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  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,380 Lives Here
    edited 25 June
    Never thought I'd see the day Bally and Stevo criticise countries for imposing their will on other countries.

    Thought they were proud of the Empire etc.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 46,825
    edited 25 June

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Having cornered the early market for vaccines we find ourselves unable to go there because they're not vaccinated and we're riddled with delta variant.


    Victims of our own success it would appear then.
    If by success you mean more rona deaths by any other European nation
    Don't even need to bait the hook do I? :D

    But I was referring to TWH's point about our vaccine success.

    Ricks response was probably as predictable as the sunrise.
    Doesn't mean it isn't true and avoiding deaths is entirely the point of vaccines and lockdowns etc.

    The crowing about "success" is quite tragic in that context.
    The point Bally referred to was about our vaccination programme. Do you think it has been successful?
    Yeah sure.

    This is a bit like the team in the relegation zone saying "well we're the top scoreres" which is all very well, but they let in so many they didn't win a match.

    As we've told you many times, its the result at the final whistle that counts. I recall you trying call a result last year based on the time when you thought it was most beneficial from a Tory bashing point of view.

    PS you could have saved yourself some effort by stopping typing after 'yeah sure', as that answered the question ;)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 46,825
    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Having cornered the early market for vaccines we find ourselves unable to go there because they're not vaccinated and we're riddled with delta variant.


    Victims of our own success it would appear then.
    If by success you mean more rona deaths by any other European nation
    Don't even need to bait the hook do I? :D

    But I was referring to TWH's point about our vaccine success.

    Ricks response was probably as predictable as the sunrise.
    Doesn't mean it isn't true and avoiding deaths is entirely the point of vaccines and lockdowns etc.

    The crowing about "success" is quite tragic in that context.
    The point Bally referred to was about our vaccination programme. Do you think it has been successful?
    Getting there but not yet, as evidenced by the number of cases and the continuing restrictions on travel. London in particular is still at pretty low levels of take up.
    Sounds like a slightly grudging 'yes'?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,380 Lives Here


    Well I think the Dutch position on Hungary is clear
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,380 Lives Here
    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Having cornered the early market for vaccines we find ourselves unable to go there because they're not vaccinated and we're riddled with delta variant.


    Victims of our own success it would appear then.
    If by success you mean more rona deaths by any other European nation
    Don't even need to bait the hook do I? :D

    But I was referring to TWH's point about our vaccine success.

    Ricks response was probably as predictable as the sunrise.
    Doesn't mean it isn't true and avoiding deaths is entirely the point of vaccines and lockdowns etc.

    The crowing about "success" is quite tragic in that context.
    The point Bally referred to was about our vaccination programme. Do you think it has been successful?
    Yeah sure.

    This is a bit like the team in the relegation zone saying "well we're the top scoreres" which is all very well, but they let in so many they didn't win a match.

    As we've told you many times, its the result at the final whistle that counts. I recall you trying call a result last year based on the time when you thought it was most beneficial from a Tory bashing point of view.
    If there is a material change in the body count then the vaccine rollout has not been successful so pinning the hopes on the vaccine saving us all will have also been very wrong.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,765
    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Having cornered the early market for vaccines we find ourselves unable to go there because they're not vaccinated and we're riddled with delta variant.


    Victims of our own success it would appear then.
    If by success you mean more rona deaths by any other European nation
    Don't even need to bait the hook do I? :D

    But I was referring to TWH's point about our vaccine success.

    Ricks response was probably as predictable as the sunrise.
    Doesn't mean it isn't true and avoiding deaths is entirely the point of vaccines and lockdowns etc.

    The crowing about "success" is quite tragic in that context.
    The point Bally referred to was about our vaccination programme. Do you think it has been successful?
    Getting there but not yet, as evidenced by the number of cases and the continuing restrictions on travel. London in particular is still at pretty low levels of take up.
    Sounds like a slightly grudging 'yes'?
    Make it sound like what you like. As you say, let's wait for the final whistle, which is obviously quite a bit further off than was suggested by those claiming we were already at herd immunity a couple of months ago.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 15,628

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Having cornered the early market for vaccines we find ourselves unable to go there because they're not vaccinated and we're riddled with delta variant.


