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BREXIT 2020 - Bye Bye Brussels. It's Been a Blast.🇬🇧

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  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 17,828
    edited November 2019
    You'll like this one, Pross.

    From the Conservative campaign.
    In their overnight press notice about their plans to revive neglected communities, the Conservatives said they would reverse many of the Beeching rail cuts of the 1960s, reconnecting towns that have suffered since their railways were removed”. The party said it would fund this through a £500m “Beeching reversal fund"


    Is this a wind up? Are they trying to out-do the nationalising Openreach idea?

    Beeching axed about 8000 kilometres of track. Track costs about £4.5million/km. And that's before you provide rolling stock.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • Labour's key policy announcement today can't be done unless we leave the EU. Great stuff guys.
  • dg74dg74 Posts: 613
    pross said:

    I always find the argument that the upsurge in food banks is a sign of increased poverty a bit of a red herring.

    Firstly, they didn't really exist until fairly recently or, if they did, there weren't many and very few people knew about them. Now everyone knows about them so more people are aware to access them.

    Secondly, up until recently people were generally too proud to accept what they saw as charity even from family and friends. When I was in school and my dad had to go on a 3 day week my parents avoided me having free school meals and clothing vouchers until they had to accept them. Now people will often take anything available (not sure if that's good or bad).

    Food banks have ALWAYS existed - right from the wars through to today. Whilst that doesn't make it OK there certainly is an upsurge in food banks and the use of these because of the low wages/zero hours contracts/benefit cuts (and I'm not against cuts to those that simply will not work due to pure laziness) that seems to be the norm these days. Sadly this has increased since 2010.

    When people who work full time and have to use food banks (and don't get me wrong, there is some people who will abuse the banks through fraud), you have to admit something is sadly wrong.

    Factor in rising rents in the private sector and people are having to choose between paying rent, heating or eating then it leads to the conclusion that the UK is a bit messed up right now. 6th richest nation in the world & we can't look after people properly?
  • dg74dg74 Posts: 613
    Stevo_666 said:

    Ten years of tories, the country in a complete state of disarray with no direction. A failing NHS, massive hidden unemployment figures (or do we class no contract workers as ‘employed’?), wage stagnation, food banks at incredibly high levels, increasing child poverty every day, homelessness.....yet it’s all Labour fault!?

    People still believe anything that comes from CCHQ and will vote for Bungling Boris.

    Maybe most people realise that that alternative is worse.

    Out of interest I saw an article then other day saying that Germany has as many food banks as we do.

    PS: you'll fit into Cake Stop just fine with views like that.
    How do we know the alternative is worse? Oh yes - because the media tells us it will be and people believe it. Crazy.

    German food banks is not our problem.

    Please don't make assumptions about me or my views - as you're more than likely wrong & will look daft :)
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 49,488 Lives Here
    pross said:

    I always find the argument that the upsurge in food banks is a sign of increased poverty a bit of a red herring.

    Firstly, they didn't really exist until fairly recently or, if they did, there weren't many and very few people knew about them. Now everyone knows about them so more people are aware to access them.

    Secondly, up until recently people were generally too proud to accept what they saw as charity even from family and friends. When I was in school and my dad had to go on a 3 day week my parents avoided me having free school meals and clothing vouchers until they had to accept them. Now people will often take anything available (not sure if that's good or bad).

    I call bs on this.
  • ProssPross Posts: 23,378

    pross said:

    I always find the argument that the upsurge in food banks is a sign of increased poverty a bit of a red herring.

    Firstly, they didn't really exist until fairly recently or, if they did, there weren't many and very few people knew about them. Now everyone knows about them so more people are aware to access them.

    Secondly, up until recently people were generally too proud to accept what they saw as charity even from family and friends. When I was in school and my dad had to go on a 3 day week my parents avoided me having free school meals and clothing vouchers until they had to accept them. Now people will often take anything available (not sure if that's good or bad).

