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BREXIT - I Think We Need Some Lorry Drivers πŸ‡ͺπŸ‡Ί πŸš›πŸš›

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  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,076

    Looks like it has mostly recovered in both directions, but that makes for a less exciting story.

    image

    I'd be more interested as a proportion of GDP and exports as that is rather meaningless on its own, and the timeline is only to 2018 and not to before the ref.
    The data is all available, so you can do it. I just think a headline that looks at an average of three months, ignores the higher levels last year and ignores the recovery is quite poor. Consistent with Brexit reporting though.

    So when the NFU are complaining they're in dire straights they're....making it up?
    No idea. I'm just presenting the data.
    You're not just presenting the data. You're also interpreting it, and saying that is has recovered and that's not being reported on - and the trade bodies are saying the opposite.

    could it be that TBB's data is by month whereas the others are the aggregate for the quarter?
    Yes, that is exactly it. So a really bad Jan and a bad Feb make for a bad quarter even if March is near normal.
  • ProssPross Posts: 29,629
    elbowloh said:

    elbowloh said:

    elbowloh said:

    Way to go!

    British food and drink exports to EU fall by Β£2bn in first quarter of 2021

    Industry body says analysis of HMRC data shows structural rather than teething problems with Brexit

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jun/18/british-food-and-drink-exports-to-eu-fall-by-2bn-in-first-quarter-of-2021

    This, then the Australia deal, seem like a massive blow to farmers.
    TBF I've been eating a lot more British fish since Brexit. Possibly not as much as a whole continent but hey-ho, the farmers and fishermen should stop bloody moaning about it. Deal's done and the voice of the people has been heard. Get over it.
    Would you get over it and be quiet if you lost your livelihood?
    If I owned a pub and supported a referendum on the abolition of alcohol, I like to think that if successful I would accept the loss of my livelihood with good grace
    But they were told that Brexit would be a land of opportunity.
    They should have asked for examples of the opportunities rather than accept the word of people with some ulterior motive that all their ills were due to Johnny Foreigner and his EU chums. It's not just farming and fishing either, most of the areas around here were strongly pro-Brexit despite there beings signs up all over the place of schemes that have been funded by the EU to bring employment and infrastructure. I really don't see the UK Government making up for that shortfall in investment.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 14,605
    elbowloh said:

    More on it here:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57518910

    Cheese sales to the EU down 70%

    genuine question to the hive - why do they always go on about the cheese?

    I am guessing they are trolling Liz Truss as she highlighted it in the Japan deal or it is an always used benchmark for FTAs
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,421 Lives Here
    I dunno about you but there are rarely days where I don't eat cheese of some form.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 46,836
    Can someone explain how the Australia trade deal is so bad for us that we should never have signed it/makes us worse off? (In their own words, not just a link or a twitter repost).
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,076
    Can't do cheese, but here is dairy

    image
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 14,605

    I dunno about you but there are rarely days where I don't eat cheese of some form.

    so you think it is always mentioned because it is a ubiquitous foodstuff?

    does not explain why the focus is on UK cheese exports
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 7,651
    Stevo_666 said:

    Can someone explain how the Australia trade deal is so bad for us that we should never have signed it/makes us worse off? (In their own words, not just a link or a twitter repost).


    In farming terms, because many of their farming practices are illegal in this country, and would cause outrage if allowed here (evil farmers inhumanely exploiting animals to make a profit), but seems to be fine when it's 10,000 miles away.
  • darkhairedlorddarkhairedlord Posts: 7,097

    Can't do cheese, but here is dairy

    image

    Is the march spike just the stuff stuck at the docks in December finally arriving?
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 14,605
    Stevo_666 said:

    Can someone explain how the Australia trade deal is so bad for us that we should never have signed it/makes us worse off? (In their own words, not just a link or a twitter repost).

    it has the farmers up in arms so that means I like it, looking on a more macro level it is pretty much inconsequential though it could have provided a benchmark for others to aim for
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,773
    Stevo_666 said:

    Can someone explain how the Australia trade deal is so bad for us that we should never have signed it/makes us worse off? (In their own words, not just a link or a twitter repost).

