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BREXIT 2020 - Bye Bye Brussels. It's Been a Blast.🇬🇧

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  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 17,949


    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?

    Trusting the UK that it would abide by agreements it's signed 9 months prior?

    I think generally everyone sensible has underestimated the power and the revolutionary vigour of the eurosceptics in UK politics.

    It does seem that there's a close link between Brexit and wanting to go back to the pre-GFA state of affairs in NI: is it just because of some fixation on borders and tribalism?
    Some fairly influential people in government (Gove) refer to the GFA as a national humiliation for the UK, so go figure.
    an alternative answer is that Brexit united a broad church of people behind what they did not want but have no unity in where they are going.

    Some want to preserve the Union at all costs whereas others want a pure Brexit

    Boris may well have figured out that like May he has no majority for either course of action.
    That would explain the zigzagging on the IMB. Now they are saying they will use the dispute resolution process in the WA and save the provisions in the IMB for emergencies.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • rjsterry said:


    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?

    Trusting the UK that it would abide by agreements it's signed 9 months prior?

    I think generally everyone sensible has underestimated the power and the revolutionary vigour of the eurosceptics in UK politics.

    It does seem that there's a close link between Brexit and wanting to go back to the pre-GFA state of affairs in NI: is it just because of some fixation on borders and tribalism?
    Some fairly influential people in government (Gove) refer to the GFA as a national humiliation for the UK, so go figure.
    an alternative answer is that Brexit united a broad church of people behind what they did not want but have no unity in where they are going.

    Some want to preserve the Union at all costs whereas others want a pure Brexit

    Boris may well have figured out that like May he has no majority for either course of action.
    That would explain the zigzagging on the IMB. Now they are saying they will use the dispute resolution process in the WA and save the provisions in the IMB for emergencies.
    I'm sure the MPs can trust him not to go back on his word, so they can safely pass the IMB now as it is, and he won't use it or threaten to use it unless it's a last resort.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 10,675
    rjsterry said:


    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?

    Trusting the UK that it would abide by agreements it's signed 9 months prior?

    I think generally everyone sensible has underestimated the power and the revolutionary vigour of the eurosceptics in UK politics.

    It does seem that there's a close link between Brexit and wanting to go back to the pre-GFA state of affairs in NI: is it just because of some fixation on borders and tribalism?
    Some fairly influential people in government (Gove) refer to the GFA as a national humiliation for the UK, so go figure.
    an alternative answer is that Brexit united a broad church of people behind what they did not want but have no unity in where they are going.

    Some want to preserve the Union at all costs whereas others want a pure Brexit

    Boris may well have figured out that like May he has no majority for either course of action.
    That would explain the zigzagging on the IMB. Now they are saying they will use the dispute resolution process in the WA and save the provisions in the IMB for emergencies.
    That's just consistent with the idea that it was purely to make a lot of noise. Much like proroguing parliament.

  • rjsterry said:


    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?

    Trusting the UK that it would abide by agreements it's signed 9 months prior?

    I think generally everyone sensible has underestimated the power and the revolutionary vigour of the eurosceptics in UK politics.

    It does seem that there's a close link between Brexit and wanting to go back to the pre-GFA state of affairs in NI: is it just because of some fixation on borders and tribalism?
    Some fairly influential people in government (Gove) refer to the GFA as a national humiliation for the UK, so go figure.
    an alternative answer is that Brexit united a broad church of people behind what they did not want but have no unity in where they are going.

    Some want to preserve the Union at all costs whereas others want a pure Brexit

    Boris may well have figured out that like May he has no majority for either course of action.
    That would explain the zigzagging on the IMB. Now they are saying they will use the dispute resolution process in the WA and save the provisions in the IMB for emergencies.
    That's just consistent with the idea that it was purely to make a lot of noise. Much like proroguing parliament.

    making a lot of noise to cover a massive u-turn or to blame the EU for no-deal
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 10,675

    rjsterry said:


    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?

    Trusting the UK that it would abide by agreements it's signed 9 months prior?

    I think generally everyone sensible has underestimated the power and the revolutionary vigour of the eurosceptics in UK politics.