    I call bs on this.
    Which part? As I said, they may have existed but I don't think many people knew about them much before they got publicised in the financial crash. Like everything in life I would suggest there's an element of supply and demand.
  • webboowebboo Posts: 2,620
    Certain homeless charities have always provided food parcels to the needy. However often in order to obtain one you needed a supporting letter from a social worker or health professional.
  • ProssPross Posts: 23,378
    rjsterry said:

    You'll like this one, Pross.

    From the Conservative campaign.

    In their overnight press notice about their plans to revive neglected communities, the Conservatives said they would reverse many of the Beeching rail cuts of the 1960s, reconnecting towns that have suffered since their railways were removed”. The party said it would fund this through a £500m “Beeching reversal fund"


    Is this a wind up? Are they trying to out-do the nationalising Openreach idea?

    Beeching axed about 8000 kilometres of track. Track costs about £4.5million/km. And that's before you provide rolling stock.
    Great, are they going to use all the old routes and demolish all the housing and other development built on the original land? We're not short of housing after all.

    I do think the rail network needs a complete overall / replacement rather than a bit of tinkering and one off vanity projects like HS2 that serve little purpose in isolation and it's the sort of thing along with green energy and digital infrastructure that are worth investing in through increased borrowing though.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 12,269
    pross said:

    Secondly, up until recently people were generally too proud to accept what they saw as charity even from family and friends. When I was in school and my dad had to go on a 3 day week my parents avoided me having free school meals and clothing vouchers until they had to accept them. Now people will often take anything available (not sure if that's good or bad).

    I'll second that. When I was at school we were eligible for free school meals. There was not a cat's chance in hell that my Dad was going to be claiming that.
    Different times.

    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • dg74dg74 Posts: 613
    pblakeney said:

    pross said:

    Secondly, up until recently people were generally too proud to accept what they saw as charity even from family and friends. When I was in school and my dad had to go on a 3 day week my parents avoided me having free school meals and clothing vouchers until they had to accept them. Now people will often take anything available (not sure if that's good or bad).

    I'll second that. When I was at school we were eligible for free school meals. There was not a cat's chance in hell that my Dad was going to be claiming that.
    Different times.

    We did. After the Conservatives decimated the north east we had the choice of receiving free school meals or going hungry. No shame, was a bleak time & I remember my parents having an evening meal only so me & my brother could be fed & clothed.

    Took a long time to regain what we lost but we did it.
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,758
    rjsterry said:

    You'll like this one, Pross.

    From the Conservative campaign.

    In their overnight press notice about their plans to revive neglected communities, the Conservatives said they would reverse many of the Beeching rail cuts of the 1960s, reconnecting towns that have suffered since their railways were removed”. The party said it would fund this through a £500m “Beeching reversal fund"


    Is this a wind up? Are they trying to out-do the nationalising Openreach idea?

    Beeching axed about 8000 kilometres of track. Track costs about £4.5million/km. And that's before you provide rolling stock.
    £500m won't go very far on rail infrastructure. Most will get swallowed up in design and consulting fees. Plus the Tories or Labour for that matter forget that many of the old tracks are now built on, public rights of way or completely inaccessible. Complete nonsense of a policy.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • shortfallshortfall Posts: 2,502
    dg74 said:

    pblakeney said:

    pross said:

    Secondly, up until recently people were generally too proud to accept what they saw as charity even from family and friends. When I was in school and my dad had to go on a 3 day week my parents avoided me having free school meals and clothing vouchers until they had to accept them. Now people will often take anything available (not sure if that's good or bad).

    I'll second that. When I was at school we were eligible for free school meals. There was not a cat's chance in hell that my Dad was going to be claiming that.
    Different times.

    We did. After the Conservatives decimated the north east we had the choice of receiving free school meals or going hungry. No shame, was a bleak time & I remember my parents having an evening meal only so me & my brother could be fed & clothed.

