BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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that is a really good question.Stevo_666 said:
Not really thought about it. I'm sure thats a fairly complex point in its own right.kingstongraham said:
Do you think closer union in the EU is overall good or bad for the UK?Stevo_666 said:
Jealous of what? I definitely don't want to be part of a Federal Europe.rick_chasey said:
OMG we literally had this discussion about 2 weeks ago.Stevo_666 said:
The common debt point was definitely crossing a line and is a victory for the likes of Macron who are open about wanting a Federal Europe. The COVID crisis was something that nobody could have foreseen, but it seems that the federalists have seized on their chance and good luck to the EU if that's what they really want.coopster_the_1st said:We all knew the EU wanted further integration, yet many turned a blind eye to this and voted Remain.
Those who voted Leave have saved the UK.
My view at the time of the referendum was that we could stop this sort of thing by wielding the veto and rallying support amongst like minded member States. However if it had been a choice between leave and a Federal Europe (rather than simply remain), then I think the leave majority would have been much larger.
THEY CAN ONLY DO THIS BECAUSE THE UK HAS ALREADY LEFT.
You're like the jealous husband who now insists because his ex-wife is dating other men that she always wanted to cheat.
I don't disagree that the EU has more scope to integrate without the UK as we were often a 'blocker'. That's up to the EU and the remaining member states now.
Anything that helps are nearest neighbour and largest trading partner prosper has to be a good thing for the UK which begs the question will it be good for them economically.
The downside is that the EU allows integration by erecting external barriers which may get higher with closer union0 -
Barriers are going up in the three big markets for the foreseeable.
This has been *very well signposted*
UK is definitely zigging when the rest of the geopolitical world is zagging.0 -
Overall, I think it will be negative, caused by the uncertainty created in the EU.Stevo_666 said:
Not really thought about it. I'm sure thats a fairly complex point in its own right.kingstongraham said:
Do you think closer union in the EU is overall good or bad for the UK?Stevo_666 said:
Jealous of what? I definitely don't want to be part of a Federal Europe.rick_chasey said:
OMG we literally had this discussion about 2 weeks ago.Stevo_666 said:
The common debt point was definitely crossing a line and is a victory for the likes of Macron who are open about wanting a Federal Europe. The COVID crisis was something that nobody could have foreseen, but it seems that the federalists have seized on their chance and good luck to the EU if that's what they really want.coopster_the_1st said:We all knew the EU wanted further integration, yet many turned a blind eye to this and voted Remain.
Those who voted Leave have saved the UK.
My view at the time of the referendum was that we could stop this sort of thing by wielding the veto and rallying support amongst like minded member States. However if it had been a choice between leave and a Federal Europe (rather than simply remain), then I think the leave majority would have been much larger.
THEY CAN ONLY DO THIS BECAUSE THE UK HAS ALREADY LEFT.
You're like the jealous husband who now insists because his ex-wife is dating other men that she always wanted to cheat.
I don't disagree that the EU has more scope to integrate without the UK as we were often a 'blocker'. That's up to the EU and the remaining member states now.
The infighting and further referendums lost in EU countries will all create further uncertainty inside the EU.
The federalists still do not get it. The more they try to pull others into their system, against their will, the more push back they will get and some will eventually leave their ideology.0 -
If only there was at least one large and powerful country in the EU with the will to push back against the federalists, eh?coopster_the_1st said:
Overall, I think it will be negative, caused by the uncertainty created in the EU.Stevo_666 said:
Not really thought about it. I'm sure thats a fairly complex point in its own right.kingstongraham said:
Do you think closer union in the EU is overall good or bad for the UK?Stevo_666 said:
Jealous of what? I definitely don't want to be part of a Federal Europe.rick_chasey said:
OMG we literally had this discussion about 2 weeks ago.Stevo_666 said:
The common debt point was definitely crossing a line and is a victory for the likes of Macron who are open about wanting a Federal Europe. The COVID crisis was something that nobody could have foreseen, but it seems that the federalists have seized on their chance and good luck to the EU if that's what they really want.coopster_the_1st said:We all knew the EU wanted further integration, yet many turned a blind eye to this and voted Remain.
Those who voted Leave have saved the UK.
