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  • ProssPross Posts: 29,626
    john80 said:

    elbowloh said:

    john80 said:

    There are products from America that would be beneficial to us. It's not all steroid injected beef. Maybe be a bit smarter in the panning of US food products and pick the ones we like.

    Such as? Genuine question.

    We're already overwhelmed by their cultural exports. The cars are a piece of censored , they don't really make decent electrical goods (Apple products aren't made in the US). We get US beer and wine here also.
    Look around the UK. With the exception of the south west we are not overflowing with land suitable for crops. Presently we import a lot of this from Europe whilst America has something to offer. Round my way we can grow grass, cows and sheep. Not much of a balanced diet. Getting upset about pork products from America somewhat misses the point.
    The south-west is predominantly dairy cattle farming. The UKs main locations for arable is East Anglia. As someone has said above, take a trip to Lincolnshire if you think we lack land for farming crops (actually, don't as the scenery is sh!t and you'll get stuck behind a tractor lugging cabbages for miles).
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,076
    Pross said:

    john80 said:

    elbowloh said:

    john80 said:

    There are products from America that would be beneficial to us. It's not all steroid injected beef. Maybe be a bit smarter in the panning of US food products and pick the ones we like.

    Such as? Genuine question.

    We're already overwhelmed by their cultural exports. The cars are a piece of censored , they don't really make decent electrical goods (Apple products aren't made in the US). We get US beer and wine here also.
    Look around the UK. With the exception of the south west we are not overflowing with land suitable for crops. Presently we import a lot of this from Europe whilst America has something to offer. Round my way we can grow grass, cows and sheep. Not much of a balanced diet. Getting upset about pork products from America somewhat misses the point.
    The south-west is predominantly dairy cattle farming. The UKs main locations for arable is East Anglia. As someone has said above, take a trip to Lincolnshire if you think we lack land for farming crops (actually, don't as the scenery is sh!t and you'll get stuck behind a tractor lugging cabbages for miles).
    Enough for 70m people?
  • john80john80 Posts: 2,425
    morstar said:

    john80 said:

    elbowloh said:

    john80 said:

    There are products from America that would be beneficial to us. It's not all steroid injected beef. Maybe be a bit smarter in the panning of US food products and pick the ones we like.

    Such as? Genuine question.

    We're already overwhelmed by their cultural exports. The cars are a piece of censored , they don't really make decent electrical goods (Apple products aren't made in the US). We get US beer and wine here also.
    Look around the UK. With the exception of the south west we are not overflowing with land suitable for crops. Presently we import a lot of this from Europe whilst America has something to offer. Round my way we can grow grass, cows and sheep. Not much of a balanced diet. Getting upset about pork products from America somewhat misses the point.
    But we currently get food generally produced to high standards and in the UK specifically, we do place value on animal husbandry standards.
    The US food production is solely focussed on maximising efficiency with both quality and husbandry standards a very distant consideration.
    So should I be worried about US rapeseed oil or any of the other products that could be brought in tariff free from the US that would be in our consumers interests because of a reputation for other products.
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 7,643
    john80 said:

    morstar said:

    john80 said:

    elbowloh said:

    john80 said:

    There are products from America that would be beneficial to us. It's not all steroid injected beef. Maybe be a bit smarter in the panning of US food products and pick the ones we like.

    Such as? Genuine question.

    We're already overwhelmed by their cultural exports. The cars are a piece of censored , they don't really make decent electrical goods (Apple products aren't made in the US). We get US beer and wine here also.
    Look around the UK. With the exception of the south west we are not overflowing with land suitable for crops. Presently we import a lot of this from Europe whilst America has something to offer. Round my way we can grow grass, cows and sheep. Not much of a balanced diet. Getting upset about pork products from America somewhat misses the point.
    But we currently get food generally produced to high standards and in the UK specifically, we do place value on animal husbandry standards.
    The US food production is solely focussed on maximising efficiency with both quality and husbandry standards a very distant consideration.
    So should I be worried about US rapeseed oil or any of the other products that could be brought in tariff free from the US that would be in our consumers interests because of a reputation for other products.