    Not bad as such. Just unambitious: as far as I can tell we gave Australia pretty much everything they asked for without asking for much in return (there may not have been a whole lot that we wanted from them in the first place).
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 14,605
    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Can someone explain how the Australia trade deal is so bad for us that we should never have signed it/makes us worse off? (In their own words, not just a link or a twitter repost).

    Not bad as such. Just unambitious: as far as I can tell we gave Australia pretty much everything they asked for without asking for much in return (there may not have been a whole lot that we wanted from them in the first place).
    we don't have a lot that they want, their tariffs were pretty low anyway and they are a very, very, very, very long way away
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,421 Lives Here

    I dunno about you but there are rarely days where I don't eat cheese of some form.

    so you think it is always mentioned because it is a ubiquitous foodstuff?

    does not explain why the focus is on UK cheese exports
    Yeah. Cheese is really European as well. You don't (well I don't certainly) really get cheese from beyond Europe very often.

  • webboowebboo Posts: 3,855
    According to my Australian mate you only get 2 types of cheese in Australia.
    White and Yellow.
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 7,651

    Stevo_666 said:

    Can someone explain how the Australia trade deal is so bad for us that we should never have signed it/makes us worse off? (In their own words, not just a link or a twitter repost).

    it has the farmers up in arms so that means I like it, looking on a more macro level it is pretty much inconsequential though it could have provided a benchmark for others to aim for

    Even with your pathological dislike of UK farming/farmers, can you see why they might not be happy to be constrained to much higher environmental/animal welfare standards, and yet see no controls on imports with no/few of those constraints?

    Also, FWIW, if you follow the course of UK farming from WW2 onwards, they have very obediently followed the prompts of governments, whether that's massively increasing production after the war (draining land and taking out hedgerows - both encouraged through grants), or increasing/decreasing production of various commodities in response to subsidies offered. You seem to be disliking them for doing what they were asked to.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,421 Lives Here
    edited 18 June
    webboo said:

    According to my Australian mate you only get 2 types of cheese in Australia.
    White and Yellow.

    As a French marketer once said, cheese is living – it is not kept in the fridge but in a designated space in the kitchen.

    American cheese is dead and it is packed up in plastic body bags and left in refrigerated morgues.
  • webboowebboo Posts: 3,855
    I saw a programme about a guy who tried to import some unpasteurised French cheese in to Australia. He got it as far as the docks but ended up having to bury it or face prosecution. They have a pathological fear of things getting in and contaminating their food chain.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 23,218
    Not like they have a history of issues with invasive species at all is it...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_species_in_Australia

    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • darkhairedlorddarkhairedlord Posts: 7,097

    Stevo_666 said:

    Can someone explain how the Australia trade deal is so bad for us that we should never have signed it/makes us worse off? (In their own words, not just a link or a twitter repost).

    it has the farmers up in arms so that means I like it, looking on a more macro level it is pretty much inconsequential though it could have provided a benchmark for others to aim for

    Even with your pathological dislike of UK farming/farmers, can you see why they might not be happy to be constrained to much higher environmental/animal welfare standards, and yet see no controls on imports with no/few of those constraints?

    Also, FWIW, if you follow the course of UK farming from WW2 onwards, they have very obediently followed the prompts of governments, whether that's massively increasing production after the war (draining land and taking out hedgerows - both encouraged through grants), or increasing/decreasing production of various commodities in response to subsidies offered. You seem to be disliking them for doing what they were asked to.
    you mean they have obediently taken huge hand outs of other peoples money?
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 7,651

    Stevo_666 said:

    Can someone explain how the Australia trade deal is so bad for us that we should never have signed it/makes us worse off? (In their own words, not just a link or a twitter repost).

    it has the farmers up in arms so that means I like it, looking on a more macro level it is pretty much inconsequential though it could have provided a benchmark for others to aim for

    Even with your pathological dislike of UK farming/farmers, can you see why they might not be happy to be constrained to much higher environmental/animal welfare standards, and yet see no controls on imports with no/few of those constraints?

    Also, FWIW, if you follow the course of UK farming from WW2 onwards, they have very obediently followed the prompts of governments, whether that's massively increasing production after the war (draining land and taking out hedgerows - both encouraged through grants), or increasing/decreasing production of various commodities in response to subsidies offered. You seem to be disliking them for doing what they were asked to.
    you mean they have obediently taken huge hand outs of other peoples money?

