BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

shirley_basso

Probably because its less hassle to start from a pre- negotiated position than from scratch.

mfin

Have to declare the no-deal documents

shirley_basso

That'll make for quick reading

mfin

Shirley Basso wrote:

That'll make for quick reading

It's quite entertaining watching things unfold tonight. Boris going to take to the stage shortly, I bet he's going to find it hard to appear upbeat, it's quite late too, bless him.

tailwindhome

Ballysmate wrote:

Why should it?

Why would they not?

This is an internal UK crisis now. Why would they turn it into an EU crisis?

mfin

I don't know why they are bothering asking for an early GE again. What part of going through this again helps them?

(I suppose it serves to have a subject to keep diverting to instead of answering anything, that's about it).

pblakeney

Tick tock, tick tock...Isn't it wonderful what happens when you return power to Westminster? Now, where's that irony thread?

bompington

mfin wrote:

I don't know why they are bothering asking for an early GE again. What part of going through this again helps them?

(I suppose it serves to have a subject to keep diverting to instead of answering anything, that's about it).

It's all about setting up "the optics" for the election when it comes.

rick_chasey

So errr, Netherlands doing well out of Brexit

https://www.cityam.com/going-dutch-uk-i ... eferendum/

UK investments in the Netherlands have jumped more than four-fold to €80bn (£72bn) since the Brexit referendum in 2016, the Dutch statistics office said today.

In the same period, Dutch investments in the UK fell from €50bn to negative €11bn as Brexit uncertainty led to capital outflows.

darkhairedlord

Rick Chasey wrote:

So errr, Netherlands doing well out of Brexit

https://www.cityam.com/going-dutch-uk-i ... eferendum/

UK investments in the Netherlands have jumped more than four-fold to €80bn (£72bn) since the Brexit referendum in 2016, the Dutch statistics office said today.

In the same period, Dutch investments in the UK fell from €50bn to negative €11bn as Brexit uncertainty led to capital outflows.

That'll get the DUP burning their orange sashes

rick_chasey

NICK TIMOTHY GETS A TITLE.



F*CK OFF.

TheBigBean

Rick Chasey wrote:

So errr, Netherlands doing well out of Brexit

https://www.cityam.com/going-dutch-uk-i ... eferendum/

UK investments in the Netherlands have jumped more than four-fold to €80bn (£72bn) since the Brexit referendum in 2016, the Dutch statistics office said today.

In the same period, Dutch investments in the UK fell from €50bn to negative €11bn as Brexit uncertainty led to capital outflows.

It seems to be the fashionable place to stick a couple of members of staff. No one seems to want to move to Dublin and no company likes French employment law. Whereas Amsterdam seems to appeal to employees and is still reasonably close.

Lithunania is probably doing well for other reasons.

briantrumpet

darkhairedlord wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So errr, Netherlands doing well out of Brexit

https://www.cityam.com/going-dutch-uk-i ... eferendum/

UK investments in the Netherlands have jumped more than four-fold to €80bn (£72bn) since the Brexit referendum in 2016, the Dutch statistics office said today.

In the same period, Dutch investments in the UK fell from €50bn to negative €11bn as Brexit uncertainty led to capital outflows.

That'll get the DUP burning their orange sashes

OT - there's a lovely connection between carrots & Protestant orange: the Dutch royal family originally came from Orange in France, and Dutch carrot growers changed the colour of carrots to consistent orange to honour the royal family's, er, roots. The rest, as they say, is history.

rick_chasey

briantrumpet wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So errr, Netherlands doing well out of Brexit

https://www.cityam.com/going-dutch-uk-i ... eferendum/

UK investments in the Netherlands have jumped more than four-fold to €80bn (£72bn) since the Brexit referendum in 2016, the Dutch statistics office said today.

In the same period, Dutch investments in the UK fell from €50bn to negative €11bn as Brexit uncertainty led to capital outflows.

That'll get the DUP burning their orange sashes

OT - there's a lovely connection between carrots & Protestant orange: the Dutch royal family originally came from Orange in France, and Dutch carrot growers changed the colour of carrots to consistent orange to honour the royal family's, er, roots. The rest, as they say, is history.

Err, you sure about that France bit? The Nassau family were all born in what's now the Netherlands/Flanders/West Germany. The Nassau family goes all the way back to 12th Century, all around that part of the world.

Edit: Ok, the Nassau family inherited the title associated with the province in the 16th Century (William the silent), and gave it up early in the 18th Century in the Treaty of Utrecht.

rjsterry

Rick Chasey wrote:

NICK TIMOTHY GETS A TITLE.



F*CK OFF.

That is hilarious.