    Do you think that the US would let the UK pick and choose just those products that it 'needs'?
  • ProssPross Posts: 29,626

    Pross said:

    john80 said:

    elbowloh said:

    john80 said:

    There are products from America that would be beneficial to us. It's not all steroid injected beef. Maybe be a bit smarter in the panning of US food products and pick the ones we like.

    Such as? Genuine question.

    We're already overwhelmed by their cultural exports. The cars are a piece of censored , they don't really make decent electrical goods (Apple products aren't made in the US). We get US beer and wine here also.
    Look around the UK. With the exception of the south west we are not overflowing with land suitable for crops. Presently we import a lot of this from Europe whilst America has something to offer. Round my way we can grow grass, cows and sheep. Not much of a balanced diet. Getting upset about pork products from America somewhat misses the point.
    The south-west is predominantly dairy cattle farming. The UKs main locations for arable is East Anglia. As someone has said above, take a trip to Lincolnshire if you think we lack land for farming crops (actually, don't as the scenery is sh!t and you'll get stuck behind a tractor lugging cabbages for miles).
    Enough for 70m people?
    No, I doubt it. I was just pointing out that the south-west isn't the an area suitable for growing crops. If it was then they would already be doing in on a much wider scale.

    However, a lot of crops currently grown get wasted as they don't meet the aesthetics for public sale and that would be a good thing to address first. I'm still not sure whether this is due to the EU rules we had to follow or supermarkets deciding what their customers want though. We need to get past the idea that a carrot that doesn't look like a sterotype picture of a carrot is somehow inferior and should be condemned to animal feed or, worse still, just dumped.
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 7,643
    I've still not quite wrapped my head around the supposed benefit of making trading with our nearest neighbours more difficult, if there are things we need to import, then arguing we need to import stuff from 5000 miles away.
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078

    I've still not quite wrapped my head around the supposed benefit of making trading with our nearest neighbours more difficult, if there are things we need to import, then arguing we need to import stuff from 5000 miles away.

    Particularly from a climate change point of view...after Boris just told the world we should be building back greener
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 16,674
    Every chance the NI Assembly could collapse this week

    So that's nice
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • pangolinpangolin Posts: 3,970
    elbowloh said:

    I've still not quite wrapped my head around the supposed benefit of making trading with our nearest neighbours more difficult, if there are things we need to import, then arguing we need to import stuff from 5000 miles away.

    Particularly from a climate change point of view...after Boris just told the world we should be building back greener
    Ah I can help there. If it comes from the US a lot of it will come on ships, which traditionally have girls names. Stuff from the EU will come on trucks, which aren't usually named. It's all part of building back in a more feminine way.
    Genesis Croix de Fer
    Cube Attain
  • john80john80 Posts: 2,425

    john80 said:

    morstar said:

    john80 said:

    elbowloh said:

    john80 said:

    There are products from America that would be beneficial to us. It's not all steroid injected beef. Maybe be a bit smarter in the panning of US food products and pick the ones we like.

    Such as? Genuine question.

    We're already overwhelmed by their cultural exports. The cars are a piece of censored , they don't really make decent electrical goods (Apple products aren't made in the US). We get US beer and wine here also.
    Look around the UK. With the exception of the south west we are not overflowing with land suitable for crops. Presently we import a lot of this from Europe whilst America has something to offer. Round my way we can grow grass, cows and sheep. Not much of a balanced diet. Getting upset about pork products from America somewhat misses the point.
    But we currently get food generally produced to high standards and in the UK specifically, we do place value on animal husbandry standards.
    The US food production is solely focussed on maximising efficiency with both quality and husbandry standards a very distant consideration.
    So should I be worried about US rapeseed oil or any of the other products that could be brought in tariff free from the US that would be in our consumers interests because of a reputation for other products.