My view at the time of the referendum was that we could stop this sort of thing by wielding the veto and rallying support amongst like minded member States. However if it had been a choice between leave and a Federal Europe (rather than simply remain), then I think the leave majority would have been much larger.
THEY CAN ONLY DO THIS BECAUSE THE UK HAS ALREADY LEFT.
You're like the jealous husband who now insists because his ex-wife is dating other men that she always wanted to cheat.
I don't disagree that the EU has more scope to integrate without the UK as we were often a 'blocker'. That's up to the EU and the remaining member states now.
The infighting and further referendums lost in EU countries will all create further uncertainty inside the EU.
The federalists still do not get it. The more they try to pull others into their system, against their will, the more push back they will get and some will eventually leave their ideology.
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Of course it is. Just Stevo being Stevo.rick_chasey said:I know dyslexics have a penchant for spotting patterns and analogies in everything, but bomp, back me up, that's a sensible analogy in context, right?
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A more integrated and federal EU will of course make it much more difficult for any country to leave which depending on how Brexit turns out will mean either no country wants to try it or a few will. Its a perfect storm for the EU to push a agenda!0
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The electorate could not trust the politicians to perform this task as they were way out of touch with the view of the electorate.bompington said:
If only there was at least one large and powerful country in the EU with the will to push back against the federalists, eh?coopster_the_1st said:
Overall, I think it will be negative, caused by the uncertainty created in the EU.Stevo_666 said:
Not really thought about it. I'm sure thats a fairly complex point in its own right.kingstongraham said:
Do you think closer union in the EU is overall good or bad for the UK?Stevo_666 said:
Jealous of what? I definitely don't want to be part of a Federal Europe.rick_chasey said:
OMG we literally had this discussion about 2 weeks ago.Stevo_666 said:
The common debt point was definitely crossing a line and is a victory for the likes of Macron who are open about wanting a Federal Europe. The COVID crisis was something that nobody could have foreseen, but it seems that the federalists have seized on their chance and good luck to the EU if that's what they really want.coopster_the_1st said:We all knew the EU wanted further integration, yet many turned a blind eye to this and voted Remain.
Those who voted Leave have saved the UK.
My view at the time of the referendum was that we could stop this sort of thing by wielding the veto and rallying support amongst like minded member States. However if it had been a choice between leave and a Federal Europe (rather than simply remain), then I think the leave majority would have been much larger.
THEY CAN ONLY DO THIS BECAUSE THE UK HAS ALREADY LEFT.
You're like the jealous husband who now insists because his ex-wife is dating other men that she always wanted to cheat.
I don't disagree that the EU has more scope to integrate without the UK as we were often a 'blocker'. That's up to the EU and the remaining member states now.
The infighting and further referendums lost in EU countries will all create further uncertainty inside the EU.
The federalists still do not get it. The more they try to pull others into their system, against their will, the more push back they will get and some will eventually leave their ideology.
Fortunately the electorate were asked and they took back control of the situation
This decision has saved the tax payers in the UK at least £70bn already0 -
Is the EU falling apart or turning into a federal superstate today?
Hard to keep track.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Not sure why you need Uncle Bompy to give you a bit of comfort on this one?rick_chasey said:I know dyslexics have a penchant for spotting patterns and analogies in everything, but bomp, back me up, that's a sensible analogy in context, right?
Anyhow, as to your point that they can only do this because the UK has left, of course it makes it easier to integrate without those awkward Brits. However we knew that the desire to go in that direction was always there.
The jealousy point is still irrelevant however. Its a choice for the EU."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Perhaps it's more like leaving your wife, seeing her get on with her life and saying "I was right to leave her - I always knew she wanted to shag other guys".Stevo_666 said:
Not sure why you need Uncle Bompy to give you a bit of comfort on this one?rick_chasey said:I know dyslexics have a penchant for spotting patterns and analogies in everything, but bomp, back me up, that's a sensible analogy in context, right?
Anyhow, as to your point that they can only do this because the UK has left, of course it makes it easier to integrate without those awkward Brits. However we knew that the desire to go in that direction was always there.
