BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/why_vote_leave.htmlcoopster_the_1st said:
You are confused because you have been intentionally ignorant, no other reasonkingstongraham said:
I'm confused - wasn't that one of the main selling points of Brexit?coopster_the_1st said:More remoaner nonsense being dispelled today.
36k more EU nationals were working in the UK in Q4 2019 than a year earlier.
Do any of those idiots who said EU nationals would stop coming to the UK want to own up to their stupidity?0 -
Actually, ignore that - it also says that "There is a free trade zone stretching from Iceland to the Russian border. We will still be part of it after we Vote Leave." so is clearly a load of nonsense put out by closet remoaners.kingstongraham said:
http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/why_vote_leave.htmlcoopster_the_1st said:
You are confused because you have been intentionally ignorant, no other reasonkingstongraham said:
I'm confused - wasn't that one of the main selling points of Brexit?coopster_the_1st said:More remoaner nonsense being dispelled today.
36k more EU nationals were working in the UK in Q4 2019 than a year earlier.
Do any of those idiots who said EU nationals would stop coming to the UK want to own up to their stupidity?0 -
Missing the point again...rick_chasey said:
HahahaStevo_666 said:
Big deal. You said yourself the payments would be under a billion by 2025. That's around 10% of the last full years net contribution.rjsterry said:
The comment was on the length of the tail. I'll be nearly in my 90s by the time we're paid up.Stevo_666 said:
Our reducing payments over time.rjsterry said:It's the same fight in any government: a bunch of guys with brilliant ideas and a smaller bunch
Which direction of travel of what are we talking about here. A shame they dodged the opportunity to put proper sanctions on the Polish and Hungarian p***takers.Stevo_666 said:
It's the direction of travel that matters, as they sayrjsterry said:They all pay more OR they spend less. More detail here.
https://www.politico.eu/article/8-takeaways-from-the-new-eu-budget-proposal/
@ Coopster: this may come as a surprise, but we will be contributing to existing commitments until 2064.
https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-8039
It'll be 2025 before annual payments drop below a billion.
RJS was trying to rile Coopster and I was simply pointing it wasn't a large amount in the scheme of things. If you are counting that as some sort of win then you've clearly lowered your expectations to create success "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Last time around Cameron and Merkel led the Frugals, and negotiated the budget down to 0.950% of gross national income (gni) (presumably tax take across member states - but I'm not sure):rjsterry said:So?
They have 67million fewer people to worry about.
Sure, they'll all have to chip in more or make do with less. Probably a bit of both.
I can't see that it's going to change anything fundamentally. There are already voices within the EU arguing for reduced spending.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/08/european-union-budget-night-talks
This time around UK aren't in the mix and Germany seem to be standing on the sidelines according to the article Stevo posted:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/16/stressed-heads-to-start-brussels-budget-talks-post-brexit
Th EU Commssion wants a budget of 1.100% gni, the EU Council are pushing for 1.074%. The end result will likely be inbetween.
Assuming gni is a usable "real terms" figure, then this budget will be 13 to 16% higher in real terms for each member state compared to the one Cameron negotaited for us in 2013.
Feel free to dispute/correct the maths.
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Barnier has changed his mind. Canada deal is no longer available
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51549662
A reminder
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At ~1.1% of public spending it was never that large an amount in the scheme of things.Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point again...rick_chasey said:
HahahaStevo_666 said:
Big deal. You said yourself the payments would be under a billion by 2025. That's around 10% of the last full years net contribution.rjsterry said:
The comment was on the length of the tail. I'll be nearly in my 90s by the time we're paid up.Stevo_666 said:
Our reducing payments over time.rjsterry said:It's the same fight in any government: a bunch of guys with brilliant ideas and a smaller bunch
Which direction of travel of what are we talking about here. A shame they dodged the opportunity to put proper sanctions on the Polish and Hungarian p***takers.Stevo_666 said:
It's the direction of travel that matters, as they sayrjsterry said:They all pay more OR they spend less. More detail here.
https://www.politico.eu/article/8-takeaways-from-the-new-eu-budget-proposal/
@ Coopster: this may come as a surprise, but we will be contributing to existing commitments until 2064.
https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-8039
It'll be 2025 before annual payments drop below a billion.