    It does seem that there's a close link between Brexit and wanting to go back to the pre-GFA state of affairs in NI: is it just because of some fixation on borders and tribalism?
    Some fairly influential people in government (Gove) refer to the GFA as a national humiliation for the UK, so go figure.
    an alternative answer is that Brexit united a broad church of people behind what they did not want but have no unity in where they are going.

    Some want to preserve the Union at all costs whereas others want a pure Brexit

    Boris may well have figured out that like May he has no majority for either course of action.
    That would explain the zigzagging on the IMB. Now they are saying they will use the dispute resolution process in the WA and save the provisions in the IMB for emergencies.
    That's just consistent with the idea that it was purely to make a lot of noise. Much like proroguing parliament.

    making a lot of noise to cover a massive u-turn or to blame the EU for no-deal
    To annoy the EU.
  • rjsterry said:


    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?

    Trusting the UK that it would abide by agreements it's signed 9 months prior?

    I think generally everyone sensible has underestimated the power and the revolutionary vigour of the eurosceptics in UK politics.

    It does seem that there's a close link between Brexit and wanting to go back to the pre-GFA state of affairs in NI: is it just because of some fixation on borders and tribalism?
    Some fairly influential people in government (Gove) refer to the GFA as a national humiliation for the UK, so go figure.
    an alternative answer is that Brexit united a broad church of people behind what they did not want but have no unity in where they are going.

    Some want to preserve the Union at all costs whereas others want a pure Brexit

    Boris may well have figured out that like May he has no majority for either course of action.
    That would explain the zigzagging on the IMB. Now they are saying they will use the dispute resolution process in the WA and save the provisions in the IMB for emergencies.
    That's just consistent with the idea that it was purely to make a lot of noise. Much like proroguing parliament.

    making a lot of noise to cover a massive u-turn or to blame the EU for no-deal
    To annoy the EU.
    for what purpose?
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 10,675

    rjsterry said:


    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?

    Trusting the UK that it would abide by agreements it's signed 9 months prior?

    I think generally everyone sensible has underestimated the power and the revolutionary vigour of the eurosceptics in UK politics.

    It does seem that there's a close link between Brexit and wanting to go back to the pre-GFA state of affairs in NI: is it just because of some fixation on borders and tribalism?
    Some fairly influential people in government (Gove) refer to the GFA as a national humiliation for the UK, so go figure.
    an alternative answer is that Brexit united a broad church of people behind what they did not want but have no unity in where they are going.

    Some want to preserve the Union at all costs whereas others want a pure Brexit

    Boris may well have figured out that like May he has no majority for either course of action.
    That would explain the zigzagging on the IMB. Now they are saying they will use the dispute resolution process in the WA and save the provisions in the IMB for emergencies.
    That's just consistent with the idea that it was purely to make a lot of noise. Much like proroguing parliament.

    making a lot of noise to cover a massive u-turn or to blame the EU for no-deal
    To annoy the EU.
    for what purpose?
    Reignite the talks, get the Joint Committee working etc. This is all guesswork, and many will say it has backfired, but if you look back at the proroguing of parliament it didn't really achieve anything other than annoying people.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 50,027 Lives Here



    Reignite the talks, get the Joint Committee working etc. This is all guesswork, and many will say it has backfired, but if you look back at the proroguing of parliament it didn't really achieve anything other than annoying people.

    That's because it was found to be against the law.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 41,726

    So should Biden if he wants to make an international point about it


    It's a long term failure of British and NI Unionist politicians that they are unable to have their position (whether you agree with or not) heard in other countries.

    Suggesting they haven't read it, or in the case of Pelosi mocking their misnaming of it, when they've already taken a position on it reminds me of the joke about Trump's latest incendiary tweet generating 100,000 grammatical corrections from Democrats


    Ireland definitely has the better PR team. I read an article on the extent they had gone to promote their point of view. Taking journalists on guided tours of the border etc.

    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?
    I'd be interested to hear those as well.
    Whippet
    Bruiser
    Panzer
    Commuter

    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 15,276
    Stevo_666 said:

    So should Biden if he wants to make an international point about it


    It's a long term failure of British and NI Unionist politicians that they are unable to have their position (whether you agree with or not) heard in other countries.