    Victims of our own success it would appear then.
    If by success you mean more rona deaths by any other European nation
    Don't even need to bait the hook do I? :D

    But I was referring to TWH's point about our vaccine success.

    Ricks response was probably as predictable as the sunrise.
    Doesn't mean it isn't true and avoiding deaths is entirely the point of vaccines and lockdowns etc.

    The crowing about "success" is quite tragic in that context.
    The point Bally referred to was about our vaccination programme. Do you think it has been successful?
    Yeah sure.

    This is a bit like the team in the relegation zone saying "well we're the top scoreres" which is all very well, but they let in so many they didn't win a match.

    I wasn't crowing about anything but people read what they want to read.
    As Twh pointed out our vaccine programme was better than the rest of Europe and we have to wait for them to catch up.


    As an aside, only in Cs could this be implied as being our fault.
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 16,674
    edited 25 June
    Stevo_666 said:

    the final whistle that counts.

    Have we established when the final whistle will blow or how the result will be measured?
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,380 Lives Here
    i think some people struggle with the existential point of vaccines and other public health interventions in a pandemic.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 46,825

    Stevo_666 said:

    the final whistle that counts.

    Have we established when the final whistle will blow or how the result will be measured?
    On a number of counts I'm sure, but not just on what Rick thinks are the relevant stats. I'm not sure that many people outside of Cake Stop will be thinking about it too hard.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 16,674
    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    the final whistle that counts.

    Have we established when the final whistle will blow or how the result will be measured?
    On a number of counts I'm sure, but not just on what Rick thinks are the relevant stats. I'm not sure that many people outside of Cake Stop will be thinking about it too hard.
    When do you think the final whistle blows and what do you think the relevant stats are?

    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 16,819

    Stevo_666 said:

    the final whistle that counts.

    Have we established when the final whistle will blow or how the result will be measured?
    IMO the final whistle will blow when all restrictions are lifted. Worldwide.
    Only early in the second half at the moment and may go to extra time.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 14,603
    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    Club not happy with former member who has spent the last 5 years plus moaning to anyone who will listen how bad it was to be a member of the club. Yes, I can see why that would be a surprise.


    Yep. the EU not happy with us. Mutti Merkel saying that all Brits visiting the EU should be quarantined, although fully vaccined. So business as usual, quite happy to throw the Spanish costas and other Med regions under the autobús for political pique.
    Merkel is suggesting it and Spain are ignoring her. Maybe we had a bit more autonomy in the big, bad EU then we thought.
    And so should Spain ignore her. Doesn't alter her position does it that she thinks that she, through the EU should be able to dictate policy to other nations, especially ones so much more dependant on tourism than her own.

    Because we would never ever dream of doing that would we.......
    A larger more powerful nation using the EU to dictate policy to other smaller, supposedly equal nations? The EU is a vehicle for the northern states to impose their will on the poorer Med countries? Is that it?


    Haha if that's how you see it.

    I see it as:

    Germany 'We should all expect Brits, where the Delta variant is running wild and they have the highest Covid rates in Europe, to self-quarantine'

    Spain 'We're a sovereign nation who relies on tourism so er......no'
    So you don't think Germany is doing anything wrong by trying to impose its will on other nations?
    No. That's what all countries do by one means or another. To not do so would be a dereliction of foreign policy.
    My question still stands regardless of what others may or may not do.
    And I answered it in the first word. Do you think the UK government doesn't try to impose it's will on other countries?
    At least the Germans aren't steaming waships just off the coast of Spain
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 14,603
    pblakeney said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    the final whistle that counts.

    Have we established when the final whistle will blow or how the result will be measured?
    IMO the final whistle will blow when all restrictions are lifted. Worldwide.
    Only early in the second half at the moment and may go to extra time.
    cheer up - when do you think the UK will be back to the new normal (ie 80% of where we were)?
  • pangolinpangolin Posts: 3,969

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    the final whistle that counts.

    Have we established when the final whistle will blow or how the result will be measured?
    On a number of counts I'm sure, but not just on what Rick thinks are the relevant stats. I'm not sure that many people outside of Cake Stop will be thinking about it too hard.
    When do you think the final whistle blows and what do you think the relevant stats are?


    Genesis Croix de Fer
    Cube Attain
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 16,819

    pblakeney said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    the final whistle that counts.