Less funny is convicted criminal Boycott getting a gong.

tailwindhome

People seem to have missed, in the outrage over private messages relating to prorogation, that the 'humble address' requires the govt to release the Yellowhammer No Deal preparation documents.

bobmcstuff

rjsterry wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Awful lot of chat about NI only backstop today.

Something in it or just today's nonsense?

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comm ... 32086.html

A second option is for Mr Johnson to return to the deal that his predecessor foolishly dismissed, and agree that Northern Ireland stays in the customs union and single market even as the rest of the UK leaves them.

Edit: there's also a very critical piece by Ruth Davidson in tonight's Standard. Osborne seems to have gone off Johnson all of a sudden.

I think that if May had kept a large majority and had not had to rely on the DUP this is where we would already be.

rick_chasey

rjsterry wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Tom Newton Dunn
@tnewtondunn
·
8m
Govt defeated in Commons by 311 v 302 on Dominic Grieve motion: emails and social media messages exchanged between special advisers about prorogation must all now be published.

Thought Gove did have a bit of a point about how wide reaching the search parameters were. Ditto the impact on whether civil servants are comfortable giving confidential advice if that advice may later be published - cf. Former US Ambassador.

Plenty of cabinet ministers are rather hypocritical on the issue as they're happy for the state to electronically snoop on its people but not the other way around.

rolf_f

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Do not prorogue Parliament”.
Government responded: A load of party political irrelevant and ignorant garbage as you'd expect.
Cabinet Office

kingstongraham

Ballysmate wrote:

There is an irony that Brexiteers are regarded as having a misguided view of the importance of the UK, whilst Remainers automatically assume that the EU will keep giving us extensions because MPs at Westminster vote for them.
Why should it?

They may well have checked with the commission that they are likely to agree.

Also, without asking, you definitely are not going to get it, even if you don't assume it will be agreed.

rick_chasey

Hague spelling out what Bompington was saying:

The final problem with this whole episode is that it appears to send a signal – that if you are a “moderate” Tory, a socially liberal, fiscally responsible, internationalist Conservative who believes in the necessity of compromise and balance in our national affairs – you have to start to think about joining a new party.

robert88

Rick Chasey wrote:

briantrumpet wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So errr, Netherlands doing well out of Brexit

https://www.cityam.com/going-dutch-uk-i ... eferendum/

UK investments in the Netherlands have jumped more than four-fold to €80bn (£72bn) since the Brexit referendum in 2016, the Dutch statistics office said today.

In the same period, Dutch investments in the UK fell from €50bn to negative €11bn as Brexit uncertainty led to capital outflows.

That'll get the DUP burning their orange sashes

OT - there's a lovely connection between carrots & Protestant orange: the Dutch royal family originally came from Orange in France, and Dutch carrot growers changed the colour of carrots to consistent orange to honour the royal family's, er, roots. The rest, as they say, is history.

Err, you sure about that France bit? The Nassau family were all born in what's now the Netherlands/Flanders/West Germany. The Nassau family goes all the way back to 12th Century, all around that part of the world.

Edit: Ok, the Nassau family inherited the title associated with the province in the 16th Century (William the silent), and gave it up early in the 18th Century in the Treaty of Utrecht.

That's a can of worms.. Mind you what isn't these days?

Today in parliament

https://videos.metro.co.uk/video/met/20 ... 537327.mp4

rolf_f

KingstonGraham wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

There is an irony that Brexiteers are regarded as having a misguided view of the importance of the UK, whilst Remainers automatically assume that the EU will keep giving us extensions because MPs at Westminster vote for them.
Why should it?

They may well have checked with the commission that they are likely to agree.

Also, without asking, you definitely are not going to get it, even if you don't assume it will be agreed.

Anybody with any sense, in the in Mainland Europe and here, knows that the only way that this isn't going to ramble on for years is a revocation of Brexit. And failing that the only way of minimising the next decade and more's worth of mess is a deal.
They can threaten to refuse an extension but unless they think there is no chance of a revocation or a deal then it is in everyones interest to put up with this crap we are inflicting on Europe. They know this.

tailwindhome

BBC Politics
@BBCPolitics
·
1m
Jeremy Corbyn promises another #Brexit referendum with a "credible option to Leave and the option to Remain", if Labour wins next election




Policy when they lose still unclear?

rick_chasey

Rick Chasey wrote:

Yes yes but the electorate collectively are ignorant.

We all know this. That is why it is a representative democracy, and things like referendums are advisory.

We are in an election campaign mode; the parliamentary shenanigans are just defining what the campaign will look like, and plainly the Tories have an advantage in that being the government they can dictate the battlegrounds for the campaign more easily.