    Suggesting they haven't read it, or in the case of Pelosi mocking their misnaming of it, when they've already taken a position on it reminds me of the joke about Trump's latest incendiary tweet generating 100,000 grammatical corrections from Democrats


    Ireland definitely has the better PR team. I read an article on the extent they had gone to promote their point of view. Taking journalists on guided tours of the border etc.

    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?
    I'd be interested to hear those as well.

    So should Biden if he wants to make an international point about it


    It's a long term failure of British and NI Unionist politicians that they are unable to have their position (whether you agree with or not) heard in other countries.

    Suggesting they haven't read it, or in the case of Pelosi mocking their misnaming of it, when they've already taken a position on it reminds me of the joke about Trump's latest incendiary tweet generating 100,000 grammatical corrections from Democrats


    Ireland definitely has the better PR team. I read an article on the extent they had gone to promote their point of view. Taking journalists on guided tours of the border etc.

    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?
    At this stage, nothing more than not giving May the same exit clause as Boris to get the original backstop through.

    I may change my mind at later stage when we learn more about what's happening with the Joint Committee. There seems to be fundamental things that could have been done earlier to minimise the impact of the NIP. For example some sort of exemption for major retailers such as ASDA and Tesco that their deliveries would be assumed to be not at risk of moving into the single market.
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 10,675



    Reignite the talks, get the Joint Committee working etc. This is all guesswork, and many will say it has backfired, but if you look back at the proroguing of parliament it didn't really achieve anything other than annoying people.

    That's because it was found to be against the law.
    And nothing happened.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 41,726

    Stevo_666 said:

    So should Biden if he wants to make an international point about it


    It's a long term failure of British and NI Unionist politicians that they are unable to have their position (whether you agree with or not) heard in other countries.

    Suggesting they haven't read it, or in the case of Pelosi mocking their misnaming of it, when they've already taken a position on it reminds me of the joke about Trump's latest incendiary tweet generating 100,000 grammatical corrections from Democrats


    Ireland definitely has the better PR team. I read an article on the extent they had gone to promote their point of view. Taking journalists on guided tours of the border etc.

    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?
    I'd be interested to hear those as well.

    So should Biden if he wants to make an international point about it


    It's a long term failure of British and NI Unionist politicians that they are unable to have their position (whether you agree with or not) heard in other countries.

    Suggesting they haven't read it, or in the case of Pelosi mocking their misnaming of it, when they've already taken a position on it reminds me of the joke about Trump's latest incendiary tweet generating 100,000 grammatical corrections from Democrats


    Ireland definitely has the better PR team. I read an article on the extent they had gone to promote their point of view. Taking journalists on guided tours of the border etc.

    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?
    At this stage, nothing more than not giving May the same exit clause as Boris to get the original backstop through.

    I may change my mind at later stage when we learn more about what's happening with the Joint Committee. There seems to be fundamental things that could have been done earlier to minimise the impact of the NIP. For example some sort of exemption for major retailers such as ASDA and Tesco that their deliveries would be assumed to be not at risk of moving into the single market.
    Pretty mild then; not unexpected though.
    Whippet
    Bruiser
    Panzer
    Commuter

    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 17,949

    rjsterry said:


    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?

    Trusting the UK that it would abide by agreements it's signed 9 months prior?

    I think generally everyone sensible has underestimated the power and the revolutionary vigour of the eurosceptics in UK politics.

    It does seem that there's a close link between Brexit and wanting to go back to the pre-GFA state of affairs in NI: is it just because of some fixation on borders and tribalism?
    Some fairly influential people in government (Gove) refer to the GFA as a national humiliation for the UK, so go figure.
    an alternative answer is that Brexit united a broad church of people behind what they did not want but have no unity in where they are going.

    Some want to preserve the Union at all costs whereas others want a pure Brexit

    Boris may well have figured out that like May he has no majority for either course of action.
    That would explain the zigzagging on the IMB. Now they are saying they will use the dispute resolution process in the WA and save the provisions in the IMB for emergencies.
    That's just consistent with the idea that it was purely to make a lot of noise. Much like proroguing parliament.

    making a lot of noise to cover a massive u-turn or to blame the EU for no-deal
    To annoy the EU.
    I suspect it's more to keep the head bangers on side by appearing to annoy the EU. Don't forget Cummings thinks they're all idiots. Someone described it as the Conservative party negotiating with itself, which seems to be not far off.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 15,276
    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    So should Biden if he wants to make an international point about it


    It's a long term failure of British and NI Unionist politicians that they are unable to have their position (whether you agree with or not) heard in other countries.

