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  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,076



    Ultimately, the aim should be something that is accepted by the majority.

    The only thing that has shown anything like achieving a majority is the UK having a closer relationship to Europe and thereby removing the trade barriers. This also has the support of 4 of the 5 parties (and occasionally the DUP)

    On the Protocol is split (IIRC) 48% to 46% against.

    56% voted Remain

    57% want their 'MLA to vote to remain in the Single Market'
    The one on the protocol is only relevant one though really.
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 16,674



    Ultimately, the aim should be something that is accepted by the majority.

    The only thing that has shown anything like achieving a majority is the UK having a closer relationship to Europe and thereby removing the trade barriers. This also has the support of 4 of the 5 parties (and occasionally the DUP)

    On the Protocol is split (IIRC) 48% to 46% against.

    56% voted Remain

    57% want their 'MLA to vote to remain in the Single Market'
    The one on the protocol is only relevant one though really.
    Not if the objective is "something that is accepted by the majority"
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,076



    Ultimately, the aim should be something that is accepted by the majority.

    The only thing that has shown anything like achieving a majority is the UK having a closer relationship to Europe and thereby removing the trade barriers. This also has the support of 4 of the 5 parties (and occasionally the DUP)

    On the Protocol is split (IIRC) 48% to 46% against.

    56% voted Remain

    57% want their 'MLA to vote to remain in the Single Market'
    The one on the protocol is only relevant one though really.
    Not if the objective is "something that is accepted by the majority"
    Yes, so the majority needs to either accept or reject the protocol. At the moment, the polling is not clear. Wishing the UK aligned with the EU or ROI aligned with the UK isn't an option available to the NI electorate.

  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 16,674

    They can still collapse the assembly though can't they? And I think the UK government said at the time the WA agreement was agreed, they would then consider a referendum.

    The alternative consent mechanism (if the assembly has collapsed due to Unionist refusal to nominate either First or deputy First Minister) is for the secretary of state to instruct the speaker of the assembly to recall the assembly and have the vote.


    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,076

    They can still collapse the assembly though can't they? And I think the UK government said at the time the WA agreement was agreed, they would then consider a referendum.

    The alternative consent mechanism (if the assembly has collapsed due to Unionist refusal to nominate either First or deputy First Minister) is for the secretary of state to instruct the speaker of the assembly to recall the assembly and have the vote.


    Sure, but why would he or she do that? Or are you saying the referendum simply can't happen?
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 16,674



    Ultimately, the aim should be something that is accepted by the majority.

    The only thing that has shown anything like achieving a majority is the UK having a closer relationship to Europe and thereby removing the trade barriers. This also has the support of 4 of the 5 parties (and occasionally the DUP)

    On the Protocol is split (IIRC) 48% to 46% against.

    56% voted Remain

    57% want their 'MLA to vote to remain in the Single Market'
    The one on the protocol is only relevant one though really.
    Not if the objective is "something that is accepted by the majority"
    Yes, so the majority needs to either accept or reject the protocol. At the moment, the polling is not clear. Wishing the UK aligned with the EU or ROI aligned with the UK isn't an option available to the NI electorate.

    Is not only possible but likely that the Protocol is unable to secure majority support but there won't be a majority of MLAs to remove it.

    Your desire for 'majority support' doesn't seem to reflect the outcome that NI actually wants.


    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 16,674



    Ultimately, the aim should be something that is accepted by the majority.

    The only thing that has shown anything like achieving a majority is the UK having a closer relationship to Europe and thereby removing the trade barriers. This also has the support of 4 of the 5 parties (and occasionally the DUP)

    On the Protocol is split (IIRC) 48% to 46% against.

    56% voted Remain

    57% want their 'MLA to vote to remain in the Single Market'
    The one on the protocol is only relevant one though really.
    Not if the objective is "something that is accepted by the majority"
    Yes, so the majority needs to either accept or reject the protocol. At the moment, the polling is not clear. Wishing the UK aligned with the EU or ROI aligned with the UK isn't an option available to the NI electorate.

    Is not only possible but likely that the Protocol is unable to secure majority support but there won't be a majority of MLAs to remove it.

    Your desire for 'majority support' doesn't seem to reflect the outcome that NI actually wants.


