last 10-15 years or so. Now a lot of them have or are having families and don't want to work full time or the on call shift patterns, and this is a major problem for practices.

    The shift patterns are often censored though. When in private practice the wife was expected to work 08.00-18.00 most days, with pretty much no breaks, on the days she was on lates it was like 11.00-21.00 and often on those lates she didn't come home until 23.00. Then it was 1 in four weekends on top of that (both Saturday and Sunday). I wouldn't want those hours, i'd want to work "part time" and end up working what equates to a regular 9-5.
    It's always a surprise to me that it seems to be the most difficult degree course to get a place on when those capable of the required grades could go for pretty much any course then go out and earn more.
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078
    Pross said:

    elbowloh said:

    I have a sister who is a vet. Aparently, in their drive for equality in the profession, a disproportionately large number of females were offered places at vet school over the last 10-15 years or so. Now a lot of them have or are having families and don't want to work full time or the on call shift patterns, and this is a major problem for practices.

    The shift patterns are often censored though. When in private practice the wife was expected to work 08.00-18.00 most days, with pretty much no breaks, on the days she was on lates it was like 11.00-21.00 and often on those lates she didn't come home until 23.00. Then it was 1 in four weekends on top of that (both Saturday and Sunday). I wouldn't want those hours, i'd want to work "part time" and end up working what equates to a regular 9-5.
    It's always a surprise to me that it seems to be the most difficult degree course to get a place on when those capable of the required grades could go for pretty much any course then go out and earn more.
    oh, and those Saturdays and Sundays were 9.00-21.00.

    The vet school courses have masses of applicants, it seems the practices were fine to burn their staff out as there were plenty more coming through the pipeline.
    Felt F1 2014
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  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 16,833
    Not all about the money?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
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  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078
    edited 29 July
    pblakeney said:

    Not all about the money?

    For the vets themselves, many of them choose the profession, because they love animals (many are veggie or vegan for example), without realising that they actually spend a lot of their time putting animals to sleep, which is horrific for them.

    For many, the worst thing is having to deal with the human clients who are quite often a-holes.

    Just to note, most of this is just my own opinions from being around the wife and her colleagues often.
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  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,400 Lives Here
    Oh poor poor them, having to deal with people. Heavens above.
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078
    edited 29 July

    Oh poor poor them, having to deal with people. Heavens above.

    Have you seen the censored NHS staff deal with at A&E? Its like that.

    My wife has been threatened with violence by pet owners, is often sworn at. She's had people hanging around outside the door, day after day trying to harangue them on their way out of work.

    She has to deal with 50 kilo aggressive dogs whose owners refuse to restrain or muzzle.

    Do you get that in your job Rick? Don't be a censored when you have no idea what it's like.

    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
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  • ProssPross Posts: 29,626

    Oh poor poor them, having to deal with people. Heavens above.

    I assume the issue is dealing with the way humans treat the animals.
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078
    Pross said:

    Oh poor poor them, having to deal with people. Heavens above.

    I assume the issue is dealing with the way humans treat the animals.
    There's that too.

    She has had to confiscate animals from owns who have mistreated them and also report owners to the RSPCA for criminal investigation and prosecution. There are also those who use their dogs for fighting and then bring them in for treatment (charity sector vets).

    However, its mainly the threats of physical violence.
    Felt F1 2014
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    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,400 Lives Here
    Sure, I don't get threatened with violence.

    I'm just commenting via my own prejudices. I have always thought it weird when people like animals more than people - always thought it was some sort of weird projection and lacking reality but what do I know (clue - not very much).

    Don't take what I say all that seriously, honest!
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078
    Oh, then to a lesser extent are the [email protected] who have Googled stuff in the internet and thibknthey know better how to treat their pet than the vet.
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  • pangolinpangolin Posts: 3,970
    Two of my best friends are vets and whenever all 3 of us together a lot of the conversation is them moaning about clients. Agree on the shifts too elbowloh - only one of them has kids but his wife does a phenomenal amount of solo childcare evenings and weekends.
    Genesis Croix de Fer
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  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,076



    I'm just commenting via my own prejudices.

