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BREXIT 2020 - Bye Bye Brussels. It's Been a Blast.🇬🇧

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  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 49,400 Lives Here
    spatt77 said:

    I haven't read the article, but I think the campaign was doomed, and therefore a fall out was always going to happen. "Let's make it the best of three" was only going to win over the hardcore.
    It’s a really good read.

    Good journalism should be paid for and all that.
    I agree, its a good read, unfortunately I think the people who were running this were seen as the upper middle class elite, as they may have gained a bit of traction in London but outside of that it never really came off!
    Help me out here why is being ‘elite’ bad?
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 10,356

    spatt77 said:

    I haven't read the article, but I think the campaign was doomed, and therefore a fall out was always going to happen. "Let's make it the best of three" was only going to win over the hardcore.
    It’s a really good read.

    Good journalism should be paid for and all that.
    I agree, its a good read, unfortunately I think the people who were running this were seen as the upper middle class elite, as they may have gained a bit of traction in London but outside of that it never really came off!
    Help me out here why is being ‘elite’ bad?
    Don't think good/bad. Think not representative. Bit like you banging on about the make up of boards and recruitment policies.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 10,945

    spatt77 said:

    I haven't read the article, but I think the campaign was doomed, and therefore a fall out was always going to happen. "Let's make it the best of three" was only going to win over the hardcore.
    It’s a really good read.

    Good journalism should be paid for and all that.
    I agree, its a good read, unfortunately I think the people who were running this were seen as the upper middle class elite, as they may have gained a bit of traction in London but outside of that it never really came off!
    Help me out here why is being ‘elite’ bad?
    Don't think good/bad. Think not representative. Bit like you banging on about the make up of boards and recruitment policies.
    I do think it absolutely bizarre that anybody would not see Boris/Farage as the epitome of the elite.

    I would view it as bad that Will Straw was selected as the best person to head up Remain.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 10,356
    Update on Japan trade agreement

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53697547
  • darkhairedlorddarkhairedlord Posts: 5,371

    Update on Japan trade agreement

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53697547

    This time next year Rodney, we'll all be driving Kei cars.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 41,478

    Update on Japan trade agreement

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53697547

    Very disappointing for some people. But good news.
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  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 10,945
    seems Liz Truss has walked out over the issue of quotas on Stilton which is worth £100k a year in exports to Japan.

    I genuinely don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

    On the plus side it eases the worry that we would get bummed by all and sundry in our desperation to secure deals.

    On the downside it seems to originate from a childish need to be able to point to an improvement on the EU deal.

    On the double downside it would suggest that she does not realise the favoured nation status it grants the EU.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 49,400 Lives Here

    seems Liz Truss has walked out over the issue of quotas on Stilton which is worth £100k a year in exports to Japan.

    I genuinely don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

    On the plus side it eases the worry that we would get bummed by all and sundry in our desperation to secure deals.

    On the downside it seems to originate from a childish need to be able to point to an improvement on the EU deal.

    On the double downside it would suggest that she does not realise the favoured nation status it grants the EU.



  • spatt77spatt77 Posts: 266

    seems Liz Truss has walked out over the issue of quotas on Stilton which is worth £100k a year in exports to Japan.

    I genuinely don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

    On the plus side it eases the worry that we would get bummed by all and sundry in our desperation to secure deals.

    On the downside it seems to originate from a childish need to be able to point to an improvement on the EU deal.

    On the double downside it would suggest that she does not realise the favoured nation status it grants the EU.



    I've worked in Japan and European cheese is held in very high esteem! Cheese is relatively new to Japan but a potentially massive market!
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 10,945
    spatt77 said:

    seems Liz Truss has walked out over the issue of quotas on Stilton which is worth £100k a year in exports to Japan.

    I genuinely don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

    On the plus side it eases the worry that we would get bummed by all and sundry in our desperation to secure deals.

    On the downside it seems to originate from a childish need to be able to point to an improvement on the EU deal.

    On the double downside it would suggest that she does not realise the favoured nation status it grants the EU.