    Have we established when the final whistle will blow or how the result will be measured?
    IMO the final whistle will blow when all restrictions are lifted. Worldwide.
    Only early in the second half at the moment and may go to extra time.
    cheer up - when do you think the UK will be back to the new normal (ie 80% of where we were)?
    I am perfectly happy thanks, just answering the posed question.
    Define new normal? I think we will be back to the old normal eventually.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 14,603
    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Having cornered the early market for vaccines we find ourselves unable to go there because they're not vaccinated and we're riddled with delta variant.


    Victims of our own success it would appear then.
    If by success you mean more rona deaths by any other European nation
    Don't even need to bait the hook do I? :D

    But I was referring to TWH's point about our vaccine success.

    Ricks response was probably as predictable as the sunrise.
    Doesn't mean it isn't true and avoiding deaths is entirely the point of vaccines and lockdowns etc.

    The crowing about "success" is quite tragic in that context.
    The point Bally referred to was about our vaccination programme. Do you think it has been successful?
    Yeah sure.

    This is a bit like the team in the relegation zone saying "well we're the top scoreres" which is all very well, but they let in so many they didn't win a match.

    As we've told you many times, its the result at the final whistle that counts. I recall you trying call a result last year based on the time when you thought it was most beneficial from a Tory bashing point of view.

    PS you could have saved yourself some effort by stopping typing after 'yeah sure', as that answered the question ;)
    Genuine question - I may be misreading your position but do you believe that the poor performance in the early months of lockdown lead to the successful vaccinatiom program? ie if we were in an average position we would not have felt the need to chuck the kitchen sink at the vaccination effort?
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 23,212
    The success of the vaccine program was entirely due to someone at the NHS wrestling control of it away from the government before they could sell it...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 17,785

    Having cornered the early market for vaccines we find ourselves unable to go there because they're not vaccinated and we're riddled with delta variant.


    Victims of our own success it would appear then.
    You think it's the vaccination programme's success that means we have so much delta variant?

    It's a take, I suppose.
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 16,674

    Having cornered the early market for vaccines we find ourselves unable to go there because they're not vaccinated and we're riddled with delta variant.


    Victims of our own success it would appear then.
    You think it's the vaccination programme's success that means we have so much delta variant?

    It's a take, I suppose.
    Indirectly it's been a contributing factor.

    We have taken big steps towards normalisation based on a vaccination programme which, fingers crossed, insulates us from the worst impacts of the virus but which also "allows" it to spread

    Choices get made

    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 46,825

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Having cornered the early market for vaccines we find ourselves unable to go there because they're not vaccinated and we're riddled with delta variant.


    Victims of our own success it would appear then.
    If by success you mean more rona deaths by any other European nation
    Don't even need to bait the hook do I? :D

    But I was referring to TWH's point about our vaccine success.

    Ricks response was probably as predictable as the sunrise.
    Doesn't mean it isn't true and avoiding deaths is entirely the point of vaccines and lockdowns etc.

    The crowing about "success" is quite tragic in that context.
    The point Bally referred to was about our vaccination programme. Do you think it has been successful?
    Yeah sure.

    This is a bit like the team in the relegation zone saying "well we're the top scoreres" which is all very well, but they let in so many they didn't win a match.

    As we've told you many times, its the result at the final whistle that counts. I recall you trying call a result last year based on the time when you thought it was most beneficial from a Tory bashing point of view.

    PS you could have saved yourself some effort by stopping typing after 'yeah sure', as that answered the question ;)
    Genuine question - I may be misreading your position but do you believe that the poor performance in the early months of lockdown lead to the successful vaccinatiom program? ie if we were in an average position we would not have felt the need to chuck the kitchen sink at the vaccination effort?
    No, I think we would have it anyway as it is the most important part of the exit from this. And it seems to have worked well..
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 14,603

    Having cornered the early market for vaccines we find ourselves unable to go there because they're not vaccinated and we're riddled with delta variant.


    Victims of our own success it would appear then.
    You think it's the vaccination programme's success that means we have so much delta variant?

    It's a take, I suppose.
    Indirectly it's been a contributing factor.