    Suggesting they haven't read it, or in the case of Pelosi mocking their misnaming of it, when they've already taken a position on it reminds me of the joke about Trump's latest incendiary tweet generating 100,000 grammatical corrections from Democrats


    Ireland definitely has the better PR team. I read an article on the extent they had gone to promote their point of view. Taking journalists on guided tours of the border etc.

    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?
    I'd be interested to hear those as well.

    So should Biden if he wants to make an international point about it


    It's a long term failure of British and NI Unionist politicians that they are unable to have their position (whether you agree with or not) heard in other countries.

    Suggesting they haven't read it, or in the case of Pelosi mocking their misnaming of it, when they've already taken a position on it reminds me of the joke about Trump's latest incendiary tweet generating 100,000 grammatical corrections from Democrats


    Ireland definitely has the better PR team. I read an article on the extent they had gone to promote their point of view. Taking journalists on guided tours of the border etc.

    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?
    At this stage, nothing more than not giving May the same exit clause as Boris to get the original backstop through.

    I may change my mind at later stage when we learn more about what's happening with the Joint Committee. There seems to be fundamental things that could have been done earlier to minimise the impact of the NIP. For example some sort of exemption for major retailers such as ASDA and Tesco that their deliveries would be assumed to be not at risk of moving into the single market.
    Pretty mild then; not unexpected though.
    What do you think they got wrong?

    Obviously I'm disregarding their insistence on there being no change at the Irish border. Its true to say
    that that shaped the whole process, and a deal would have been much easier without it, but I don't know that their red line can be defined as a 'mistake'
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 50,027 Lives Here
    Trump administration follows Biden - they're on the same page on this.
  • Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    So should Biden if he wants to make an international point about it


    It's a long term failure of British and NI Unionist politicians that they are unable to have their position (whether you agree with or not) heard in other countries.

    Suggesting they haven't read it, or in the case of Pelosi mocking their misnaming of it, when they've already taken a position on it reminds me of the joke about Trump's latest incendiary tweet generating 100,000 grammatical corrections from Democrats


    Ireland definitely has the better PR team. I read an article on the extent they had gone to promote their point of view. Taking journalists on guided tours of the border etc.

    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?
    I'd be interested to hear those as well.

    So should Biden if he wants to make an international point about it


    It's a long term failure of British and NI Unionist politicians that they are unable to have their position (whether you agree with or not) heard in other countries.

    Suggesting they haven't read it, or in the case of Pelosi mocking their misnaming of it, when they've already taken a position on it reminds me of the joke about Trump's latest incendiary tweet generating 100,000 grammatical corrections from Democrats


    Ireland definitely has the better PR team. I read an article on the extent they had gone to promote their point of view. Taking journalists on guided tours of the border etc.

    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?
    At this stage, nothing more than not giving May the same exit clause as Boris to get the original backstop through.

    I may change my mind at later stage when we learn more about what's happening with the Joint Committee. There seems to be fundamental things that could have been done earlier to minimise the impact of the NIP. For example some sort of exemption for major retailers such as ASDA and Tesco that their deliveries would be assumed to be not at risk of moving into the single market.
    Pretty mild then; not unexpected though.
    What do you think they got wrong?

    Obviously I'm disregarding their insistence on there being no change at the Irish border. Its true to say
    that that shaped the whole process, and a deal would have been much easier without it, but I don't know that their red line can be defined as a 'mistake'
    if both sides cared about the issue then negotiating the WA in conjunction with the future relationship would have made far more sense.

    difficult to say that was a mistake by the EU as their strategy may have been to use the Irish border as the anvil on which to break us
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 50,027 Lives Here
    edited 18 September

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    So should Biden if he wants to make an international point about it


    It's a long term failure of British and NI Unionist politicians that they are unable to have their position (whether you agree with or not) heard in other countries.

    Suggesting they haven't read it, or in the case of Pelosi mocking their misnaming of it, when they've already taken a position on it reminds me of the joke about Trump's latest incendiary tweet generating 100,000 grammatical corrections from Democrats


    Ireland definitely has the better PR team. I read an article on the extent they had gone to promote their point of view. Taking journalists on guided tours of the border etc.