    I've worked in Japan and European cheese is held in very high esteem! Cheese is relatively new to Japan but a potentially massive market!
    What do you count as massive? The Times reckons that we are arguing over £100k of Stilton
  • spatt77spatt77 Posts: 266

    spatt77 said:

    seems Liz Truss has walked out over the issue of quotas on Stilton which is worth £100k a year in exports to Japan.

    I genuinely don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

    On the plus side it eases the worry that we would get bummed by all and sundry in our desperation to secure deals.

    On the downside it seems to originate from a childish need to be able to point to an improvement on the EU deal.

    On the double downside it would suggest that she does not realise the favoured nation status it grants the EU.



    I've worked in Japan and European cheese is held in very high esteem! Cheese is relatively new to Japan but a potentially massive market!
    What do you count as massive? The Times reckons that we are arguing over £100k of Stilton
    Well in the big scheme of things, say compared to FS quite small but to the British Stilton industry its a much bigger deal i would imagine!!
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 10,945
    spatt77 said:

    spatt77 said:

    seems Liz Truss has walked out over the issue of quotas on Stilton which is worth £100k a year in exports to Japan.

    I genuinely don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

    On the plus side it eases the worry that we would get bummed by all and sundry in our desperation to secure deals.

    On the downside it seems to originate from a childish need to be able to point to an improvement on the EU deal.

    On the double downside it would suggest that she does not realise the favoured nation status it grants the EU.



    I've worked in Japan and European cheese is held in very high esteem! Cheese is relatively new to Japan but a potentially massive market!
    What do you count as massive? The Times reckons that we are arguing over £100k of Stilton
    Well in the big scheme of things, say compared to FS quite small but to the British Stilton industry its a much bigger deal i would imagine!!
    Annual exports to Japan are worth £15bn and yet you and Liz Truss want to walk away to help the British Stilton industry sell £100k.

    Why not give them £1m a year?
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 10,945
    Strangely the Times saying that a majority of people now doubt BoJo’s ability to deliver game changing trade deals.

    This and what I read on here makes me realise that the majority of the UK people do not understand international trade deals
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 49,400 Lives Here
    spatt77 said:

    seems Liz Truss has walked out over the issue of quotas on Stilton which is worth £100k a year in exports to Japan.

    I genuinely don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

    On the plus side it eases the worry that we would get bummed by all and sundry in our desperation to secure deals.

    On the downside it seems to originate from a childish need to be able to point to an improvement on the EU deal.

    On the double downside it would suggest that she does not realise the favoured nation status it grants the EU.



    I've worked in Japan and European cheese is held in very high esteem! Cheese is relatively new to Japan but a potentially massive market!
    What about that infographic makes you think Japan is a potentially massive market for cheese?

    I think the term you're actually looking for is 'gaseous and sh!tty' market.
  • spatt77spatt77 Posts: 266

    spatt77 said:

    spatt77 said:

    seems Liz Truss has walked out over the issue of quotas on Stilton which is worth £100k a year in exports to Japan.

    I genuinely don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

    On the plus side it eases the worry that we would get bummed by all and sundry in our desperation to secure deals.

    On the downside it seems to originate from a childish need to be able to point to an improvement on the EU deal.

    On the double downside it would suggest that she does not realise the favoured nation status it grants the EU.



    I've worked in Japan and European cheese is held in very high esteem! Cheese is relatively new to Japan but a potentially massive market!
    What do you count as massive? The Times reckons that we are arguing over £100k of Stilton
    Well in the big scheme of things, say compared to FS quite small but to the British Stilton industry its a much bigger deal i would imagine!!
    Annual exports to Japan are worth £15bn and yet you and Liz Truss want to walk away to help the British Stilton industry sell £100k.

    Why not give them £1m a year?
    where did i want to say i want to walk away?
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 10,945
    Deputy PM of NZ is complaining that we are not match fit for negotiations as they have gone nowhere in four years.

    This could be because total trade is worth less than £2bn and that any uplift will be at most £100m.