    Anywhere where governments makes large payments... education, healthcare, transport, etc. is both market distorting and 'huge handouts' to specific industries. In the case of farming, the goal has been to ensure adequate food supplies (kinda essential) and to manage the environment in a way that is not left to the free market (see deforestation for an example of that).

    All three of the industries I mention could have been left to the free market, but society and governments have decided they need to intervene for various reasons.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 14,605
    My first thought is that they should have made a bigger donation. My second thought is if you can challenge UK Govt decisions for being irrational then we are going to need a bigger court.

    My 20 pence is on them folding rather than trying to explain why they gave the money to a mate
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,076
    I have only been to two places in the world where immigration have been so slow that the bag delivery thing has been turned off with the unclaimed bags piled up: Lusaka and Heathrow. It's a shambles.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,421 Lives Here

    I have only been to two places in the world where immigration have been so slow that the bag delivery thing has been turned off with the unclaimed bags piled up: Lusaka and Heathrow. It's a shambles.

    JFK holds my personal record of a 3 and a half hour wait once i've arrived in the actual terminal.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 14,605

    I have only been to two places in the world where immigration have been so slow that the bag delivery thing has been turned off with the unclaimed bags piled up: Lusaka and Heathrow. It's a shambles.

    JFK holds my personal record of a 3 and a half hour wait once i've arrived in the actual terminal.
    JFK pre ESTA was a nightmare, I used to fly on US carriers so there were less foreigners in the queue.

    Best was Changi when it was 40 minutes from docking to taxi and that was with luggage and teh cheap seats.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 46,836

    I have only been to two places in the world where immigration have been so slow that the bag delivery thing has been turned off with the unclaimed bags piled up: Lusaka and Heathrow. It's a shambles.

    JFK holds my personal record of a 3 and a half hour wait once i've arrived in the actual terminal.
    JFK was actually one of my fastest. Flew via Shannon, pre-cleared US customs at Shannon then waltzed though JFK as a domestic arrival.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,421 Lives Here
    Stevo_666 said:

    I have only been to two places in the world where immigration have been so slow that the bag delivery thing has been turned off with the unclaimed bags piled up: Lusaka and Heathrow. It's a shambles.

    JFK holds my personal record of a 3 and a half hour wait once i've arrived in the actual terminal.
    JFK was actually one of my fastest. Flew via Shannon, pre-cleared US customs at Shannon then waltzed though JFK as a domestic arrival.
    So I think I arrived at the same time a 747 from India arrived.

    There were maybe 20 empty passport controls free - an airport woman went to presumably her boss and asked "maybe we should open some more of the gates so we can get rid of the backlog" and the guy shouted back at her "I WILL NOT HAVE AMERICANS WAITING TO GET BACK INTO THEIR COUNTRY" and that was that.

  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078
    Worst for us was LA in 2019. Took us 3 hours to just get through passport control. The ridiculous thing we were in transit to NZ and had to get off the plane, go through passport control, pick up luggage, check it back in, go through security again and get back on the same plane in the same seats to get to our destination.

    That's just the rules in the US. Had to do the same in San Fran in the way back, when we had a 12 hour layover. Managed to get into town, down to the docks, have lunch, see the sea lions, go on the cable cars and have more food in the Cheesecake Factory.
    Felt F1 2014
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  • john80john80 Posts: 2,425
    Man who runs a restaurant is complaining about his pre covid ratio on 3 out of 30 workers being British being affected by brexit. I wonder if he had a risk register with this glaring risk on it and thought about managing the situation over the last 4 to 5 years. He is also surprised that those getting 80% of their wage for watching the TV are unhappy to return for a job many of them were not that arsed about in the first place.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57555608
  • skyblueamateurskyblueamateur Posts: 694
    john80 said:

    Man who runs a restaurant is complaining about his pre covid ratio on 3 out of 30 workers being British being affected by brexit. I wonder if he had a risk register with this glaring risk on it and thought about managing the situation over the last 4 to 5 years. He is also surprised that those getting 80% of their wage for watching the TV are unhappy to return for a job many of them were not that arsed about in the first place.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57555608

    I thought there wouldn't be a staff shortage and it was Project Fear?
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