    Why do you do that?
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,400 Lives Here
    We all do! Might as well point out where it's been highlighted, indirectly or otherwise by other posters.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,076
    Are Brexit voting truck drivers still considered stupid and guilty of voting for something that would make them worse off because they failed to understand the lump of labour fallacy?
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,076

    We all do! Might as well point out where it's been highlighted, indirectly or otherwise by other posters.

    Certainly my racist homophobic grandmother did, but I didn't consider it to be one of her finest features.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 14,604

    Are Brexit voting truck drivers still considered stupid and guilty of voting for something that would make them worse off because they failed to understand the lump of labour fallacy?

    are they domestic or pan-Europe?
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,076

    Are Brexit voting truck drivers still considered stupid and guilty of voting for something that would make them worse off because they failed to understand the lump of labour fallacy?

    are they domestic or pan-Europe?
    Pan-Europe ones are surely happy too, no? More pay for local work.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,400 Lives Here
    edited 29 July

    We all do! Might as well point out where it's been highlighted, indirectly or otherwise by other posters.

    Certainly my racist homophobic grandmother did, but I didn't consider it to be one of her finest features.
    The first step to being less prejudiced is recognising where you are being prejudiced. We all have them.

    Sometimes certain prejudices are reasonable or justified, some aren't.

    I don't think having pop psychology theories on why some people prefer animals to humans is at the same level as being a racist homophobe but ymmv.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,076

    We all do! Might as well point out where it's been highlighted, indirectly or otherwise by other posters.

    Certainly my racist homophobic grandmother did, but I didn't consider it to be one of her finest features.
    The first step to being less prejudiced is recognising where you are being prejudiced. We all have them.

    Sometimes certain prejudices are reasonable or justified, some aren't.

    I don't think having pop psychology theories on why some people prefer animals to humans is at the same level as being a racist homophobe but ymmv.
    Recognition is good, but only as means to prevention not as an excuse in advance. Otherwise you justify "I know it's a bit racist to say this, but..."

  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,400 Lives Here
    But I'm not justifying racism, am I? To be clear.

    Some prejudices are very tolerable, some really are not.

    You seem to have your own prejudices about recruiters who you feel you can't trust to not let the market you know you're looking for a job. I'm sure you find that very reasonable and are comfortable with that.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,076
    edited 29 July

    But I'm not justifying racism, am I? To be clear.

    Some prejudices are very tolerable, some really are not.

    You seem to have your own prejudices about recruiters who you feel you can't trust to not let the market you know you're looking for a job. I'm sure you find that very reasonable and are comfortable with that.

    That's based on knowing the people involved, so not a prejudice! If I fancied a career change and was using unknown recruiters I wouldn't be so sceptical although it is a lot of information to provide an unregulated company.

    And age is a protected characteristic just like race. Animals are not.
  • jimmyjamsjimmyjams Posts: 491
    elbowloh said:

    Pross said:

    elbowloh said:

    I have a sister who is a vet. Aparently, in their drive for equality in the profession, a disproportionately large number of females were offered places at vet school over the last 10-15 years or so. Now a lot of them have or are having families and don't want to work full time or the on call shift patterns, and this is a major problem for practices.

    The shift patterns are often censored though. When in private practice the wife was expected to work 08.00-18.00 most days, with pretty much no breaks, on the days she was on lates it was like 11.00-21.00 and often on those lates she didn't come home until 23.00. Then it was 1 in four weekends on top of that (both Saturday and Sunday). I wouldn't want those hours, i'd want to work "part time" and end up working what equates to a regular 9-5.
    It's always a surprise to me that it seems to be the most difficult degree course to get a place on when those capable of the required grades could go for pretty much any course then go out and earn more.
    oh, and those Saturdays and Sundays were 9.00-21.00.

    The vet school courses have masses of applicants, it seems the practices were fine to burn their staff out as there were plenty more coming through the pipeline.
    I'm surprised to read this.
    In late Autumn 2018 on a coastal walk, I encounted a vet and his daughters and we got chatting. He told me that because the UK doesn't train as many vets (both surgeons and nurses) as it requires, about half of all vets in the UK are from the EU, like he was. He also said that many of them (i.e. vets from the EU) would have once regarded themselves as settled in the UK, as he had, however, because of Brexit he thought a good quarter of them, himself included, were seriously thinking of returning to the EU, and that in fact between the Brexit vote and when we met, 5-10% had already returned to the EU.
    That doesn't sound like the situation you describe, unless in the last few years there has coincidentally been a sudden and major increase in the number of new UK-trained vets graduating.