    Or he did not notice Dr Fox rolled over his existing deal at one minute past midnight on Jan 31st.
  • We all knew the EU wanted further integration, yet many turned a blind eye to this and voted Remain.

    Those who voted Leave have saved the UK.


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  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 41,478

    We all knew the EU wanted further integration, yet many turned a blind eye to this and voted Remain.

    Those who voted Leave have saved the UK.


    The common debt point was definitely crossing a line and is a victory for the likes of Macron who are open about wanting a Federal Europe. The COVID crisis was something that nobody could have foreseen, but it seems that the federalists have seized on their chance and good luck to the EU if that's what they really want.

    My view at the time of the referendum was that we could stop this sort of thing by wielding the veto and rallying support amongst like minded member States. However if it had been a choice between leave and a Federal Europe (rather than simply remain), then I think the leave majority would have been much larger.
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  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 49,400 Lives Here
    edited 19 August
    Stevo_666 said:

    We all knew the EU wanted further integration, yet many turned a blind eye to this and voted Remain.

    Those who voted Leave have saved the UK.


    The common debt point was definitely crossing a line and is a victory for the likes of Macron who are open about wanting a Federal Europe. The COVID crisis was something that nobody could have foreseen, but it seems that the federalists have seized on their chance and good luck to the EU if that's what they really want.

    My view at the time of the referendum was that we could stop this sort of thing by wielding the veto and rallying support amongst like minded member States. However if it had been a choice between leave and a Federal Europe (rather than simply remain), then I think the leave majority would have been much larger.
    OMG we literally had this discussion about 2 weeks ago.

    THEY CAN ONLY DO THIS BECAUSE THE UK HAS ALREADY LEFT.

    You're like the jealous husband who now insists because his ex-wife is dating other men that she always wanted to cheat.
  • Stevo_666 said:

    We all knew the EU wanted further integration, yet many turned a blind eye to this and voted Remain.

    Those who voted Leave have saved the UK.


    The common debt point was definitely crossing a line and is a victory for the likes of Macron who are open about wanting a Federal Europe. The COVID crisis was something that nobody could have foreseen, but it seems that the federalists have seized on their chance and good luck to the EU if that's what they really want.

    My view at the time of the referendum was that we could stop this sort of thing by wielding the veto and rallying support amongst like minded member States. However if it had been a choice between leave and a Federal Europe (rather than simply remain), then I think the leave majority would have been much larger.
    The veto was only ever going to work if the PM at the time was willing to use it.

    As pretty much all past PM's(eg Blair, Major, Cameron) incorrectly believed the UK was pro EU, a Federal Europe would have been pushed upon us, likely via the backdoor.

    The UK voting to Leave is the best thing this country has done in the last decade. We just need another decade or two of hindsight for the losers to see it
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  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 10,855
    Well, we've really made sure there isn't greater EU integration by leaving. No, hang on.
    I'm winking at it.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 41,478

    Stevo_666 said:

    We all knew the EU wanted further integration, yet many turned a blind eye to this and voted Remain.

    Those who voted Leave have saved the UK.


    The common debt point was definitely crossing a line and is a victory for the likes of Macron who are open about wanting a Federal Europe. The COVID crisis was something that nobody could have foreseen, but it seems that the federalists have seized on their chance and good luck to the EU if that's what they really want.

    My view at the time of the referendum was that we could stop this sort of thing by wielding the veto and rallying support amongst like minded member States. However if it had been a choice between leave and a Federal Europe (rather than simply remain), then I think the leave majority would have been much larger.
    The veto was only ever going to work if the PM at the time was willing to use it.

    As pretty much all past PM's(eg Blair, Major, Cameron) incorrectly believed the UK was pro EU, a Federal Europe would have been pushed upon us, likely via the backdoor.

    The UK voting to Leave is the best thing this country has done in the last decade. We just need another decade or two of hindsight for the losers to see it
    The views of previous administrations differed - Blair was blatant and hwasis plan to take us into the single currency only thwarted by Gordon Brown's five tests - thankfully and credit to Brown for that. Came do saw which way the wind was blowing and was at pains to point out that further transfers of power to Brussels would e subject to a referendum. I suppose the danger was another spell of government with a more Blair-like attitude. However that's not really relevant any more.