    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?
    I'd be interested to hear those as well.

    So should Biden if he wants to make an international point about it


    It's a long term failure of British and NI Unionist politicians that they are unable to have their position (whether you agree with or not) heard in other countries.

    Suggesting they haven't read it, or in the case of Pelosi mocking their misnaming of it, when they've already taken a position on it reminds me of the joke about Trump's latest incendiary tweet generating 100,000 grammatical corrections from Democrats


    Ireland definitely has the better PR team. I read an article on the extent they had gone to promote their point of view. Taking journalists on guided tours of the border etc.

    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?
    At this stage, nothing more than not giving May the same exit clause as Boris to get the original backstop through.

    I may change my mind at later stage when we learn more about what's happening with the Joint Committee. There seems to be fundamental things that could have been done earlier to minimise the impact of the NIP. For example some sort of exemption for major retailers such as ASDA and Tesco that their deliveries would be assumed to be not at risk of moving into the single market.
    Pretty mild then; not unexpected though.
    What do you think they got wrong?

    Obviously I'm disregarding their insistence on there being no change at the Irish border. Its true to say
    that that shaped the whole process, and a deal would have been much easier without it, but I don't know that their red line can be defined as a 'mistake'
    if both sides cared about the issue then negotiating the WA in conjunction with the future relationship would have made far more sense.

    difficult to say that was a mistake by the EU as their strategy may have been to use the Irish border as the anvil on which to break us
    EU must look after its own - that is surely the point of it, and arguably, one of the legitimate criticisms levelled against it is that it doesn't do that enough, so surely this is a good opportunity to show what solidarity to Ireland, a member, is versus UK, who isn't, looks like?
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 11,317
    edited 18 September
    Who would think it would be hard to find a solution to a=b, b=c, a≠c
  • Who would think it would be hard to find a solution to a=b, b=c, a≠c

    as the old saying goes, making decisions is easy the hard part is making a decision when all options are bad.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 50,027 Lives Here
    edited 18 September

    Who would think it would be hard to find a solution to a=b, b=c, a≠c

    as the old saying goes, making decisions is easy the hard part is making a decision when all options are bad.
    Brino is a sensible options and will satisfy all but the most extreme people on either side - ie what a good compromise looks like.

    As the U.K. has demonstrated it is “sovereign” so it can always chose to roll back various things when it sees fit, without such a damaclean negotiating environment
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 10,675
    The town of Ponta Porã is on the border between Brazil and Paraguay. The border runs pretty much down the high street. On one side they speak Portguese and use Reais and the other Spanish and use Guaranis. Immigration runs an office in the outskirts that you need to seek out.

    My only point is that not all borders are alike.

    The border between France and Brazil is similar too.
  • Who would think it would be hard to find a solution to a=b, b=c, a≠c

    as the old saying goes, making decisions is easy the hard part is making a decision when all options are bad.
    Brino is a sensible options and will satisfy all but the most extreme people on either side - ie what a good compromise looks like.

    As the U.K. has demonstrated it is “sovereign” so it can always chose to roll back various things when it sees fit, without such a damaclean negotiating environment
    This is the 3rd stage of loss - bargaining...
    Fair-weather commuter
    Canyon Ultimate CF 8.0 in Black
  • Who would think it would be hard to find a solution to a=b, b=c, a≠c

    as the old saying goes, making decisions is easy the hard part is making a decision when all options are bad.
    Brino is a sensible options and will satisfy all but the most extreme people on either side - ie what a good compromise looks like.

    As the U.K. has demonstrated it is “sovereign” so it can always chose to roll back various things when it sees fit, without such a damaclean negotiating environment
    This is the 3rd stage of loss - bargaining...
    Yes, that ship sailed some time ago. We're all stuck with brex$hit now. It's what we make of it now.
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 15,276

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    So should Biden if he wants to make an international point about it


    It's a long term failure of British and NI Unionist politicians that they are unable to have their position (whether you agree with or not) heard in other countries.