    Do you think that the US would let the UK pick and choose just those products that it 'needs'?
    Currently we don't have a FTA with the US so are able to alter our import tax on items such as grains etc that we might need to import a lot of and don't have a great domestic supply of. This would be to the benefit of nations outside the EU in terms of sales and to us in reduced prices and as long as we are not harming a domestic market then there is little reason to not do so. If the UK thinks it is getting a trade deal with the US anytime soon it is kidding itself and the last 20 years have been working just fine. The only difference now is that we are not part of a club that seeks to distort competition to suit a few European member states that do very well out of the common agriculture policy.
  • webboowebboo Posts: 3,847
    john80 said:

    webboo said:

    john80 said:

    elbowloh said:

    john80 said:

    There are products from America that would be beneficial to us. It's not all steroid injected beef. Maybe be a bit smarter in the panning of US food products and pick the ones we like.

    Such as? Genuine question.

    We're already overwhelmed by their cultural exports. The cars are a piece of censored , they don't really make decent electrical goods (Apple products aren't made in the US). We get US beer and wine here also.
    Look around the UK. With the exception of the south west we are not overflowing with land suitable for crops. Presently we import a lot of this from Europe whilst America has something to offer. Round my way we can grow grass, cows and sheep. Not much of a balanced diet. Getting upset about pork products from America somewhat misses the point.
    You need to get out a bit more and visit places like Lincolnshire which is one large farm.

    They also seem to manage to grow things here in Yorkshire.
    Although in an upside down sort of way.
    How much harvesting do you get done in January.
    As much as I have always managed to do.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 16,836
    john80 said:

    webboo said:

    john80 said:

    elbowloh said:

    john80 said:

    There are products from America that would be beneficial to us. It's not all steroid injected beef. Maybe be a bit smarter in the panning of US food products and pick the ones we like.

    Such as? Genuine question.

    We're already overwhelmed by their cultural exports. The cars are a piece of censored , they don't really make decent electrical goods (Apple products aren't made in the US). We get US beer and wine here also.
    Look around the UK. With the exception of the south west we are not overflowing with land suitable for crops. Presently we import a lot of this from Europe whilst America has something to offer. Round my way we can grow grass, cows and sheep. Not much of a balanced diet. Getting upset about pork products from America somewhat misses the point.
    You need to get out a bit more and visit places like Lincolnshire which is one large farm.

    They also seem to manage to grow things here in Yorkshire.
    Although in an upside down sort of way.
    How much harvesting do you get done in January.
    Roughly the same as they do in the U.S.A.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 14,604
    john80 said:

    john80 said:

    morstar said:

    john80 said:

    elbowloh said:

    john80 said:

    There are products from America that would be beneficial to us. It's not all steroid injected beef. Maybe be a bit smarter in the panning of US food products and pick the ones we like.

    Such as? Genuine question.

    We're already overwhelmed by their cultural exports. The cars are a piece of censored , they don't really make decent electrical goods (Apple products aren't made in the US). We get US beer and wine here also.
    Look around the UK. With the exception of the south west we are not overflowing with land suitable for crops. Presently we import a lot of this from Europe whilst America has something to offer. Round my way we can grow grass, cows and sheep. Not much of a balanced diet. Getting upset about pork products from America somewhat misses the point.
    But we currently get food generally produced to high standards and in the UK specifically, we do place value on animal husbandry standards.
    The US food production is solely focussed on maximising efficiency with both quality and husbandry standards a very distant consideration.
    So should I be worried about US rapeseed oil or any of the other products that could be brought in tariff free from the US that would be in our consumers interests because of a reputation for other products.

    Do you think that the US would let the UK pick and choose just those products that it 'needs'?
    Currently we don't have a FTA with the US so are able to alter our import tax on items such as grains etc that we might need to import a lot of and don't have a great domestic supply of. This would be to the benefit of nations outside the EU in terms of sales and to us in reduced prices and as long as we are not harming a domestic market then there is little reason to not do so. If the UK thinks it is getting a trade deal with the US anytime soon it is kidding itself and the last 20 years have been working just fine. The only difference now is that we are not part of a club that seeks to distort competition to suit a few European member states that do very well out of the common agriculture policy.
    I think that I broadly agree with where you are coming from but you seem to be mixing up a few different issues.

    We could alter our tariffs on grains with the WTO which would allow the USA and everybody else to export to us.

    You mention "harming a domestic market" which I assume you mean domestic suppliers, if so they will be adversely affected. In this regard quotas would probably get a better outcome but I assume that is not possible without an FTA.