    We will almost definitely get the benefit of hindsight given time, as the chances of rejoining the EU in the foreseeable future are vanishingly small.
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  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 41,478

    Stevo_666 said:

    We all knew the EU wanted further integration, yet many turned a blind eye to this and voted Remain.

    Those who voted Leave have saved the UK.


    The common debt point was definitely crossing a line and is a victory for the likes of Macron who are open about wanting a Federal Europe. The COVID crisis was something that nobody could have foreseen, but it seems that the federalists have seized on their chance and good luck to the EU if that's what they really want.

    My view at the time of the referendum was that we could stop this sort of thing by wielding the veto and rallying support amongst like minded member States. However if it had been a choice between leave and a Federal Europe (rather than simply remain), then I think the leave majority would have been much larger.
    OMG we literally had this discussion about 2 weeks ago.

    THEY CAN ONLY DO THIS BECAUSE THE UK HAS ALREADY LEFT.

    You're like the jealous husband who now insists because his ex-wife is dating other men that she always wanted to cheat.
    Jealous of what? I definitely don't want to be part of a Federal Europe.

    I don't disagree that the EU has more scope to integrate without the UK as we were often a 'blocker'. That's up to the EU and the remaining member states now.
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  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 10,855
    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    We all knew the EU wanted further integration, yet many turned a blind eye to this and voted Remain.

    Those who voted Leave have saved the UK.


    The common debt point was definitely crossing a line and is a victory for the likes of Macron who are open about wanting a Federal Europe. The COVID crisis was something that nobody could have foreseen, but it seems that the federalists have seized on their chance and good luck to the EU if that's what they really want.

    My view at the time of the referendum was that we could stop this sort of thing by wielding the veto and rallying support amongst like minded member States. However if it had been a choice between leave and a Federal Europe (rather than simply remain), then I think the leave majority would have been much larger.
    OMG we literally had this discussion about 2 weeks ago.

    THEY CAN ONLY DO THIS BECAUSE THE UK HAS ALREADY LEFT.

    You're like the jealous husband who now insists because his ex-wife is dating other men that she always wanted to cheat.
    Jealous of what? I definitely don't want to be part of a Federal Europe.

    I don't disagree that the EU has more scope to integrate without the UK as we were often a 'blocker'. That's up to the EU and the remaining member states now.
    Do you think closer union in the EU is overall good or bad for the UK?
    I'm winking at it.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 49,400 Lives Here
    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    We all knew the EU wanted further integration, yet many turned a blind eye to this and voted Remain.

    Those who voted Leave have saved the UK.


    The common debt point was definitely crossing a line and is a victory for the likes of Macron who are open about wanting a Federal Europe. The COVID crisis was something that nobody could have foreseen, but it seems that the federalists have seized on their chance and good luck to the EU if that's what they really want.

    My view at the time of the referendum was that we could stop this sort of thing by wielding the veto and rallying support amongst like minded member States. However if it had been a choice between leave and a Federal Europe (rather than simply remain), then I think the leave majority would have been much larger.
    OMG we literally had this discussion about 2 weeks ago.

    THEY CAN ONLY DO THIS BECAUSE THE UK HAS ALREADY LEFT.

    You're like the jealous husband who now insists because his ex-wife is dating other men that she always wanted to cheat.
    Jealous of what? I definitely don't want to be part of a Federal Europe.

    I don't disagree that the EU has more scope to integrate without the UK as we were often a 'blocker'. That's up to the EU and the remaining member states now.
    I must give you too much credit if you can't work that analogy out.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 41,478
    edited 19 August

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    We all knew the EU wanted further integration, yet many turned a blind eye to this and voted Remain.

    Those who voted Leave have saved the UK.