RJS was trying to rile Coopster and I was simply pointing it wasn't a large amount in the scheme of things. If you are counting that as some sort of win then you've clearly lowered your expectations to create success1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
There is a big gap between what both sides want.TheBigBean said:Barnier has changed his mind. Canada deal is no longer available
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51549662
A reminder0 -
Yes, but Barnier previously said that the UK's red lines meant that the only deal available was a Canadian/Korean style free trade agreement. The UK has now agreed to this, and the deal has been removed.rick_chasey said:
There is a big gap between what both sides want.TheBigBean said:Barnier has changed his mind. Canada deal is no longer available
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51549662
A reminder0 -
The Uk hasn’t agreed to that if you look at the substance. They’re calling it Canada but it ain’t.0
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The problem as I see it is the closer the U.K. gets to a “fully divergent from the EU” position, with the associated friction, the smaller the difference between that and failing to agree to any deal.
I’m not convinced this U.K. govt will necessarily fold and increasingly the EU has a priority of not having a competitive neighbour.
Neither helps them get to a mutually beneficial compromise.0 -
Agreed. General consensus seems to be that statements about wanting to diverge should be taken at face value. "Australia style" non-deal here we come.rick_chasey said:The problem as I see it is the closer the U.K. gets to a “fully divergent from the EU” position, with the associated friction, the smaller the difference between that and failing to agree to any deal.
I’m not convinced this U.K. govt will necessarily fold and increasingly the EU has a priority of not having a competitive neighbour.
Neither helps them get to a mutually beneficial compromise.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Canada was a deal with two countries converging. Our will be two countries diverging which is a different set of problems.
Why does nobody ask him about Rwandan style terms?0 -
Oh OK, so the £10bn a year hole in the EU budget isn't a big deal, but the £1bn a year tail end liabilities of the UK is a big deal?rjsterry said:
At ~1.1% of public spending it was never that large an amount in the scheme of things.Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point again...rick_chasey said:
HahahaStevo_666 said:
Big deal. You said yourself the payments would be under a billion by 2025. That's around 10% of the last full years net contribution.rjsterry said:
The comment was on the length of the tail. I'll be nearly in my 90s by the time we're paid up.Stevo_666 said:
Our reducing payments over time.rjsterry said:It's the same fight in any government: a bunch of guys with brilliant ideas and a smaller bunch
Which direction of travel of what are we talking about here. A shame they dodged the opportunity to put proper sanctions on the Polish and Hungarian p***takers.Stevo_666 said:
It's the direction of travel that matters, as they sayrjsterry said:They all pay more OR they spend less. More detail here.
https://www.politico.eu/article/8-takeaways-from-the-new-eu-budget-proposal/
@ Coopster: this may come as a surprise, but we will be contributing to existing commitments until 2064.
https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-8039
It'll be 2025 before annual payments drop below a billion.
RJS was trying to rile Coopster and I was simply pointing it wasn't a large amount in the scheme of things. If you are counting that as some sort of win then you've clearly lowered your expectations to create success"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
What are the main differences?rick_chasey said:The Uk hasn’t agreed to that if you look at the substance. They’re calling it Canada but it ain’t.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Clearly the EU are worried about us out-competing them. I wonder why?rjsterry said:
Agreed. General consensus seems to be that statements about wanting to diverge should be taken at face value. "Australia style" non-deal here we come.rick_chasey said:The problem as I see it is the closer the U.K. gets to a “fully divergent from the EU” position, with the associated friction, the smaller the difference between that and failing to agree to any deal.
I’m not convinced this U.K. govt will necessarily fold and increasingly the EU has a priority of not having a competitive neighbour.