    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,076



    Ultimately, the aim should be something that is accepted by the majority.

    The only thing that has shown anything like achieving a majority is the UK having a closer relationship to Europe and thereby removing the trade barriers. This also has the support of 4 of the 5 parties (and occasionally the DUP)

    On the Protocol is split (IIRC) 48% to 46% against.

    56% voted Remain

    57% want their 'MLA to vote to remain in the Single Market'
    The one on the protocol is only relevant one though really.
    Not if the objective is "something that is accepted by the majority"
    Yes, so the majority needs to either accept or reject the protocol. At the moment, the polling is not clear. Wishing the UK aligned with the EU or ROI aligned with the UK isn't an option available to the NI electorate.

    Is not only possible but likely that the Protocol is unable to secure majority support but there won't be a majority of MLAs to remove it.

    Your desire for 'majority support' doesn't seem to reflect the outcome that NI actually wants.


    Yes, sorry, you mean like the way the UK parliament spent ages voting down Brexit ideas. I meant if there is a referendum (protocol / no protocol), then they have to support something although you could say that voting for "no protocol" is not really picking an option.
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 16,674



    Ultimately, the aim should be something that is accepted by the majority.

    The only thing that has shown anything like achieving a majority is the UK having a closer relationship to Europe and thereby removing the trade barriers. This also has the support of 4 of the 5 parties (and occasionally the DUP)

    On the Protocol is split (IIRC) 48% to 46% against.

    56% voted Remain

    57% want their 'MLA to vote to remain in the Single Market'
    The one on the protocol is only relevant one though really.
    Not if the objective is "something that is accepted by the majority"
    Yes, so the majority needs to either accept or reject the protocol. At the moment, the polling is not clear. Wishing the UK aligned with the EU or ROI aligned with the UK isn't an option available to the NI electorate.

    Is not only possible but likely that the Protocol is unable to secure majority support but there won't be a majority of MLAs to remove it.

    Your desire for 'majority support' doesn't seem to reflect the outcome that NI actually wants.


    Yes, sorry, you mean like the way the UK parliament spent ages voting down Brexit ideas. I meant if there is a referendum (protocol / no protocol), then they have to support something although you could say that voting for "no protocol" is not really picking an option.
    There isn't going to be a referendum on the Protocol
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 16,674

    They can still collapse the assembly though can't they? And I think the UK government said at the time the WA agreement was agreed, they would then consider a referendum.

    The alternative consent mechanism (if the assembly has collapsed due to Unionist refusal to nominate either First or deputy First Minister) is for the secretary of state to instruct the speaker of the assembly to recall the assembly and have the vote.


    Sure, but why would he or she do that? Or are you saying the referendum simply can't happen?
    Missed this earlier

    This is the process that's in the legislation
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,076

    They can still collapse the assembly though can't they? And I think the UK government said at the time the WA agreement was agreed, they would then consider a referendum.

    The alternative consent mechanism (if the assembly has collapsed due to Unionist refusal to nominate either First or deputy First Minister) is for the secretary of state to instruct the speaker of the assembly to recall the assembly and have the vote.


    Sure, but why would he or she do that? Or are you saying the referendum simply can't happen?
    Missed this earlier

    This is the process that's in the legislation
    Yes, I did some further reading. At the time there was talk of a referendum being an alternative. It seems that all bets are off if there is direct rule though.
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 16,674
    Cummings on NI

    Not surprising, but still



    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,422 Lives Here
    lol low priority issue. FFS. He is literally old enough to know better.
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 16,674

    They can still collapse the assembly though can't they? And I think the UK government said at the time the WA agreement was agreed, they would then consider a referendum.

    The alternative consent mechanism (if the assembly has collapsed due to Unionist refusal to nominate either First or deputy First Minister) is for the secretary of state to instruct the speaker of the assembly to recall the assembly and have the vote.


    Sure, but why would he or she do that? Or are you saying the referendum simply can't happen?
    Missed this earlier

    This is the process that's in the legislation
    Yes, I did some further reading. At the time there was talk of a referendum being an alternative. It seems that all bets are off if there is direct rule though.
    Institute for Government seems to think absent an Assembly,the default is for the Protocol to stay

    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,773

    lol low priority issue. FFS. He is literally old enough to know better.