The jealousy point is still irrelevant however. Its a choice for the EU.0 -
Really, no - that's not how I see it. It might be how Rick sees it, but as I've said he is no mind reader.kingstongraham said:
Perhaps it's more like leaving your wife, seeing her get on with her life and saying "I was right to leave her - I always knew she wanted to shag other guys".Stevo_666 said:
Not sure why you need Uncle Bompy to give you a bit of comfort on this one?rick_chasey said:I know dyslexics have a penchant for spotting patterns and analogies in everything, but bomp, back me up, that's a sensible analogy in context, right?
Anyhow, as to your point that they can only do this because the UK has left, of course it makes it easier to integrate without those awkward Brits. However we knew that the desire to go in that direction was always there.
The jealousy point is still irrelevant however. Its a choice for the EU."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/20/eu-rejects-british-plan-for-post-brexit-return-of-asylum-seekersEU negotiators have rejected a British request for a migration pact that would allow the government to return asylum seekers to other European countries.
When the Brexit transition period expires on 31 December, the government will lose the right to transfer refugees and migrants to the EU country in which they arrived, a cornerstone of the European asylum system known as the Dublin regulation.
The government is seeking to replicate the European system outside the bloc, although the Home Office has complained that the EU rules are “rigid, inflexible and abused by migrants and activist lawyers”.
The Guardian has learned that EU member states have ruled out a British plan to recreate the Dublin system outside the EU
lol0 -
you should write to all concerned to tell them that this does not existrick_chasey said:EU negotiators have rejected a British request for a migration pact that would allow the government to return asylum seekers to other European countries.
When the Brexit transition period expires on 31 December, the government will lose the right to transfer refugees and migrants to the EU country in which they arrived, a cornerstone of the European asylum system known as the Dublin regulation.
The government is seeking to replicate the European system outside the bloc, although the Home Office has complained that the EU rules are “rigid, inflexible and abused by migrants and activist lawyers”.
The Guardian has learned that EU member states have ruled out a British plan to recreate the Dublin system outside the EU
lol
so we have taken back control to ask for what we had before and be told no
more importantly, why did we think that they would agree?0 -
Because there have been more Dublin agreement asylum seekers transferred to the UK than there are transferred from the UK?surrey_commuter said:
you should write to all concerned to tell them that this does not existrick_chasey said:EU negotiators have rejected a British request for a migration pact that would allow the government to return asylum seekers to other European countries.
When the Brexit transition period expires on 31 December, the government will lose the right to transfer refugees and migrants to the EU country in which they arrived, a cornerstone of the European asylum system known as the Dublin regulation.
The government is seeking to replicate the European system outside the bloc, although the Home Office has complained that the EU rules are “rigid, inflexible and abused by migrants and activist lawyers”.
The Guardian has learned that EU member states have ruled out a British plan to recreate the Dublin system outside the EU
lol
so we have taken back control to ask for what we had before and be told no
more importantly, why did we think that they would agree?0 -
From the 2018 numbers, the UK actually gains on this numbers wise. It is shocking that we only return 4% under this agreement though while we accept 63%kingstongraham said:
Because there have been more Dublin agreement asylum seekers transferred to the UK than there are transferred from the UK?surrey_commuter said:
you should write to all concerned to tell them that this does not existrick_chasey said:EU negotiators have rejected a British request for a migration pact that would allow the government to return asylum seekers to other European countries.
When the Brexit transition period expires on 31 December, the government will lose the right to transfer refugees and migrants to the EU country in which they arrived, a cornerstone of the European asylum system known as the Dublin regulation.
The government is seeking to replicate the European system outside the bloc, although the Home Office has complained that the EU rules are “rigid, inflexible and abused by migrants and activist lawyers”.
The Guardian has learned that EU member states have ruled out a British plan to recreate the Dublin system outside the EU
lol
so we have taken back control to ask for what we had before and be told no
more importantly, why did we think that they would agree?
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Then why would we care?kingstongraham said:
Because there have been more Dublin agreement asylum seekers transferred to the UK than there are transferred from the UK?surrey_commuter said:
you should write to all concerned to tell them that this does not existrick_chasey said:EU negotiators have rejected a British request for a migration pact that would allow the government to return asylum seekers to other European countries.