I would view everything that is done through the lens of how it impacts the election; I believe that is now the motive behind most or all of the behaviour. We know the Tory & SNP lines; the labour/lib dems lines are not clear, though Lib Dems will be obvious and will cut through.

So it seems the Tories have successfully defined the debate as per above.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... 14879f1470

Corbyn says it is absurd for Boris Johnson to present himself as representing the people against parliament

If you're saying that mate, then it's already job done.

kingstongraham

Rolf F wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

There is an irony that Brexiteers are regarded as having a misguided view of the importance of the UK, whilst Remainers automatically assume that the EU will keep giving us extensions because MPs at Westminster vote for them.
Why should it?

They may well have checked with the commission that they are likely to agree.

Also, without asking, you definitely are not going to get it, even if you don't assume it will be agreed.

Anybody with any sense, in the in Mainland Europe and here, knows that the only way that this isn't going to ramble on for years is a revocation of Brexit. And failing that the only way of minimising the next decade and more's worth of mess is a deal.
They can threaten to refuse an extension but unless they think there is no chance of a revocation or a deal then it is in everyones interest to put up with this crap we are inflicting on Europe. They know this.

I do not share your optimism that with a revocation it will not also ramble on for years.

bompington

KingstonGraham wrote:

I do not share your optimism that with a revocation it will not also ramble on for years.

The only way that it will ramble on will be the cries of Betrayal of our Beloved Brexit. I honestly don't know how it will pan out, but assuming (and OK, it's probably not safe to) a second ref reversed the original decision, I can't really imagine more people going over to Leave afterwards*.
In all practical ways though - economy, trade, travel, etc - it will be back to (at least something like) normal.

Though I guess our relationship with our neighbours will take some fixing.


*I am a bit intrigued (and dismayed) at the number of people who claim to have voted Remain but have since argued for Leave: in some cases quite vehemently. It's pointless to speculate, but I wonder how different the narrative would have been if it wasn't for the quite large number of Remainers who seem to have bought the "Will of the People" nonsense.

I sometimes wonder it there isn't a bit of bandwagon-jumping going on here - people who just like to be on the winning side.
...and whether that might explain, for example, the type of forum poster who doesn't appear to have a lot of principles or arguments but always likes to think that by sophistry and swerving they have won the debate ;-)

rolf_f

KingstonGraham wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

There is an irony that Brexiteers are regarded as having a misguided view of the importance of the UK, whilst Remainers automatically assume that the EU will keep giving us extensions because MPs at Westminster vote for them.
Why should it?

They may well have checked with the commission that they are likely to agree.

Also, without asking, you definitely are not going to get it, even if you don't assume it will be agreed.

Anybody with any sense, in the in Mainland Europe and here, knows that the only way that this isn't going to ramble on for years is a revocation of Brexit. And failing that the only way of minimising the next decade and more's worth of mess is a deal.
They can threaten to refuse an extension but unless they think there is no chance of a revocation or a deal then it is in everyones interest to put up with this crap we are inflicting on Europe. They know this.

I do not share your optimism that with a revocation it will not also ramble on for years.

The fundamental difference between Remainer and Leaver is that Remainers tend to care a great deal about being in Europe whereas Leavers only think about it when the Daily Mail is winding them up about it (generalisation, I know...)

The point is that people have short memories and not leaving won't change anyones life from where it was before Cameron inflicted this on us. It's just maintaining status quo. And that isn't very exciting to people.

TheBigBean

TailWindHome wrote:

BBC Politics
@BBCPolitics
·
1m
Jeremy Corbyn promises another #Brexit referendum with a "credible option to Leave and the option to Remain", if Labour wins next election




Policy when they lose still unclear?

Does that mean the positions of all the parties are now clear?
Conservatives - deal/no-deal by a certain deadline
Labour - referendum deal/remain
Lib Dems/SNP/Greens* - revoke A50 to remain

rjsterry

Rick Chasey wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Yes yes but the electorate collectively are ignorant.

We all know this. That is why it is a representative democracy, and things like referendums are advisory.

We are in an election campaign mode; the parliamentary shenanigans are just defining what the campaign will look like, and plainly the Tories have an advantage in that being the government they can dictate the battlegrounds for the campaign more easily.

I would view everything that is done through the lens of how it impacts the election; I believe that is now the motive behind most or all of the behaviour. We know the Tory & SNP lines; the labour/lib dems lines are not clear, though Lib Dems will be obvious and will cut through.

So it seems the Tories have successfully defined the debate as per above.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... 14879f1470

Corbyn says it is absurd for Boris Johnson to present himself as representing the people against parliament

If you're saying that mate, then it's already job done.

I was interested to note that even George Osborne was pointing out that the idea that Corbyn is afraid of a general election is nonsense.