    Took a long time to regain what we lost but we did it.
    That's nothing, we had to lick t' road clean!
  • dg74dg74 Posts: 613
    shortfall said:

    dg74 said:

    pblakeney said:

    pross said:

    Secondly, up until recently people were generally too proud to accept what they saw as charity even from family and friends. When I was in school and my dad had to go on a 3 day week my parents avoided me having free school meals and clothing vouchers until they had to accept them. Now people will often take anything available (not sure if that's good or bad).

    I'll second that. When I was at school we were eligible for free school meals. There was not a cat's chance in hell that my Dad was going to be claiming that.
    Different times.

    We did. After the Conservatives decimated the north east we had the choice of receiving free school meals or going hungry. No shame, was a bleak time & I remember my parents having an evening meal only so me & my brother could be fed & clothed.

    Took a long time to regain what we lost but we did it.
    That's nothing, we had to lick t' road clean!
    So what! My mate had to lick windows (& still does)
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,758
    shortfall said:

    dg74 said:

    pblakeney said:

    pross said:

    Secondly, up until recently people were generally too proud to accept what they saw as charity even from family and friends. When I was in school and my dad had to go on a 3 day week my parents avoided me having free school meals and clothing vouchers until they had to accept them. Now people will often take anything available (not sure if that's good or bad).

    I'll second that. When I was at school we were eligible for free school meals. There was not a cat's chance in hell that my Dad was going to be claiming that.
    Different times.

    We did. After the Conservatives decimated the north east we had the choice of receiving free school meals or going hungry. No shame, was a bleak time & I remember my parents having an evening meal only so me & my brother could be fed & clothed.

    Took a long time to regain what we lost but we did it.
    That's nothing, we had to lick t' road clean!
    Road! Road! Absolute luxury. We only had ditches to feed on.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 41,515

    Stevo_666 said:

    Ten years of tories, the country in a complete state of disarray with no direction. A failing NHS, massive hidden unemployment figures (or do we class no contract workers as ‘employed’?), wage stagnation, food banks at incredibly high levels, increasing child poverty every day, homelessness.....yet it’s all Labour fault!?

    People still believe anything that comes from CCHQ and will vote for Bungling Boris.

    Maybe most people realise that that alternative is worse.

    Out of interest I saw an article then other day saying that Germany has as many food banks as we do.

    PS: you'll fit into Cake Stop just fine with views like that.
    How do we know the alternative is worse? I’m no Corbyn fan but what I will do is look at what works in the manifestos for my family, my career & how long term it will effect my lifestyle. What I won’t do is believe everything that is printed about a politician or political party that if you scratch away at what is said is predominately lies & misinformation.

    Do you agree with me that Germany has their own problems and has no effect on uk food banks? I’d think that Germany also has a better run economy for their workers where a lot of nationalization works for them. So why not here?

    Lastly I’d not surmise that you know about someone. Mainly because A) you’re wrong, and B ) it makes you look stupid.

    It’s been enlightening.
    Didnt take long for you to get shirty did it? Very disappointing when people go to the trouble of greeting you and saying you'll fit in :)

    Read my post properly - I said maybe. But it is quite likely that a hard line leftie regime will screw things up if history and experience of other countries in the past is anything to go by. The level of support of the conservatives is well ahead of the other parties and that is maybe the reason why plenty of people think the alternative is worse. Or maybe things aren't as bad as you say in your little doom and gloom post above?
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  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 17,828
    edited November 2019
    Interesting Twitter thread from Lewis Goodall of Sky News.

    Spent two weeks on the road now. Travelled 700 miles. Lots of different places.

    Overwhelming impression? The voters are deeply unhappy with the choice they’re being asked to make. They don’t much like either of the major parties, nor Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn.

    In fact I’d go further- I’d say that right now there is total incredulity that they’re being asked to choose between the two men, about whom many voters have profound doubts.


    https://mobile.twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1195365130286043137

    Dithering ideologue or compulsive liar. What a choice.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • dg74dg74 Posts: 613
    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Ten years of tories, the country in a complete state of disarray with no direction. A failing NHS, massive hidden unemployment figures (or do we class no contract workers as ‘employed’?), wage stagnation, food banks at incredibly high levels, increasing child poverty every day, homelessness.....yet it’s all Labour fault!?