Neither helps them get to a mutually beneficial compromise."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Hard to see why the EU has U-turned on this unless they previously thought we that would never go for a Canada style deal and now that we are, they are worried about us out-competing them.TheBigBean said:Barnier has changed his mind. Canada deal is no longer available
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51549662
A reminder"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Neither is. Coopster seemed to think it was all over, when it won't be for a quite a while; that's all.Stevo_666 said:
Oh OK, so the £10bn a year hole in the EU budget isn't a big deal, but the £1bn a year tail end liabilities of the UK is a big deal?rjsterry said:
At ~1.1% of public spending it was never that large an amount in the scheme of things.Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point again...rick_chasey said:
HahahaStevo_666 said:
Big deal. You said yourself the payments would be under a billion by 2025. That's around 10% of the last full years net contribution.rjsterry said:
The comment was on the length of the tail. I'll be nearly in my 90s by the time we're paid up.Stevo_666 said:
Our reducing payments over time.rjsterry said:It's the same fight in any government: a bunch of guys with brilliant ideas and a smaller bunch
Which direction of travel of what are we talking about here. A shame they dodged the opportunity to put proper sanctions on the Polish and Hungarian p***takers.Stevo_666 said:
It's the direction of travel that matters, as they sayrjsterry said:They all pay more OR they spend less. More detail here.
https://www.politico.eu/article/8-takeaways-from-the-new-eu-budget-proposal/
@ Coopster: this may come as a surprise, but we will be contributing to existing commitments until 2064.
https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-8039
It'll be 2025 before annual payments drop below a billion.
RJS was trying to rile Coopster and I was simply pointing it wasn't a large amount in the scheme of things. If you are counting that as some sort of win then you've clearly lowered your expectations to create success1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
With the new immigration policy released this evening, they can probably relax a bit. Not sure how central control of the labour force fits with any plans to out-compete the EU. F*** business indeed.Stevo_666 said:
Clearly the EU are worried about us out-competing them. I wonder why?rjsterry said:
Agreed. General consensus seems to be that statements about wanting to diverge should be taken at face value. "Australia style" non-deal here we come.rick_chasey said:The problem as I see it is the closer the U.K. gets to a “fully divergent from the EU” position, with the associated friction, the smaller the difference between that and failing to agree to any deal.
I’m not convinced this U.K. govt will necessarily fold and increasingly the EU has a priority of not having a competitive neighbour.
Neither helps them get to a mutually beneficial compromise.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
No discussion around Cummings latest hire? For a man so keen on super forecasting he seems completely unable to predict the public reaction to hiring someone linked to eugenics.
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I have a horse in this argument but who knew throwing out a painstakingly assembled recruitment process out the window and hiring some guy who’s read the same books as you would go so badly?Jeremy.89 said:No discussion around Cummings latest hire? For a man so keen on super forecasting he seems completely unable to predict the public reaction to hiring someone linked to eugenics.
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Rankin thread I posted above gives you an idea.Stevo_666 said:
What are the main differences?rick_chasey said:The Uk hasn’t agreed to that if you look at the substance. They’re calling it Canada but it ain’t.
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No different in principle to the controls over non-EU workers coming into the EU. It will be more about how it is worked in practice.rjsterry said:
With the new immigration policy released this evening, they can probably relax a bit. Not sure how central control of the labour force fits with any plans to out-compete the EU. F*** business indeed.Stevo_666 said:
Clearly the EU are worried about us out-competing them. I wonder why?rjsterry said:
Agreed. General consensus seems to be that statements about wanting to diverge should be taken at face value. "Australia style" non-deal here we come.rick_chasey said:The problem as I see it is the closer the U.K. gets to a “fully divergent from the EU” position, with the associated friction, the smaller the difference between that and failing to agree to any deal.
I’m not convinced this U.K. govt will necessarily fold and increasingly the EU has a priority of not having a competitive neighbour.
Neither helps them get to a mutually beneficial compromise.