    The common debt point was definitely crossing a line and is a victory for the likes of Macron who are open about wanting a Federal Europe. The COVID crisis was something that nobody could have foreseen, but it seems that the federalists have seized on their chance and good luck to the EU if that's what they really want.

    My view at the time of the referendum was that we could stop this sort of thing by wielding the veto and rallying support amongst like minded member States. However if it had been a choice between leave and a Federal Europe (rather than simply remain), then I think the leave majority would have been much larger.
    OMG we literally had this discussion about 2 weeks ago.

    THEY CAN ONLY DO THIS BECAUSE THE UK HAS ALREADY LEFT.

    You're like the jealous husband who now insists because his ex-wife is dating other men that she always wanted to cheat.
    Jealous of what? I definitely don't want to be part of a Federal Europe.

    I don't disagree that the EU has more scope to integrate without the UK as we were often a 'blocker'. That's up to the EU and the remaining member states now.
    I must give you too much credit if you can't work that analogy out.
    You didn't answer my question - what am I supposed to be jealous of?

    You're not a very good mind reader.

    Edit: and your analogy is poor.
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  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 41,478

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    We all knew the EU wanted further integration, yet many turned a blind eye to this and voted Remain.

    Those who voted Leave have saved the UK.


    The common debt point was definitely crossing a line and is a victory for the likes of Macron who are open about wanting a Federal Europe. The COVID crisis was something that nobody could have foreseen, but it seems that the federalists have seized on their chance and good luck to the EU if that's what they really want.

    My view at the time of the referendum was that we could stop this sort of thing by wielding the veto and rallying support amongst like minded member States. However if it had been a choice between leave and a Federal Europe (rather than simply remain), then I think the leave majority would have been much larger.
    OMG we literally had this discussion about 2 weeks ago.

    THEY CAN ONLY DO THIS BECAUSE THE UK HAS ALREADY LEFT.

    You're like the jealous husband who now insists because his ex-wife is dating other men that she always wanted to cheat.
    Jealous of what? I definitely don't want to be part of a Federal Europe.

    I don't disagree that the EU has more scope to integrate without the UK as we were often a 'blocker'. That's up to the EU and the remaining member states now.
    Do you think closer union in the EU is overall good or bad for the UK?
    Not really thought about it. I'm sure thats a fairly complex point in its own right.
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  • bompingtonbompington Posts: 7,237
    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    We all knew the EU wanted further integration, yet many turned a blind eye to this and voted Remain.

    Those who voted Leave have saved the UK.


    The common debt point was definitely crossing a line and is a victory for the likes of Macron who are open about wanting a Federal Europe. The COVID crisis was something that nobody could have foreseen, but it seems that the federalists have seized on their chance and good luck to the EU if that's what they really want.

    My view at the time of the referendum was that we could stop this sort of thing by wielding the veto and rallying support amongst like minded member States. However if it had been a choice between leave and a Federal Europe (rather than simply remain), then I think the leave majority would have been much larger.
    OMG we literally had this discussion about 2 weeks ago.

    THEY CAN ONLY DO THIS BECAUSE THE UK HAS ALREADY LEFT.

    You're like the jealous husband who now insists because his ex-wife is dating other men that she always wanted to cheat.
    Jealous of what? I definitely don't want to be part of a Federal Europe.

    I don't disagree that the EU has more scope to integrate without the UK as we were often a 'blocker'. That's up to the EU and the remaining member states now.
    I must give you too much credit if you can't work that analogy out.
    You didn't answer my question - what am I supposed to be jealous of?

    You're not a very good mind reader.

    Edit: and your analogy is poor.
    “One of the major difficulties Trillian experienced in her relationship with Zaphod was learning to distinguish between him pretending to be stupid just to get people off their guard, pretending to be stupid because he couldn’t be bothered to think and wanted someone else to do it for him, pretending to be outrageously stupid to hide the fact that he actually didn’t understand what was going on, and really being genuinely stupid.”
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 49,400 Lives Here
    I know dyslexics have a penchant for spotting patterns and analogies in everything, but bomp, back me up, that's a sensible analogy in context, right?
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