    We have taken big steps towards normalisation based on a vaccination programme which, fingers crossed, insulates us from the worst impacts of the virus but which also "allows" it to spread

    Choices get made

    I really don't get why these decisions are seen as binary.

    why not press hard on vaccinations whilst opening up as much as possible without losing control of infections/hospitalisations/deaths AND restrict travel from overseas hotspots
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,765
    edited 25 June
    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Having cornered the early market for vaccines we find ourselves unable to go there because they're not vaccinated and we're riddled with delta variant.


    Victims of our own success it would appear then.
    If by success you mean more rona deaths by any other European nation
    Don't even need to bait the hook do I? :D

    But I was referring to TWH's point about our vaccine success.

    Ricks response was probably as predictable as the sunrise.
    Doesn't mean it isn't true and avoiding deaths is entirely the point of vaccines and lockdowns etc.

    The crowing about "success" is quite tragic in that context.
    The point Bally referred to was about our vaccination programme. Do you think it has been successful?
    Yeah sure.

    This is a bit like the team in the relegation zone saying "well we're the top scoreres" which is all very well, but they let in so many they didn't win a match.

    As we've told you many times, its the result at the final whistle that counts. I recall you trying call a result last year based on the time when you thought it was most beneficial from a Tory bashing point of view.

    PS you could have saved yourself some effort by stopping typing after 'yeah sure', as that answered the question ;)
    Genuine question - I may be misreading your position but do you believe that the poor performance in the early months of lockdown lead to the successful vaccinatiom program? ie if we were in an average position we would not have felt the need to chuck the kitchen sink at the vaccination effort?
    No, I think we would have it anyway as it is the most important part of the exit from this. And it seems to have worked well..
    Too early to tell. I still can't get all my staff back in the office at once.

    And to relate this to Brexit, we are now at the point where contractors are reluctant to agree to fixed price contracts because they have no idea what materials and labour will cost in two months time.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,380 Lives Here
    Anyone else surprised at the naïve attitude Frost is showing at these hearings?

    Basically all the things people said would likely happen he now says weren't expected and they're 'surprised'
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,765

    Anyone else surprised at the naïve attitude Frost is showing at these hearings?

    Basically all the things people said would likely happen he now says weren't expected and they're 'surprised'

    I am not surprised by him pretending to be surprised.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,380 Lives Here
    rjsterry said:

    Anyone else surprised at the naïve attitude Frost is showing at these hearings?

    Basically all the things people said would likely happen he now says weren't expected and they're 'surprised'

    I am not surprised by him pretending to be surprised.
    It is such red meat for "I told you so" people (of which I am a paid up member).
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 14,603

    rjsterry said:

    Anyone else surprised at the naïve attitude Frost is showing at these hearings?

    Basically all the things people said would likely happen he now says weren't expected and they're 'surprised'

    I am not surprised by him pretending to be surprised.
    It is such red meat for "I told you so" people (of which I am a paid up member).
    Based on the fact that he chose to wear Union Jack socks to the G7 I would assume that he has a lot of surprises in his life
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,380 Lives Here

    rjsterry said:

    Anyone else surprised at the naïve attitude Frost is showing at these hearings?

    Basically all the things people said would likely happen he now says weren't expected and they're 'surprised'

    I am not surprised by him pretending to be surprised.
    It is such red meat for "I told you so" people (of which I am a paid up member).
    Based on the fact that he chose to wear Union Jack socks to the G7 I would assume that he has a lot of surprises in his life
    I can assure you they are fairly regular attire for a certain kind of City duffer.
  • JezyboyJezyboy Posts: 1,004

    Anyone else surprised at the naïve attitude Frost is showing at these hearings?

    Basically all the things people said would likely happen he now says weren't expected and they're 'surprised'

    I'm suprised that anyone would take the role in the first place. A bunch of workshy posters on a bike forum had worked out that the red lines/conditions/whatever that the government were trying to impose where squaring the circle.

  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 17,785

    rjsterry said:

    Anyone else surprised at the naïve attitude Frost is showing at these hearings?

    Basically all the things people said would likely happen he now says weren't expected and they're 'surprised'

    I am not surprised by him pretending to be surprised.
    It is such red meat for "I told you so" people (of which I am a paid up member).
    Does he care?

    We left. Any predictable unpleasantness now has to be dealt with anyway.
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