    Suggesting they haven't read it, or in the case of Pelosi mocking their misnaming of it, when they've already taken a position on it reminds me of the joke about Trump's latest incendiary tweet generating 100,000 grammatical corrections from Democrats


    Ireland definitely has the better PR team. I read an article on the extent they had gone to promote their point of view. Taking journalists on guided tours of the border etc.

    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?
    I'd be interested to hear those as well.

    So should Biden if he wants to make an international point about it


    It's a long term failure of British and NI Unionist politicians that they are unable to have their position (whether you agree with or not) heard in other countries.

    Suggesting they haven't read it, or in the case of Pelosi mocking their misnaming of it, when they've already taken a position on it reminds me of the joke about Trump's latest incendiary tweet generating 100,000 grammatical corrections from Democrats


    Ireland definitely has the better PR team. I read an article on the extent they had gone to promote their point of view. Taking journalists on guided tours of the border etc.

    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?
    At this stage, nothing more than not giving May the same exit clause as Boris to get the original backstop through.

    I may change my mind at later stage when we learn more about what's happening with the Joint Committee. There seems to be fundamental things that could have been done earlier to minimise the impact of the NIP. For example some sort of exemption for major retailers such as ASDA and Tesco that their deliveries would be assumed to be not at risk of moving into the single market.
    Pretty mild then; not unexpected though.
    What do you think they got wrong?

    Obviously I'm disregarding their insistence on there being no change at the Irish border. Its true to say
    that that shaped the whole process, and a deal would have been much easier without it, but I don't know that their red line can be defined as a 'mistake'
    if both sides cared about the issue then negotiating the WA in conjunction with the future relationship would have made far more sense.

    difficult to say that was a mistake by the EU as their strategy may have been to use the Irish border as the anvil on which to break us
    Ok.

    It's 2018

    EU have left the border out of the Withdrawal Agreement.

    What happens next?
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • morstarmorstar Posts: 3,254

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    So should Biden if he wants to make an international point about it


    It's a long term failure of British and NI Unionist politicians that they are unable to have their position (whether you agree with or not) heard in other countries.

    Suggesting they haven't read it, or in the case of Pelosi mocking their misnaming of it, when they've already taken a position on it reminds me of the joke about Trump's latest incendiary tweet generating 100,000 grammatical corrections from Democrats


    Ireland definitely has the better PR team. I read an article on the extent they had gone to promote their point of view. Taking journalists on guided tours of the border etc.

    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?
    I'd be interested to hear those as well.

    So should Biden if he wants to make an international point about it


    It's a long term failure of British and NI Unionist politicians that they are unable to have their position (whether you agree with or not) heard in other countries.

    Suggesting they haven't read it, or in the case of Pelosi mocking their misnaming of it, when they've already taken a position on it reminds me of the joke about Trump's latest incendiary tweet generating 100,000 grammatical corrections from Democrats


    Ireland definitely has the better PR team. I read an article on the extent they had gone to promote their point of view. Taking journalists on guided tours of the border etc.

    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?
    At this stage, nothing more than not giving May the same exit clause as Boris to get the original backstop through.

    I may change my mind at later stage when we learn more about what's happening with the Joint Committee. There seems to be fundamental things that could have been done earlier to minimise the impact of the NIP. For example some sort of exemption for major retailers such as ASDA and Tesco that their deliveries would be assumed to be not at risk of moving into the single market.
    Pretty mild then; not unexpected though.
    What do you think they got wrong?

    Obviously I'm disregarding their insistence on there being no change at the Irish border. Its true to say
    that that shaped the whole process, and a deal would have been much easier without it, but I don't know that their red line can be defined as a 'mistake'
    if both sides cared about the issue then negotiating the WA in conjunction with the future relationship would have made far more sense.

    difficult to say that was a mistake by the EU as their strategy may have been to use the Irish border as the anvil on which to break us
    Ok.

    It's 2018

    EU have left the border out of the Withdrawal Agreement.

    What happens next?
    We’d still be struggling with how the border would work.

    Without NI, Brexit would have been done and dusted for better or worse 2 years ago.

    Whether it’s hard coded into the agreement explicitly or not, it is a de facto issue with different laws and standards on either side of an open border.

    I don’t like Brexit but it is perfectly deliverable without NI.
  • Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    So should Biden if he wants to make an international point about it


    It's a long term failure of British and NI Unionist politicians that they are unable to have their position (whether you agree with or not) heard in other countries.