    People still believe anything that comes from CCHQ and will vote for Bungling Boris.

    Maybe most people realise that that alternative is worse.

    Out of interest I saw an article then other day saying that Germany has as many food banks as we do.

    PS: you'll fit into Cake Stop just fine with views like that.
    How do we know the alternative is worse? I’m no Corbyn fan but what I will do is look at what works in the manifestos for my family, my career & how long term it will effect my lifestyle. What I won’t do is believe everything that is printed about a politician or political party that if you scratch away at what is said is predominately lies & misinformation.

    Do you agree with me that Germany has their own problems and has no effect on uk food banks? I’d think that Germany also has a better run economy for their workers where a lot of nationalization works for them. So why not here?

    Lastly I’d not surmise that you know about someone. Mainly because A) you’re wrong, and B ) it makes you look stupid.

    It’s been enlightening.
    Didnt take long for you to get shirty did it? Very disappointing when people go to the trouble of greeting you and saying you'll fit in :)

    Read my post properly - I said maybe. But it is quite likely that a hard line leftie regime will screw things up if history and experience of other countries in the past is anything to go by. The level of support of the conservatives is well ahead of the other parties and that is maybe the reason why plenty of people think the alternative is worse. Or maybe things aren't as bad as you say in your little doom and gloom post above?
    You assume too much. Like I said - enlightening 👍
  • ProssPross Posts: 23,378
    rjsterry said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Lewis Goodall of Sky News.

    Spent two weeks on the road now. Travelled 700 miles. Lots of different places.

    Overwhelming impression? The voters are deeply unhappy with the choice they’re being asked to make. They don’t much like either of the major parties, nor Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn.

    In fact I’d go further- I’d say that right now there is total incredulity that they’re being asked to choose between the two men, about whom many voters have profound doubts.


    https://mobile.twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1195365130286043137

    Dithering ideologue or compulsive liar.
    700 miles in 2 weeks 'on the road'? That's less than I travel by car in most two week periods and I tend to commute by train when not working from home. He needs to get out more!
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 17,828
    Yes, I thought the mileage was not all that, but I think he's been visiting all the Lab/Con marginals.

    Anyway. Some interesting figures for those bragging about the Tory poll lead.

    A month out from #GE2019:

    Con 40%
    Lab 28%

    A month out from #GE2017:
    Con 47%
    Lab 29%

    Doing less well than TM.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • pross said:

    rjsterry said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Lewis Goodall of Sky News.

    Spent two weeks on the road now. Travelled 700 miles. Lots of different places.

    Overwhelming impression? The voters are deeply unhappy with the choice they’re being asked to make. They don’t much like either of the major parties, nor Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn.

    In fact I’d go further- I’d say that right now there is total incredulity that they’re being asked to choose between the two men, about whom many voters have profound doubts.


    https://mobile.twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1195365130286043137

    Dithering ideologue or compulsive liar.
    700 miles in 2 weeks 'on the road'? That's less than I travel by car in most two week periods and I tend to commute by train when not working from home. He needs to get out more!
    That may be but I'm guessing you don't stop at every market town you pass through and spend an hour making speeches and trying to get people to vote for you ;)
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,003
    mr_goo said:

    rjsterry said:

    You'll like this one, Pross.

    From the Conservative campaign.

    In their overnight press notice about their plans to revive neglected communities, the Conservatives said they would reverse many of the Beeching rail cuts of the 1960s, reconnecting towns that have suffered since their railways were removed”. The party said it would fund this through a £500m “Beeching reversal fund"


    Is this a wind up? Are they trying to out-do the nationalising Openreach idea?

    Beeching axed about 8000 kilometres of track. Track costs about £4.5million/km. And that's before you provide rolling stock.
    £500m won't go very far on rail infrastructure. Most will get swallowed up in design and consulting fees. Plus the Tories or Labour for that matter forget that many of the old tracks are now built on, public rights of way or completely inaccessible. Complete nonsense of a policy.
    FFS, I find myself in agreement with mr goo...