  • ddraverddraver Posts: 23,216
    edited 29 July
    The problem there is that UK vets want to play with horses and puppies rather than check that one of the 500 cows covered in sh1te about to be slaughtered for Findus lasagne hasn't got TB...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 7,643
    edited 29 July
    elbowloh said:

    Pross said:

    Oh poor poor them, having to deal with people. Heavens above.

    I assume the issue is dealing with the way humans treat the animals.
    There's that too.

    She has had to confiscate animals from owns who have mistreated them and also report owners to the RSPCA for criminal investigation and prosecution. There are also those who use their dogs for fighting and then bring them in for treatment (charity sector vets).

    However, its mainly the threats of physical violence.

    I remember once at the farm, the vet was an hour late. When he arrived, eventually, he looked rather shaken. He explained that an old lady, whose only companion was an old dog, had come into the surgery, and sadly, they had to recommend putting the pet to sleep, having talked through the options. Once they had put the old dog to sleep, the old lady then said "And when will he wake up?" They then spent the next hour consoling her.
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078
    edited 29 July
    jimmyjams said:

    elbowloh said:

    Pross said:

    elbowloh said:

    I have a sister who is a vet. Aparently, in their drive for equality in the profession, a disproportionately large number of females were offered places at vet school over the last 10-15 years or so. Now a lot of them have or are having families and don't want to work full time or the on call shift patterns, and this is a major problem for practices.

    The shift patterns are often censored though. When in private practice the wife was expected to work 08.00-18.00 most days, with pretty much no breaks, on the days she was on lates it was like 11.00-21.00 and often on those lates she didn't come home until 23.00. Then it was 1 in four weekends on top of that (both Saturday and Sunday). I wouldn't want those hours, i'd want to work "part time" and end up working what equates to a regular 9-5.
    It's always a surprise to me that it seems to be the most difficult degree course to get a place on when those capable of the required grades could go for pretty much any course then go out and earn more.
    oh, and those Saturdays and Sundays were 9.00-21.00.

    The vet school courses have masses of applicants, it seems the practices were fine to burn their staff out as there were plenty more coming through the pipeline.
    I'm surprised to read this.
    In late Autumn 2018 on a coastal walk, I encounted a vet and his daughters and we got chatting. He told me that because the UK doesn't train as many vets (both surgeons and nurses) as it requires, about half of all vets in the UK are from the EU, like he was. He also said that many of them (i.e. vets from the EU) would have once regarded themselves as settled in the UK, as he had, however, because of Brexit he thought a good quarter of them, himself included, were seriously thinking of returning to the EU, and that in fact between the Brexit vote and when we met, 5-10% had already returned to the EU.
    That doesn't sound like the situation you describe, unless in the last few years there has coincidentally been a sudden and major increase in the number of new UK-trained vets graduating.

    Yeah, I meant by pipeline both immigrants and uni's. I think it's more like 30% are non UK citizens, mainly (in my experience) Spanish and Italians.

    Only anecdotal, but all the EU vets I know have stayed in the UK.
    Felt F1 2014
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    Tall....
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  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,076
    ddraver said:

    The problem there is that UK vets want to play with horses and puppies rather than check that one of the 500 cows covered in sh1te about to be slaughtered for Findus lasagne hasn't got TB...

    Feel like this opinion might not be the most well researched. Not saying a slaughter house would be the first pick of many, but there are a lot that don't want to go anywhere near dog and horse owners.

    Although if you want to 100% large animals you need to live in a very rural location.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 23,216
    edited 29 July
    Live in such a rural location next door to a vet, whole side of family are vets and best family friends are vets but...feel away

    Dragging the Brexit thread back to Brexit, another problem JJs walking companion may have mentioned is that all the vast majority of vets working in ports or doing CHED-P type checks were EU vets
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
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