Although clearly there will be other factors that concern the EU."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Not a good one. Can you clarify for us?rick_chasey said:
Rankin thread I posted above gives you an idea.Stevo_666 said:
What are the main differences?rick_chasey said:The Uk hasn’t agreed to that if you look at the substance. They’re calling it Canada but it ain’t.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I think he is looking at it from a UK point of view and querying whether government rather than markets will best allocate resources.Stevo_666 said:
No different in principle to the controls over non-EU workers coming into the EU. It will be more about how it is worked in practice.rjsterry said:
With the new immigration policy released this evening, they can probably relax a bit. Not sure how central control of the labour force fits with any plans to out-compete the EU. F*** business indeed.Stevo_666 said:
Clearly the EU are worried about us out-competing them. I wonder why?rjsterry said:
Agreed. General consensus seems to be that statements about wanting to diverge should be taken at face value. "Australia style" non-deal here we come.rick_chasey said:The problem as I see it is the closer the U.K. gets to a “fully divergent from the EU” position, with the associated friction, the smaller the difference between that and failing to agree to any deal.
I’m not convinced this U.K. govt will necessarily fold and increasingly the EU has a priority of not having a competitive neighbour.
Neither helps them get to a mutually beneficial compromise.
Although clearly there will be other factors that concern the EU.
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We've already well established Stevo is not in the business of encouraging competition, either in business, politics, or anywhere else.surrey_commuter said:
I think he is looking at it from a UK point of view and querying whether government rather than markets will best allocate resources.Stevo_666 said:
No different in principle to the controls over non-EU workers coming into the EU. It will be more about how it is worked in practice.rjsterry said:
With the new immigration policy released this evening, they can probably relax a bit. Not sure how central control of the labour force fits with any plans to out-compete the EU. F*** business indeed.Stevo_666 said:
Clearly the EU are worried about us out-competing them. I wonder why?rjsterry said:
Agreed. General consensus seems to be that statements about wanting to diverge should be taken at face value. "Australia style" non-deal here we come.rick_chasey said:The problem as I see it is the closer the U.K. gets to a “fully divergent from the EU” position, with the associated friction, the smaller the difference between that and failing to agree to any deal.
I’m not convinced this U.K. govt will necessarily fold and increasingly the EU has a priority of not having a competitive neighbour.
Neither helps them get to a mutually beneficial compromise.
Although clearly there will be other factors that concern the EU.
He's made plenty of 'lump of labour' arguments to argue why it make sense to restrict the labour force, so this position should come as no surprise.
Why bother upping your game when you can vote in governments that protect your weak game?0 -
Who indeed? The theory that Johnson would revert to being a conventional One Nation Conservative after the election is looking pretty shaky.rick_chasey said:
I have a horse in this argument but who knew throwing out a painstakingly assembled recruitment process out the window and hiring some guy who’s read the same books as you would go so badly?Jeremy.89 said:No discussion around Cummings latest hire? For a man so keen on super forecasting he seems completely unable to predict the public reaction to hiring someone linked to eugenics.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
One thing I have found in my fairly limited career is that people who want to break up long recruitment processes and push for 'quick decisions' usually end up hiring their mates.
Doubly so if their need for quick decision making is 'transformation' or even 'revolution' as having someone they 'trust' is of outside importance.
How can you 'trust' someone who's come externally who you've never worked with or known before?0 -
Worked with them as a client before and seen the quality of work they have produced. Obviously still running a risk that they are a pain as a colleague, but probably more informative than most interview processes.rick_chasey said:One thing I have found in my fairly limited career is that people who want to break up long recruitment processes and push for 'quick decisions' usually end up hiring their mates.
Doubly so if their need for quick decision making is 'transformation' or even 'revolution' as having someone they 'trust' is of outside importance.
How can you 'trust' someone who's come externally who you've never worked with or known before?0 -
And to enact revolution, you need centralised control, both within the structure of government itself - one single team of SPADs; expulsion of any dissenting voices - and in external policy - massive infrastructure projects and the new restrictions on the labour market.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0