  • rjsterry said:

    Yes, I thought the mileage was not all that, but I think he's been visiting all the Lab/Con marginals.

    Anyway. Some interesting figures for those bragging about the Tory poll lead.

    A month out from #GE2019:

    Con 40%
    Lab 28%

    A month out from #GE2017:
    Con 47%
    Lab 29%

    Doing less well than TM.

    Yes, but noone's excited about Corbyn this time.

    It's a sh!t sandwich and you get to choose white or brown bread.
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,758

    mr_goo said:

    rjsterry said:

    You'll like this one, Pross.

    From the Conservative campaign.

    In their overnight press notice about their plans to revive neglected communities, the Conservatives said they would reverse many of the Beeching rail cuts of the 1960s, reconnecting towns that have suffered since their railways were removed”. The party said it would fund this through a £500m “Beeching reversal fund"


    Is this a wind up? Are they trying to out-do the nationalising Openreach idea?

    Beeching axed about 8000 kilometres of track. Track costs about £4.5million/km. And that's before you provide rolling stock.
    £500m won't go very far on rail infrastructure. Most will get swallowed up in design and consulting fees. Plus the Tories or Labour for that matter forget that many of the old tracks are now built on, public rights of way or completely inaccessible. Complete nonsense of a policy.
    FFS, I find myself in agreement with mr goo...

    Keep taking the pills.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 17,828

    rjsterry said:

    Yes, I thought the mileage was not all that, but I think he's been visiting all the Lab/Con marginals.

    Anyway. Some interesting figures for those bragging about the Tory poll lead.

    A month out from #GE2019:

    Con 40%
    Lab 28%

    A month out from #GE2017:
    Con 47%
    Lab 29%

    Doing less well than TM.

    Yes, but noone's excited about Corbyn this time.

    It's a sh!t sandwich and you get to choose white or brown bread.
    Someone was pointing out that a lot of his unpopularity is within Labour supporters who will still hold their noses and stick on red, so it's not as bad as the favourability figures suggest.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • dg74dg74 Posts: 613
    I’m favouring a hung parliament with the deal going back to the people.

    Milne & Cummings will be apoplectic.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 49,488 Lives Here
    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50419130

    More problems caused by Brexit, this time the WTO member’s edition.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 49,488 Lives Here
    Also, shout out to the widow of a KGB spy, who was murdered in London on the orders of President Putiin, through poisoning with polonium-210, who is taking Boris Johnson to court over hiding a report into Russian interference mid-election
  • mr_goo said:

    rjsterry said:

    You'll like this one, Pross.

    From the Conservative campaign.

    In their overnight press notice about their plans to revive neglected communities, the Conservatives said they would reverse many of the Beeching rail cuts of the 1960s, reconnecting towns that have suffered since their railways were removed”. The party said it would fund this through a £500m “Beeching reversal fund"


    Is this a wind up? Are they trying to out-do the nationalising Openreach idea?

    Beeching axed about 8000 kilometres of track. Track costs about £4.5million/km. And that's before you provide rolling stock.
    £500m won't go very far on rail infrastructure. Most will get swallowed up in design and consulting fees. Plus the Tories or Labour for that matter forget that many of the old tracks are now built on, public rights of way or completely inaccessible. Complete nonsense of a policy.
    FFS, I find myself in agreement with mr goo...

    They are not converting the whole lot, they are suggesting to do the easy bits. It is actually a sensible idea.
  • Can I check that we are all in favour of the state providing fast broadband to every household? Seems like a classic example of using Govt to borrow at negligible rates to get a boost in productivity.
    Whilst no Corbyn supporter I am starting to think that the media just ridicule everything he says. Assuming that this forum is pretty centrist then he seems on message.
  • https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50419130

    More problems caused by Brexit, this time the WTO member’s edition.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50419130

    More problems caused by Brexit, this time the WTO member’s edition.

    We discussed this years ago, with the quotas being an example of a very complicated but tiny issue that may have huge ramifications
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