    I suppose, having done a Prince Andrew (the interview), he has to try to brazen it out and act like he achieved something.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,422 Lives Here
    Round here by the way, pretty much all the cafes are working on reduced hours due to staff shortages.

    I know a few of the owners - i asked if it was rona and apaz it's mainly brexit. They're spitting feathers
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 23,218
    Severe derth of decent baristas in Cornwall at the moment... ๐Ÿ˜ˆ

    Gonna rip the dirty jug out of the next ones hands and do it me-self next time
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 46,837
    I do admire the valiant efforts of the die-hards to keep the glowing embers of this thread from going out.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 17,794
    Brexit all done and dusted is it? No aftershocks? Coolio Inglesias.
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078
    Stevo_666 said:

    I do admire the valiant efforts of the die-hards to keep the glowing embers of this thread from going out.

    The issue of Brexit and it's ramifications is still clearly on going, hence things still to discuss.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 7,651
    Stevo carefully ignores the fact that the reason for Brexit was that our membership of the EU was scrutinised and debated for forty years. This thread is merely part of the ongoing debate... here's to the next forty years...
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 14,605

    Round here by the way, pretty much all the cafes are working on reduced hours due to staff shortages.

    I know a few of the owners - i asked if it was rona and apaz it's mainly brexit. They're spitting feathers

    Now in fairness to Brexiteers this was argued as one of the benefits.

    This will be a real life test of your lump of labour fallacy.
  • darkhairedlorddarkhairedlord Posts: 7,097

    Round here by the way, pretty much all the cafes are working on reduced hours due to staff shortages.

    I know a few of the owners - i asked if it was rona and apaz it's mainly brexit. They're spitting feathers

    Then they need to offer decent pay and conditions that will encourage former shop workers into the game.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 46,837

    Stevo carefully ignores the fact that the reason for Brexit was that our membership of the EU was scrutinised and debated for forty years. This thread is merely part of the ongoing debate... here's to the next forty years...

    As I said, admirable.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,422 Lives Here
    Stevo are you not interested in the consequences of Brexit?

  • morstarmorstar Posts: 4,663

    Round here by the way, pretty much all the cafes are working on reduced hours due to staff shortages.

    I know a few of the owners - i asked if it was rona and apaz it's mainly brexit. They're spitting feathers

    Now in fairness to Brexiteers this was argued as one of the benefits.

    This will be a real life test of your lump of labour fallacy.
    Whilst the lump of labour is a fallacy due to it not being a closed system, the equally false presumption by those simply dismissing it is that there is infinite capacity for work and workers.

    As ever, truth is in the middle.
    Cafe owners need to charge and pay more. Easier said than done.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 16,847
    Everyone happy that their cafe bill will go up 25%*?

    *Random figure.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,422 Lives Here
    edited 24 July

    Round here by the way, pretty much all the cafes are working on reduced hours due to staff shortages.

    I know a few of the owners - i asked if it was rona and apaz it's mainly brexit. They're spitting feathers

    Now in fairness to Brexiteers this was argued as one of the benefits.

    This will be a real life test of your lump of labour fallacy.
    Itโ€™s really annoying as weโ€™d just got into a really nice habit of going to our local Italian place just after lunch with the little one to grab a nice coffee or ice cream. She loves it. It breaks up what can be a very long afternoon.

    Now they shut for any time after 2pm and are back open at 7pm for dinner.

    If weโ€™re talking economy, thatโ€™s a regular ยฃ13-15 missing or so just from me.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 46,837
    edited 24 July

    Stevo are you not interested in the consequences of Brexit?

    As you can see from my contributions to this thread, I definitely did take an interest even if we rarely agreed. It also formed a material part of my job for a few years.

    However from my point of view now it does not have a material impact on me professionally or personally, nor does it appear to be a major issue for this country any longer. You may well disagree with that last bit but that's my view. There are bigger fish to fry (no pun intended) so my interest has waned, as it has for most people.

    To me it seems that 'taking an interest' is now more closely linked to people who still want to say 'I told you so' or who still cling to the hope that we can go back to the way it was.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 23,218
    The concept of "other people" really is totally foreign to you isn't it...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
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