    "Everything working fine for 20 years" the fact that virtually every country spends so much time trying to strike trade deals should tell you that people all over the world with far more knowledge disagree with you. I am probably not the best person to lecture anybody on humility but you need to take a step back and ask yourself is it likely that they are all wrong and you are right?

    I hate the CAP and agree the EU distorts competition but you are over egging the link between the two.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 23,216

    Every chance the NI Assembly could collapse this week

    So that's nice

    Previously that's made things quite a lot easier to deal with though...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 23,216
    UK - Australia Trade Deal a Great Success - for Australia...

    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,402 Lives Here
    lol - it can be both tbf - the best trade agreements benefit both a lot.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 23,216
    True enough. Not hearing a great deal on the benefits to the UK today though...

    I'm sure our current government wouldn't crow on about a huge Brexit success story though...would they?

    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,076
    ddraver said:

    True enough. Not hearing a great deal on the benefits to the UK today though...

    I'm sure our current government wouldn't crow on about a huge Brexit success story though...would they?

    Easier work visas for Aus?
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 23,216
    Were they ever difficult?

    Half my uni class ended up there. The good and the...less good.

    Interesting that young people getting visas and moving around there world easily is a good thing again though
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 16,836
    ddraver said:

    Were they ever difficult?

    Half my uni class ended up there. The good and the...less good.

    Interesting that young people getting visas and moving around there world easily is a good thing again though

    Australia pretty much used to have an open door policy for under 25s.
    Check out the requirements for retiring there though. Cost/time prohibitive. Ageists! πŸ˜‰
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,076
    ddraver said:

    Were they ever difficult?

    Half my uni class ended up there. The good and the...less good.

    Interesting that young people getting visas and moving around there world easily is a good thing again though

    Yes. Working holiday visas were quite restrictive and only available to the young.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 23,216
    I've actually tried to find a serious answer to my question and it genuinely does seem to be that Australia has been given everything it's ever wanted from a trade deal for the "cost" of having British people aged 30 - 35 come and pay tax there instead of the UK for a bit longer, before returning home for NHS and social care.

    Bonza...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ProssPross Posts: 29,626
    edited 15 June
    pblakeney said:

    ddraver said:

    Were they ever difficult?

    Half my uni class ended up there. The good and the...less good.

    Interesting that young people getting visas and moving around there world easily is a good thing again though

    Australia pretty much used to have an open door policy for under 25s.
    Check out the requirements for retiring there though. Cost/time prohibitive. Ageists! πŸ˜‰
    Rick should move there, sounds like he'd love it.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 16,836
    Pross said:

    pblakeney said:

    ddraver said:

    Were they ever difficult?

    Half my uni class ended up there. The good and the...less good.

    Interesting that young people getting visas and moving around there world easily is a good thing again though

    Australia pretty much used to have an open door policy for under 25s.
    Check out the requirements for retiring there though. Cost/time prohibitive. Ageists! πŸ˜‰
    Rick should move there, sounds like he'd love it.
    He's missed that boat. Too old. 🀣
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,402 Lives Here
    pblakeney said:

    Pross said:

    pblakeney said:

    ddraver said:

    Were they ever difficult?

    Half my uni class ended up there. The good and the...less good.

    Interesting that young people getting visas and moving around there world easily is a good thing again though

    Australia pretty much used to have an open door policy for under 25s.
    Check out the requirements for retiring there though. Cost/time prohibitive. Ageists! πŸ˜‰
    Rick should move there, sounds like he'd love it.
    He's missed that boat. Too old. 🀣
    It would take about 25 years to go by boat!
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 16,836
    29-34 days apparently. Not that it matters. πŸ˜‰
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 17,790
    Just steal some bread, get a free trip.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 23,216
    Nah, that only gets you 10 years hard labour, a Mayorship of a French town and a top bill part in a musical these days...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 14,604
    There are so few details about our world beating new trade deal that I am starting to wonder if our PM prematurely testiculated
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 17,790
    edited 16 June
    ddraver said:

    Nah, that only gets you 10 years hard labour, a Mayorship of a French town and a top bill part in a musical these days...

    Not in Brexit Britain.

    We're all about Les Patterson instead now.
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