    Suggesting they haven't read it, or in the case of Pelosi mocking their misnaming of it, when they've already taken a position on it reminds me of the joke about Trump's latest incendiary tweet generating 100,000 grammatical corrections from Democrats


    Ireland definitely has the better PR team. I read an article on the extent they had gone to promote their point of view. Taking journalists on guided tours of the border etc.

    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?
    I'd be interested to hear those as well.

    So should Biden if he wants to make an international point about it


    It's a long term failure of British and NI Unionist politicians that they are unable to have their position (whether you agree with or not) heard in other countries.

    Suggesting they haven't read it, or in the case of Pelosi mocking their misnaming of it, when they've already taken a position on it reminds me of the joke about Trump's latest incendiary tweet generating 100,000 grammatical corrections from Democrats


    Ireland definitely has the better PR team. I read an article on the extent they had gone to promote their point of view. Taking journalists on guided tours of the border etc.

    Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?
    At this stage, nothing more than not giving May the same exit clause as Boris to get the original backstop through.

    I may change my mind at later stage when we learn more about what's happening with the Joint Committee. There seems to be fundamental things that could have been done earlier to minimise the impact of the NIP. For example some sort of exemption for major retailers such as ASDA and Tesco that their deliveries would be assumed to be not at risk of moving into the single market.
    Pretty mild then; not unexpected though.
    What do you think they got wrong?

    Obviously I'm disregarding their insistence on there being no change at the Irish border. Its true to say
    that that shaped the whole process, and a deal would have been much easier without it, but I don't know that their red line can be defined as a 'mistake'
    if both sides cared about the issue then negotiating the WA in conjunction with the future relationship would have made far more sense.

    difficult to say that was a mistake by the EU as their strategy may have been to use the Irish border as the anvil on which to break us
    Ok.

    It's 2018

    EU have left the border out of the Withdrawal Agreement.

    What happens next?
    I get where you are coming from but my brain can’t cope with TM being PM as she would have won the vote.

    Would the loons have calmed down after getting Brexit done and allowed a comprehensive free trade deal that would have solved the border problem?

    To me we should have the same border as at Dover but I would get that through EEA membership.
  • Fairly vanilla article in the ST about UK banks writing to ex-pat customers telling them that from 31st Dec they will no longer be licensed.

    Over a thousand angry comments;
    Unpatriotic ex-pats can FRO
    EU can not tell a UK bank what to do and can FRO

    An endless diatribe of angry denial and incomprehension of the issues,

    It would indicate that Boris has given up on passporting and the banks will chose their markets
  • morstarmorstar Posts: 3,254

    Fairly vanilla article in the ST about UK banks writing to ex-pat customers telling them that from 31st Dec they will no longer be licensed.

    Over a thousand angry comments;
    Unpatriotic ex-pats can FRO
    EU can not tell a UK bank what to do and can FRO

    An endless diatribe of angry denial and incomprehension of the issues,

    It would indicate that Boris has given up on passporting and the banks will chose their markets

    @ immigrants. Deserve everything they get.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 10,675

    Fairly vanilla article in the ST about UK banks writing to ex-pat customers telling them that from 31st Dec they will no longer be licensed.

    Over a thousand angry comments;
    Unpatriotic ex-pats can FRO
    EU can not tell a UK bank what to do and can FRO

    An endless diatribe of angry denial and incomprehension of the issues,

    It would indicate that Boris has given up on passporting and the banks will chose their markets

    They'll be a few bigger issues than angry expats.
  • Fairly vanilla article in the ST about UK banks writing to ex-pat customers telling them that from 31st Dec they will no longer be licensed.

    Over a thousand angry comments;
    Unpatriotic ex-pats can FRO
    EU can not tell a UK bank what to do and can FRO

    An endless diatribe of angry denial and incomprehension of the issues,

    It would indicate that Boris has given up on passporting and the banks will chose their markets

    They'll be a few bigger issues than angry expats.
    I naively thought that it made it easy to understand the issue of passporting, I was rather surprised at how angry and clueless Leave voting online Times subscribers are.

    Boris really need not worry about lorry parks in Kent as the response will be that is everybody elses fault and the solution is to do it back to them
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