When the Brexit transition period expires on 31 December, the government will lose the right to transfer refugees and migrants to the EU country in which they arrived, a cornerstone of the European asylum system known as the Dublin regulation.
The government is seeking to replicate the European system outside the bloc, although the Home Office has complained that the EU rules are “rigid, inflexible and abused by migrants and activist lawyers”.
The Guardian has learned that EU member states have ruled out a British plan to recreate the Dublin system outside the EU
lol
so we have taken back control to ask for what we had before and be told no
more importantly, why did we think that they would agree?
0 -
It's only shocking if you don't understand basic geography and maths.coopster_the_1st said:
From the 2018 numbers, the UK actually gains on this numbers wise. It is shocking that we only return 4% under this agreement though while we accept 63%kingstongraham said:
Because there have been more Dublin agreement asylum seekers transferred to the UK than there are transferred from the UK?surrey_commuter said:
you should write to all concerned to tell them that this does not existrick_chasey said:EU negotiators have rejected a British request for a migration pact that would allow the government to return asylum seekers to other European countries.
When the Brexit transition period expires on 31 December, the government will lose the right to transfer refugees and migrants to the EU country in which they arrived, a cornerstone of the European asylum system known as the Dublin regulation.
The government is seeking to replicate the European system outside the bloc, although the Home Office has complained that the EU rules are “rigid, inflexible and abused by migrants and activist lawyers”.
The Guardian has learned that EU member states have ruled out a British plan to recreate the Dublin system outside the EU
lol
so we have taken back control to ask for what we had before and be told no
more importantly, why did we think that they would agree?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Brexit and Coronavirus intersect again following the controversial revelation that 80 members of the Oireachtas (Irish Parliament) Golf Society met for a dinner in breach of Coronavirus regulations.
Among those in attendance, Phil Hogan, EU trade commissioner.
The Taoiseach and Tanaiste have suggested he consider his position. Hogan has reminded the Taoiseach and Tanaiste that he doesn't work for them.
Speculation that Varadkar fancies the job.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Presumably when Barnier gets moved aside a second time and some form of compromise is needed?tailwindhome said:.
Speculation that Varadkar fancies the job.0 -
It does intrigue me that Barnier is seen as some all powerful being with unilateral powers whereas Frost is seen as a paid negotiator doing the bidding of his masters.TheBigBean said:
Presumably when Barnier gets moved aside a second time and some form of compromise is needed?tailwindhome said:.
Speculation that Varadkar fancies the job.0 -
He's a politican and wants to be seen that way.surrey_commuter said:
It does intrigue me that Barnier is seen as some all powerful being with unilateral powers whereas Frost is seen as a paid negotiator doing the bidding of his masters.TheBigBean said:
Presumably when Barnier gets moved aside a second time and some form of compromise is needed?tailwindhome said:.
Speculation that Varadkar fancies the job.0 -
In a further twist it seems that Hogan travelled to Kildare which is under lockdown before travelling onward to the golf dinner.tailwindhome said:Brexit and Coronavirus intersect again following the controversial revelation that 80 members of the Oireachtas (Irish Parliament) Golf Society met for a dinner in breach of Coronavirus regulations.
Among those in attendance, Phil Hogan, EU trade commissioner.
The Taoiseach and Tanaiste have suggested he consider his position. Hogan has reminded the Taoiseach and Tanaiste that he doesn't work for them.
Speculation that Varadkar fancies the job.
He only stopped in Kildare when he was stopped by the Garda for driving will using his mobile.
On the plus side it seems he won a George Foreman grill in the dinner raffle..
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
He's probably also chuckling away about his democractic accountability.tailwindhome said:
In a further twist it seems that Hogan travelled to Kildare which is under lockdown before travelling onward to the golf dinner.tailwindhome said:Brexit and Coronavirus intersect again following the controversial revelation that 80 members of the Oireachtas (Irish Parliament) Golf Society met for a dinner in breach of Coronavirus regulations.
Among those in attendance, Phil Hogan, EU trade commissioner.
The Taoiseach and Tanaiste have suggested he consider his position. Hogan has reminded the Taoiseach and Tanaiste that he doesn't work for them.
Speculation that Varadkar fancies the job.
He only stopped in Kildare when he was stopped by the Garda for driving will using his mobile.
On the plus side it seems he won a George Foreman grill in the dinner raffle..1 -
TheBigBean said:
He's probably also chuckling away about his democractic accountability.tailwindhome said:
In a further twist it seems that Hogan travelled to Kildare which is under lockdown before travelling onward to the golf dinner.tailwindhome said:Brexit and Coronavirus intersect again following the controversial revelation that 80 members of the Oireachtas (Irish Parliament) Golf Society met for a dinner in breach of Coronavirus regulations.
Among those in attendance, Phil Hogan, EU trade commissioner.
The Taoiseach and Tanaiste have suggested he consider his position. Hogan has reminded the Taoiseach and Tanaiste that he doesn't work for them.
Speculation that Varadkar fancies the job.
He only stopped in Kildare when he was stopped by the Garda for driving will using his mobile.
On the plus side it seems he won a George Foreman grill in the dinner raffle..
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
That will not change the outcome of the negotiations. He is the mouthpiece for a position agreed by committeeTheBigBean said:
He's a politican and wants to be seen that way.surrey_commuter said:
It does intrigue me that Barnier is seen as some all powerful being with unilateral powers whereas Frost is seen as a paid negotiator doing the bidding of his masters.TheBigBean said:
Presumably when Barnier gets moved aside a second time and some form of compromise is needed?tailwindhome said:.
Speculation that Varadkar fancies the job.1 -
...hence the inflexibility.surrey_commuter said:
That will not change the outcome of the negotiations. He is the mouthpiece for a position agreed by committeeTheBigBean said:
He's a politican and wants to be seen that way.surrey_commuter said:
It does intrigue me that Barnier is seen as some all powerful being with unilateral powers whereas Frost is seen as a paid negotiator doing the bidding of his masters.TheBigBean said:
Presumably when Barnier gets moved aside a second time and some form of compromise is needed?tailwindhome said:.
Speculation that Varadkar fancies the job.
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Of course it won't. I'm just explaining why there is a different perception.surrey_commuter said:
That will not change the outcome of the negotiations. He is the mouthpiece for a position agreed by committeeTheBigBean said:
He's a politican and wants to be seen that way.surrey_commuter said:
It does intrigue me that Barnier is seen as some all powerful being with unilateral powers whereas Frost is seen as a paid negotiator doing the bidding of his masters.TheBigBean said:
Presumably when Barnier gets moved aside a second time and some form of compromise is needed?tailwindhome said:.
Speculation that Varadkar fancies the job.0 -
Just replace the words 'diplomatic immunity' with 'democratic accountability' in the clip below and imagine a different accent - and there you have it...TheBigBean said:
He's probably also chuckling away about his democractic accountability.tailwindhome said:
In a further twist it seems that Hogan travelled to Kildare which is under lockdown before travelling onward to the golf dinner.tailwindhome said:Brexit and Coronavirus intersect again following the controversial revelation that 80 members of the Oireachtas (Irish Parliament) Golf Society met for a dinner in breach of Coronavirus regulations.
Among those in attendance, Phil Hogan, EU trade commissioner.
The Taoiseach and Tanaiste have suggested he consider his position. Hogan has reminded the Taoiseach and Tanaiste that he doesn't work for them.
Speculation that Varadkar fancies the job.
He only stopped in Kildare when he was stopped by the Garda for driving will using his mobile.
On the plus side it seems he won a George Foreman grill in the dinner raffle..
https://youtu.be/kwC_IaY3BmY "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Different perception or ignorance? And is the ignorance wilful?TheBigBean said:
Of course it won't. I'm just explaining why there is a different perception.surrey_commuter said:
That will not change the outcome of the negotiations. He is the mouthpiece for a position agreed by committeeTheBigBean said:
He's a politican and wants to be seen that way.surrey_commuter said:
It does intrigue me that Barnier is seen as some all powerful being with unilateral powers whereas Frost is seen as a paid negotiator doing the bidding of his masters.TheBigBean said:
Presumably when Barnier gets moved aside a second time and some form of compromise is needed?tailwindhome said:.
Speculation that Varadkar fancies the job.0 -
Death by a thousand cuts.
Hogan resigns“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
